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Old 2010-04-18, 15:10   Link #321
Ashaman
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
I doubt his redirection would work. First, temperture and internal energy are relative measures, not vectors. Second, even if Accel could block heat, he would have to redirect all of the heat, which would cause the air immediately around him to tun absolute zero from the lack of heat. Accel either has to redirect, or he doesn't, not inbetween. The heat isn't harmful like a flamethrower where it comes in direct contact; it's harmful because it affects the surrounding environment.

And I agree that Mikoto lacks the experience and mentality, but I think she isn't lacking in power. Had she kept her creativity from the Level Upper arc and had the killing intent like Accel and Kakine do, she could match them.
I thought Accel could regulate these things? Such as how much heat and gravity affect him. I don't think it is either allow or redirect, but that he can choose an inbetween state too. Oh well, even if i'm wrong, I still don't think that Mikato could win.

If she did do that heat the enviroment, Accel could either just blow the heat away on the wind. (Move wind and therefore heat that is in the air away as well as bringing in cooler air. This is a vector.

Plus she would have to block his attacks too, which is entirely possible I suppose.

Plus, she would have to keep up the temp change even if he moved without directly attacking him, even if he came directly after her. And no, Accel is faster than Mikoto, no questions asked. Her power can keep up, yes, but not her.

Iron attacks. Utter fail.

Electric attacks. Again, direct attacks would prove useless.

I just can't see her winning. Sure, holding her own for a little while, maybe. But an actual win? If she surprise attacked him, yeah
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Old 2010-04-18, 15:34   Link #322
tsunade666
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surprised attaked? with what? the filter wall is automatic 24/7 the only time its out is if his doing way beyond understanding computation like manipulating brain waves and electric pulse. Just like when he rescued LO.

And why and why always. People compare others to accel to begin with. Like his the standard of the esper and using him to measure the others. That guy is insanely strong that its bad to use him as comparison. Specially the current Accel that can use tactics,mental state, black wings and human emotion as his advantage.
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Old 2010-04-18, 15:44   Link #323
Ashaman
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Nah, I was talking about after Accel gets shot when I said that.

And yeah,you are right, Accel isn't exactly a good measuring stick.

I think Mikoto is strong, but I was just reacting to someone saying how affective tactic would be aginst Accel, though looking back on it, it was just a tactic that had been used on Accel.
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Old 2010-04-18, 16:38   Link #324
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
I'm sure aqua is stronger than accelerator. But not sure about the others unless his in black wings mode..
I'm not so sure. In his awakened state Accelerator appears to display abilities that far eclipse anything Kanzaki has shown us. And while I'm not caught up to the latest novels, the discussion from fans on 2ch in light of vol 20 has them regarding black wing Accelerator as easily surpassing even Aqua.

Accelerator is ridiculously strong, and unlike most characters in the series, he is getting even stronger.

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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
I doubt his redirection would work. First, temperature and internal energy are relative measures, not vectors.
Heat is a matter of molecular excitation. As such it is a scalar quantity and not a vector quantity. So, you would imagine that Accelerator would have no direct control over it, but Kamachi decided otherwise and flat out stated in vol 3 that he can affect it, so that's that.

Mikoto controls electromagnetism, and thus has an impossibly wide array of abilities at her fingertips. Kamachi keeps giving her new clever tricks, and he's barely scratched the surface of what she could be able to do. But virtually all electromagnetic interactions are vector quantities. Not only is Accelerator much stronger than Mikoto, but his ability is inherently a terrible match up for her. If she were the same and he were only a level 4, I'm still not sure she would win. It's that bad a match up.

Just for fun, I'd like it if Kamachi at some point had Mikoto do this between her fingertips - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyVTvtgm11o

She couldn't reproduce the bass of whatever music she decided to play (well she could, but then she'd probably get arrested for the damage that would cause) but it would still be an amusing way for her to listen to music.
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Old 2010-04-18, 16:44   Link #325
giorno
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Originally Posted by noobita View Post
I think that Mikoto Misaka have the power to rival other Lv5/6 user...
her power is the 3rd strongest in academy city. It is nevertheless way, way below the 2nd and 1st. So no, she doesn't have the power to rival kakine or accelerator, and she never will.

Of course, it's up to the author, and the author decided so...

Quote:
I doubt his redirection would work. First, temperture and internal energy are relative measures, not vectors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_...and_physics%29

he can redirect heat(just look at his battle with touma for reference)

as for taking oxygen away, there are a few problems with that, like the wind, the fact that mikoto would need oxygen too, the fact that accelerator can just jump to an area where there is oxygen(and he is really, really fast), not to mention just charge straight for mikoto

and in black wings mode, nothing mikoto can do has any chance of affecting him. period.
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Old 2010-04-18, 17:10   Link #326
tsunade666
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the two people above ^ ^ are right and I believe them. So can we stop now on matching pairs of Mikoto vs Accel.

Even if mikoto did plan on going to russia. But russia now is a war zone. Where the strongest magician gathers. I wonder on what can mikoto do to even with stand those who called gods and demi gods or even demon gods of magic side. And I'm not referring to the saints. To those who can trample easily the saints. Even if they are saints. In magic side. Their are just too many strong people.
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Old 2010-04-18, 17:22   Link #327
stillmissing
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
Even if mikoto did plan on going to russia. But russia now is a war zone. Where the strongest magician gathers. I wonder on what can mikoto do to even with stand those who called gods and demi gods or even demon gods of magic side. And I'm not referring to the saints. To those who can trample easily the saints. Even if they are saints. In magic side. Their are just too many strong people.
Spoiler for vol 20:
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Old 2010-04-18, 18:12   Link #328
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your also right their. But I'm not even sure on what magic lessa can do. If I remember it right The new light is a group of transporters like Oriana. And it would be good if they meet up but that wouldn't make much of a difference if touma is still targetting fianma. But mikoto can deal with the war machine that academy city sends on russia. The machines are weak against lightning attacks.
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Old 2010-04-18, 21:02   Link #329
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
your also right their. But I'm not even sure on what magic lessa can do. If I remember it right The new light is a group of transporters like Oriana. And it would be good if they meet up but that wouldn't make much of a difference if touma is still targetting fianma. But mikoto can deal with the war machine that academy city sends on russia. The machines are weak against lightning attacks.
hmm...so Mikoto can kill anyone inside a plane right?

Let see if Accel or Kakine board a plane, and Mikoto who's jump off the plane with parachute, summoned Thunderbolt to blow the plane up.....Accel can't fly even if he in Black wings mode, I dunno about Kakine, but to fall from..let's said it's around 150.000km.... above the surface, sure will kill him, isn't it?

lure the enemy to fly, then blow them up....sound like good idea I think
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Old 2010-04-18, 21:12   Link #330
Miraluka
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Wrong, guys you are forgeting the main point about Mikoto within Index series which is whenever she tries on her own to go against a main antagonist/faction she ends failing.
Against the level 6 project was almost killed two times and Touma saved the day; with the Tree Diagram's remants her best friend Kuroko was almost killed by Kuroko and Touma and Accel saved the day. If she tries to do something alone she will fail.

This time, again, went on her own to Russia dreaming to help Touma, but in this case she only has few alternatives:

1. Misha/Gabriel
2. Fiamma of the Right
3. Academy City's forces.

The two firsts she only deserves to be killed, at least Toma or Accelerator kicks in to save her, the third one sure she has chances to deal with them but means never getting involved with Touma's burdens once again like the previous volumes.
The others characters like Acqua or Shiage don't have any intention against her because they're already busy with their own burdens.


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Originally Posted by surerman View Post
hmm...so Mikoto can kill anyone inside a plane right?

Let see if Accel or Kakine board a plane, and Mikoto who's jump off the plane with parachute, summoned Thunderbolt to blow the plane up.....Accel can't fly even if he in Black wings mode, I dunno about Kakine, but to fall from..let's said it's around 150.000km.... above the surface, sure will kill him, isn't it?

lure the enemy to fly, then blow them up....sound like good idea I think
Accelerator will just reflect the reaction forces against the ground.
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Old 2010-04-18, 21:17   Link #331
surerman
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Accelerator will just reflect the reaction forces against the ground.
So he redirect his own vector against the ground? isn't it will kill himself?
okay ...let's stop, we start diver from Biri-biri to accelerator...let's move that discussion to Accel thread.

I'll upload To Aru Nyan Idekkuchu doujin (abot Mikoto become Golden Furred Fox girl which kept Index as weird Mini Cat for pet) to rapidshare.com tonight(or day???dunno this prison didn't have time indicator except the bell)
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Old 2010-04-18, 22:15   Link #332
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by surerman View Post
hmm...so Mikoto can kill anyone inside a plane right?

Let see if Accel or Kakine board a plane, and Mikoto who's jump off the plane with parachute, summoned Thunderbolt to blow the plane up.....Accel can't fly even if he in Black wings mode, I dunno about Kakine, but to fall from..let's said it's around 150.000km.... above the surface, sure will kill him, isn't it?

lure the enemy to fly, then blow them up....sound like good idea I think

Accelerator - In volume 8 after defeating Awaki, he shows that he can control his rate of descend to a gentle fall, and this is from building height.

Kakine - Well, if that illustration is anything to go by, the man can fly
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Old 2010-04-18, 23:24   Link #333
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by stillmissing View Post
Heat is a matter of molecular excitation. As such it is a scalar quantity and not a vector quantity. So, you would imagine that Accelerator would have no direct control over it, but Kamachi decided otherwise and flat out stated in vol 3 that he can affect it, so that's that.
Then Kihara Amata must be one broken person to throw off Accel's redirection ability like that >_>

There's just something... off about Accel's ability. He has the ability to redirect the kinetic energy of every gas molecule into one point to form plasma, yet, when the Sisters generate an air current with the windmills, Accel acts like he can't redirect the wind and attacks Touma like he has no other ranged options.

Mikoto just needs to be creative with her powers and throw off Accel's redirecting calculations. I think that if she had some killing intent, she would have a lot more options.
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Old 2010-04-18, 23:27   Link #334
tsunade666
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kakine has three pair of wings that makes him the only one who can fly but in the theory thread about how power works. Some proves that Accelerator can fly.

Mikoto can built up a charge of about 5 billion bolts and that's not small. But still if her opponents are ubber hax then that wouldn't help. But against some freaking huge robot and above speed of sound jet fighters and also automaton killer bots. Misaka can easily fry them out.

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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Then Kihara Amata must be one broken person to throw off Accel's redirection ability like that >_>

There's just something... off about Accel's ability. He has the ability to redirect the kinetic energy of every gas molecule into one point to form plasma, yet, when the Sisters generate an air current with the windmills, Accel acts like he can't redirect the wind and attacks Touma like he has no other ranged options.

Mikoto just needs to be creative with her powers and throw off Accel's redirecting calculations. I think that if she had some killing intent, she would have a lot more options.
Kihara is the scientist in charge of accelerator's development so he knows every bit of info on that guy. Plus his some kind of anroid or at least his arm isn't human to me.

About that battle with accel and touma. The atmosphere is windy and all is fine but with the air current being control. Its not like Accel can't control it but the air current is being change again and again. Its like this..... accel makes a calculation for the air flow but the sisters change it and when he change it again the sisters change it AGAIN! that's why he said that "is their a wind master around" because his calculation are being thrown off balance. Then he realized the ability of the sisters. So he stop his futile attempt and try to kill first the original and the clone their and after it to kill Touma.
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Old 2010-04-18, 23:41   Link #335
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I'm pretty sure all the Sisters did was turn on all the windmills. There was nothing to indicate that they varied the windmill rotation speed or direction.
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Old 2010-04-18, 23:47   Link #336
Miraluka
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The more complex is the calculatation the more loopholes will have.
Kihara already appointed this when broke Accelerator wind control just using a music tone. Even worse Accelerator during that time only had less than a half of his original powers.
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Old 2010-04-18, 23:51   Link #337
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That is why Evil Misaka should make her introduction. The good ole Misaka is just not good. She holding back way too much (sub-consciously or not) to use her power.

Perhaps we might actually learn the true extent of her power if she show no hesitation to kill and get creative.
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Old 2010-04-19, 00:03   Link #338
tsunade666
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but the evil misaka or misaka worst are only level 4 though they are quite sexy and appealing than mikoto which is kinda childish in adults eyes.

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I'm pretty sure all the Sisters did was turn on all the windmills. There was nothing to indicate that they varied the windmill rotation speed or direction.
Its can be varied if its ben use wisely. Plus the wind current is already strong on that day and its easily to be manipulated if you direct it on the opposite side and with tons of windmilsl in the city. If you open one then use the other alternately. Well its up to the plot and all but its still possible to be control by the sisters plus the malcalculation on accel which shouldn't occur on his best state is nearly impossible because that is way easier than calculating the wind current than in atomic level.

EDIT:

after rereading it it looks like accel only attempt to try it once to redo it but his calculations are wrong and immediately understand that the atmosphere's air current are not natural then he understand that someone is blowing the wind on the opposite direction. Then he decide to kill mikoto and imouto.... that psycho path didn't even recalculate it or even try to readjust his calculation. His a real psycho that will just go berserk.
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Old 2010-04-19, 00:17   Link #339
noobita
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but the evil misaka or misaka worst are only level 4 though they are quite sexy and appealing than mikoto which is kinda childish in adults eyes.
Who cares about those inferior clone.

We want the Original Lv5 Misaka become Lv5 Evil Misaka to wreck havor the world. Even if she still unable to complete with Accel or other super being in her evil state, it is still fun to see evil Misaka to destroy stuff and abuse her power.

By the way, I read a lot of comment about Misaka Worst being creative to use her power..what had she done to get this kind of recognition?
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Old 2010-04-19, 00:21   Link #340
Miraluka
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Perhaps we might actually learn the true extent of her power if she show no hesitation to kill and get creative.
I'm sure she already did it against Touma, Accelerator and the AIM burst, but just happens that none of them were injured by her. Even Mikoto herlsef was shocked when tought about this against the first two.

With Touma:
Mikoto: Why I can't get a hit! Whats wrong with this guy?
With Accelerator: She was like WTF! OMG!, etc, etc, etc.
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