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Old 2013-07-22, 07:44   Link #1501
Rovert10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acer View Post
but Touman has faced armed people as terrorists in vol 17 and others, I would not say it is a victory for sure using weapons against him, but the best option, and I love those moments.
That's also a thing with Touma.
He actually thinks of how to approach the situation in the best manner possible. Rather than every other shounen hero that practically brute forces everything but Touma doesn't have that option.
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Old 2013-07-22, 07:45   Link #1502
Chaos2Frozen
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There was an interesting article recently in the German weekly newspaper "Die Zeit" about Heroes.

The author is the grandson of Christoph Probst, one of the members of White Rose, and he wrote, that nowadays "Heroes" are characterized as "Winners" or "Achivers" in accordance to the theory of Joseph Campbell's "The Hero with Thousand Faces", but in his opinion a hero is someone who gives everything he has for the sake of that he thinks is right without expecting anything in return.

And it is true, there are a lot of heroes especially in World War 2 who saved a lot of people, but they were punished for it instead of being rewarded.

So, what kind of hero is Touma? Is he the former one, because he always win, or actually the latter one, because his problems never stop and he never helped for profit?
If I understand this right, Kamijou can also be considered an Achiever in the sense that he has the results backing him up, adding to his mythical status.

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Originally Posted by Rovert10 View Post
It ain't hard to beat Touma at all really. Take a gun and point at head.
If it was that easy why couldn't Skill Out kill him?

Because of circumstances and outside factors right? Just the same- with the right circumstances anyone can take a gun and point at anyone's head.

EDIT: Heh, I just realized a funny thing- Accelerator did took a bullet to the head

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Originally Posted by Xero8420 View Post
And so, compare Touma with other protagonists in terms of the sense of justice.
Pfft, there's nothing impressive about his sense of justice.

I want to compare them with his Will to Act.
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Old 2013-07-22, 09:54   Link #1503
Rovert10
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That's because Touma doesn't charge in blindly like an idiot.
He actually ducks for cover and sneaks in preventing Skill Out from actually getting a good shot at him.

Should he ever fight someone who's better than him in either planning and using non-supernatural skills. Which he has aka Tsuchimikado.
He get's owned pretty quickly or you can be a Saint and brute force with pure physical strength.
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Old 2013-07-22, 10:28   Link #1504
Acer
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Touma vs Seria, That would be interesting, and maybe, just maybe it could happen, depending on how the threat of Touma for Kaizumi to be treated by Kamachi.
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Old 2013-07-22, 11:14   Link #1505
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Found this in another thread

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Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
On the other hand, Touma has not had a lot of character development himself. He always tries to get people to rely on him, but he won't rely on others. Touma ought to be moving in a similar arc towards realizing that he needs a heroine in his life who is matched well with him and can save him when he needs saving. (This is one of the reasons a lot of fanfiction has Touma actually call Mikoto and ask her for help with some problem, the fans instinctively realize that this is the important next step for Touma to develop properly).
I think that this is right on the money, If we think about the way Touma has been developing since the beginning of the NT volumes it makes a lot of sense that it's leading up to an arc that reflects his actions in the Sisters arc.

As we all know Touma is notorious for not asking for help, and all thoughout the LN volumes the one who's always trying to make him ask her for help is Mikoto, so I think that because of the way NT is developing an arc where he does ask her for help might come sooner or later, which when/if it happens the internet might blow up from the discussions resulting from it.
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Old 2013-07-22, 11:37   Link #1506
Acer
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but Touma has already asked for help a few volumes, take the vol 6 NT example with Cendrilion, and he even admits that he can do yourself is very little and so he will always need help, and vol 5 he says he has thought about asking your friends for help, but the question is would you put the lives of those you like in danger?

I think unnecessary a scene full of cries and tears of Touma for help for someone unstable and attacks first and then asks how Mikoto, when he has the most reliable people available.
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Old 2013-07-22, 11:39   Link #1507
Ilidsor
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Touma relies on others all the time though. Sure he doesn't go around asking people to risk their lives for him, but if someone offers to help he accepts it. He calls Misaka a couple of times to ask her for technical help too.

EDIT: Ninja'd
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Old 2013-07-22, 12:07   Link #1508
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but Touma has already asked for help a few volumes, take the vol 6 NT example with Cendrilion, and he even admits that he can do yourself is very little and so he will always need help, and vol 5 he says he has thought about asking your friends for help, but the question is would you put the lives of those you like in danger?

I think unnecessary a scene full of cries and tears of Touma for help for someone unstable and attacks first and then asks how Mikoto, when he has the most reliable people available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilidsor View Post
Touma relies on others all the time though. Sure he doesn't go around asking people to risk their lives for him, but if someone offers to help he accepts it. He calls Misaka a couple of times to ask her for technical help too.

EDIT: Ninja'd
He asks for help but not really, it's always mostly for info. What I mean is he hasn't yet had to do something that pushes him to a limit that really truly breaks him (difficult since he's a protagonist and hero) and makes him admit he needs to rely on someone elses help instead of just asking for help and still doing all the work just with more info.

p.s. NT1 - 7 has been a good beginning to this new side to Touma since he relied on more people than usual, except when he reverted back to his usual I'll do it myself way of thinking in NT. 4 (still was pretty awesome though). I actually like the LN a lot more like it's been in NT where he now has his own team to help him.
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Old 2013-07-22, 13:05   Link #1509
Ilidsor
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He asks for help but not really, it's always mostly for info. What I mean is he hasn't yet had to do something that pushes him to a limit that really truly breaks him (difficult since he's a protagonist and hero) and makes him admit he needs to rely on someone elses help instead of just asking for help and still doing all the work just with more info.
Aqua of the Back. That fight was exactly what you are describing.
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Old 2013-07-22, 13:40   Link #1510
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Aqua of the Back. That fight was exactly what you are describing.
But to me that fight with the Amakusa vs Aqua, was more like the Amakusa wanting to help Touma and him going to help those who wanted to help him, he never asked them for help. The NT volumes are more in line with what I said than the first part of the Light Novels.
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Old 2013-07-22, 17:46   Link #1511
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So, basically what we need is a situation, there Touma is incapicated and it is other people's moment to shine... Well, there was that situation in GB, but still even here Touma got to do the finish blow.

However, I think, he was really happy to see all bystander to be able to fight and his attack was basically just one of many... And he was the only one who dared to do a Fastball Special with one of the most powerful characters at the scene and to be honest, he has already got some experience in punching bitches back to senses, so...

That by the way is in my opinion another thing I like about Touma. He does evolve like other heroes, but it is not such a sudden process as usual for his type of hero.

He has become a little more tactial in using his enviroment and his allies as well as setting up his enemies. He can analyse and evade supernatural attacks better and he has discover how to make use of some side effects of the Imagine Breaker. We also now that he has a healing factor (at least for his right arm).

He has become better... without suddenly getting an additional power like the negation of cause or spell reflection or something like that.
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Old 2013-07-22, 18:28   Link #1512
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I don't think any future Kamijou development should be moving forward, but rather backward.

Childhood revelations please.
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Old 2013-07-22, 19:14   Link #1513
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You know what forget my first post the more I think about it the more I realize that the NT volumes focus exactly on this, since the Kamijou faction is now real and Touma does seem to be asking for more help then pre-NT Touma.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
I don't think any future Kamijou development should be moving forward, but rather backward.

Childhood revelations please.
I too want to know more about Toumas childhood and get clearity on how Imagine Breaker affected his childhood, but that would be more suited for an SS volume.
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Old 2013-07-22, 19:21   Link #1514
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Aqua of the Back. That fight was exactly what you are describing.
That wasn't a fight. "One-sided massacre" is a bit more accurate, and I'm still pissed off about Touma living through how much punishment he took.
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Old 2013-07-22, 19:24   Link #1515
Chaos2Frozen
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^Nanomachines son.
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Old 2013-07-22, 19:26   Link #1516
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^Nanomachines son.
Don't work too well against a guy that can collapse buildings with a single swing of a 5m rod of iron.
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Old 2013-07-22, 19:43   Link #1517
Chaos2Frozen
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Don't work too well against a guy that can collapse buildings with a single swing of a 5m rod of iron.
They harden against physical trauma
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Old 2013-07-22, 19:44   Link #1518
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Now who's the one with illu-- delusions?
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Old 2013-07-22, 19:51   Link #1519
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
^Nanomachines son.
Hey if Revolution can get away with it why not TAMNI

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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
Don't work too well against a guy that can collapse buildings with a single swing of a 5m rod of iron.
Well considering what Toumas survived (ex. a fight with Superman and riding what can be called an asteroid into the face of an angel into a freezing sea) i'll believe it
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Old 2013-07-22, 20:13   Link #1520
Chaos2Frozen
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Now who's the one with illu-- delusions?
Ahh! You don't believe me >_< !? Even though they both have cyborgs and psychics!?
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