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Old 2013-09-30, 19:02   Link #1301
Ilidsor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dniv View Post
I'll admit that before I saw it with subtitles I didn't understand a lot of what was going on compared to my current understanding of things.
I only ever watch anime with subtitles.
Quote:
By Idiot I meant like a Certain Idiot... I didn't mean like a literal idiot. Idealistic type of idiot rather than a dumb type of idiot. Kamijou is considered an idiot by her for the exact same reason...
Then let me change my earlier comment to being idealistic doesn't make you an idiot.

Quote:
NT 7...
Spoiler:
Those aren't even slight related. That wasn't a hostage situation, and he wasn't giving the villain the power to kill himself. There was no risk to any innocent lives.

Quote:
There are others that aren't as extreme though.
Please, tell me them. I literally can't think of a single thing.

Quote:
I feel like Kamachi helped create a lot of the major plot-points while how they were executed were up to the staff. However, I feel like Mikoto wanting to emulate Kamijou's idealism is a major plot point.
But you don't have any proof of that do you? You're just guessing he had something to do with it.
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Old 2013-09-30, 19:25   Link #1302
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dniv View Post
I think the point is this: Mikoto does insane things to protect the people she likes. She isn't smart. She's an idiot. It's the same, I'll sacrifice myself for you all deal. I realize that right after that later, she said there was an idiot who would sacrifice herself when talking to Aritomi, but in the end she had absolutely no choice. In other words, she's like Touma. What would he have done? She's trying to be him. I thought that was obvious... :__:



This reinforces my point. This is why she ate the chocolate. This is also why she took the chemical. Touma is the one who made her feel like that. Not to mention there's the whole, maybe I'm only popular because I have the title Railgun... sounds suspiciously comparable to
Spoiler:
Also,

In the end, two things are obvious to me now. :__: 1. Kami-yan disease is spreading to other protagonists. 2. Mikoto definitely took what Kamijou said to her to heart and is living by it now. This resolves that question in my opinion mainly because Mikoto chooses to believe in it. That's exactly what Kamijou does. It really isn't any different.

Since the basis for her actions are Kamijou's I have even more reason to believe Kamachi intended for this to happen.
Well, at least you're taking a different approach. You're not saying that Mikoto's actions are intellectually defensible. You're saying that she was so deeply inspired by Touma's self-sacrificing heroism that she now practically welcomes high-risk scenarios as a way for her to be heroic the way he was.

Hhmmmm... That's an interesting take on her character, at least. There is a certain charm and emotional poignancy to it. Thank you for sharing it.

After reading your take, I do think that this is what Episode 22 was probably aiming for, but the execution could have been a bit better.

I don't mind Mikoto taking risks, and being willing to endanger herself to help others. This is why I could roll with her eating Telestina's candy (that was actually an almost badass hero moment, really). But there should be limits here. I'd rather Mikoto not come off as the female equivalent of a very bull-headed shounen male lead that throws caution to the wind by always going with his gut (without first consulting his brain). I'd like her to be a bit smarter than that.
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Old 2013-09-30, 19:39   Link #1303
dniv
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Originally Posted by Ilidsor View Post
I only ever watch anime with subtitles.


Then let me change my earlier comment to being idealistic doesn't make you an idiot.



Those aren't even slighty related. That wasn't a hostage situation, and he wasn't giving the villain the power to kill himself. There was no risk to any innocent lives.



Please, tell me them. I literally can't think of a single thing.



But you don't have any proof of that do you? You're just guessing he had something to do with it.
Ok. Just making sure. I will say though that re-watching it with subtitles multiple times helped me as well...

What?
Spoiler for NT 7:


The comparison is that Mikoto needs to protect Febri and is therefore willing to believe that the bad guy isn't completely evil, just disenfranchised or something, and will keep his word partly because she's important as the railgun to the city and has that protection in a way and will keep his word because he isn't a ruthless killer. She kind of implied that even Accelerator wasn't a ruthless killer... in episode 24...


Ok fine. That may be true. I was somewhat BS-ing there (That was the one example I could come up with, but since the time Kamachi wrote the material for both is around the same time, I would see why this example would be a good one...)


I didn't mean an idealist was an idiot, even though it can be kind of true at times... I meant that she was being in the idiot in the sense that she was believing in the good of other people, and that since all she could do to save febri at that point in time from her point of view was to let the injection happen and to involve her friends and to trust Terestina, she did it. It's not about being smart, it's about not having any other choices. What I mean by not having other choices isn't about saying that I'm doomed to give up, what I mean by not having other choices is about rather trying her best to save her friend even if it meant taking the injection.

Furthermore, Touma didn't think Mikoto was evil, because she was his friend he immediately thought that she was the good guy even though there was no reason to do this. Why did he believe in her, because he was her friend. It wasn't because of anything except for the fact that he believes in the good of humanity even against overwhelming evidence. This has come up time and time again, so don't try to say that isn't true. :__: That's part of my point. This is why Mikoto can suddenly believe that this guy won't kill her and will stay true to his word. How else is she supposed to save Febri in this situation?

Zaarael told us Js06 said that Kamachi provided a lot of the major story details for this arc.

Furthermore, let me give you some more implications as to why I believe this arc was written by Kamachi.

Let's list a long list of different types of evidence that I found.

Spoiler for Evidence that Silent Party was written by Kamachi (other than the fact that the name for the arc was evidently constructed by him) lolol:


THAT makes me think Kamachi must have supplied a lot of these details, because these important themes mentioned were highlighted in a way that kind of made it clear they weren't accidents.

This is why I think Kamachi was actively involved in writing this arc...

@Triple_R

Thanks for that. I guess I should be a little more careful in saying this is only my opinion But yes, this was what I thought they were going for the entire time after I saw it with subtitles... and it's kind of why I didn't just assume it was poorly written. I do agree though that it probably could have been executed at least somewhat better.

Last edited by dniv; 2013-09-30 at 19:50.
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Old 2013-09-30, 19:54   Link #1304
Miraluka
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Whaat!?

Wtf, the situations are very diametral opposite. Touma FORCED Rensa to save Yakumi, he never give her the chance to let her kill himself.
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Old 2013-09-30, 19:57   Link #1305
dniv
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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Whaat!?

Wtf, the situations are very diametral opposite. Touma FORCED Rensa to save Yakumi.
I have to go to a class in like 10 minutes... but anyway... MY POINT:
Spoiler for NT 7:
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Old 2013-09-30, 21:01   Link #1306
Ilidsor
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Originally Posted by dniv View Post
Ok. Just making sure. I will say though that re-watching it with subtitles multiple times helped me as well...

What?
Spoiler for NT 7:


The comparison is that Mikoto needs to protect Febri and is therefore willing to believe that the bad guy isn't completely evil, just disenfranchised or something, and will keep his word partly because she's important as the railgun to the city and has that protection in a way and will keep his word because he isn't a ruthless killer. She kind of implied that even Accelerator wasn't a ruthless killer... in episode 24...
Trusting in the inherent goodness of humanity doesn't mean just pretending the other person won't do something bad. Sure Touma believes everyone has their own rational and that if they need help he will still save them, but he doesn't just trust them to do the right thing, he punches them out to save people and then lets them try and sort themselves out later.


Quote:
I didn't mean an idealist was an idiot, even though it can be kind of true at times... I meant that she was being in the idiot in the sense that she was believing in the good of other people, and that since all she could do to save febri at that point in time from her point of view was to let the injection happen and to involve her friends and to trust Terestina, she did it. It's not about being smart, it's about not having any other choices. What I mean by not having other choices isn't about saying that I'm doomed to give up, what I mean by not having other choices is about rather trying her best to save her friend even if it meant taking the injection.

Furthermore, Touma didn't think Mikoto was evil, because she was his friend he immediately thought that she was the good guy even though there was no reason to do this. Why did he believe in her, because he was her friend. It wasn't because of anything except for the fact that he believes in the good of humanity even against overwhelming evidence. This has come up time and time again, so don't try to say that isn't true. :__: That's part of my point. This is why Mikoto can suddenly believe that this guy won't kill her and will stay true to his word. How else is she supposed to save Febri in this situation?
Aritomi had tried to kill her before, and had already expressed he didn't give a damn about Febri's life. Believing people are good only goes so far. When has anyone in this entire series ever decided to just sit down and trust the villains will do the right thing instead of fighting them?

Quote:
Zaarael told us Js06 said that Kamachi provided a lot of the major story details for this arc.
Yes but giving major plot details doesn't mean he was involved in the entire script.

Quote:
Furthermore, let me give you some more implications as to why I believe this arc was written by Kamachi.

Let's list a long list of different types of evidence that I found.

Spoiler for Evidence that Silent Party was written by Kamachi (other than the fact that the name for the arc was evidently constructed by him) lolol:
Spoiler for Length:


*deep breath*

All of this is nothing but at best circumstantial evidence that ignores all of the very un-Kamachi things that happened. Let me make a list of my own

Spoiler for My list:


All of this points to Kamachi having just given the key points of the arc. I get that you're trying to like the arc but that doesn't mean you should just pretend all of the bad stuff didn't happen and everything was planned. It is what it is.

God that was a lot of writing for a single post.
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Old 2013-10-01, 09:14   Link #1307
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Originally Posted by dniv View Post
Furthermore, Touma didn't think Mikoto was evil, because she was his friend he immediately thought that she was the good guy even though there was no reason to do this. Why did he believe in her, because he was her friend. It wasn't because of anything except for the fact that he believes in the good of humanity even against overwhelming evidence. This has come up time and time again, so don't try to say that isn't true. :__: That's part of my point. This is why Mikoto can suddenly believe that this guy won't kill her and will stay true to his word. How else is she supposed to save Febri in this situation?
I don't really know how you can relate trusting a friend with trusting someone who has already tried to kill you and a harmless little girl a few times before. That's really not the same thing. At all. As explained before she had a lot of other options to save Febri (for example, using the speed she showed in the last episode or using magnetism to pull him towards her), she just didn't do it because the plot didn't allow her to end the arc there aka Plot Stupidity.

Quote:
Zaarael told us Js06 said that Kamachi provided a lot of the major story details for this arc.
Providing a rough outline of the arc doesn't equal writing the arc.

Quote:
Furthermore, let me give you some more implications as to why I believe this arc was written by Kamachi.

Let's list a long list of different types of evidence that I found.

Spoiler for Evidence that Silent Party was written by Kamachi (other than the fact that the name for the arc was evidently constructed by him) lolol:
My answers to this:
Spoiler for Long list:


Dniv, instead of posting more arguments first why don't you try to explain why do you think ours are wrong (one by one please, easy with the walls of text) and we can start from there
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Old 2013-10-06, 20:24   Link #1308
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Eh, it's not really a matter of liking or disliking her. Misaka is the only character who's had that many scenes devoted solely to her relationship with Touma (or lack thereof). I just don't think Kamachi put all those scenes out there without an intent to use them.

Should probably take this discussion to the Misaka thread if anyone wants to continue it though.
Exactly how I feel, why have all of that development between them to just forget it and before someone mentions it no, Touma did not ditch Misaka, in NT.3 Touma himself says that he doesn't want someone who cares about him to that extent to get mixed up, not in those words but he says so, and no the crossover is not cannon.
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Old 2013-10-06, 20:33   Link #1309
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Exactly how I feel, why have all of that development between them to just forget it and before someone mentions it no, Touma did not ditch Misaka, in NT.3 Touma himself says that he doesn't want someone who cares about him to that extent to get mixed up, not in those words but he says so, and no the crossover is not cannon.
the crossover was just for fun, plus what was the scene the made few fans believed it wasn't going to happen this pairing?
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Old 2013-10-06, 22:01   Link #1310
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Crossover was comedic.
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Old 2013-10-06, 22:30   Link #1311
ACertainStark
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Fans on either side will pick point(s) and use that, obviously. Especially evident in shipping wars.

Plus, picking on each other, lol.

In regards to the crossover, I was happy he used specifically Touma and Mikoto for it and not someone else. That's how I saw it.
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Old 2013-10-06, 23:48   Link #1312
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Yeah, I am glad it had Mikoto and Touma in it.

I wonder if it depicts something~~~?
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Old 2014-05-01, 14:32   Link #1313
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Yeah, I am glad it had Mikoto and Touma in it.

I wonder if it depicts something~~~?
Its called pandering to shippers who are into the series for such reasons. Mikoto has feelings for him, and? Touma doesn't has any for her, thus the most popular one sided relationship of all time I've seen so far.

@ACertainStark
Because she sells, she is a marketing figure obviously, it doesn't matters if it's comedic, at the end, the characters aren't out of themselves and talk what they would within the series, it's been done for Kamachi for a reason, I find contradictory to take Narita's SS as canon but then dismiss one Kamachi himself wrote.
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Old 2014-05-01, 15:48   Link #1314
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I don't know why you are replying to months old posts but enjoy lol.

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Originally Posted by Ruizari View Post
Happy Birthday Misaka Mikoto!(May 2)

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Old 2014-05-01, 15:52   Link #1315
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Well, the subforum is pretty much dead (need to add some fuel in the fire).
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Old 2014-05-01, 15:55   Link #1316
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^^^^technically It's not her birthday sure tomorrow may be may 2nd, but in the story the timeline isn't even pass December.
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Old 2014-05-01, 15:56   Link #1317
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Btw, there is an image thread for that, don't let it go to the oblivion.
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Old 2014-05-01, 16:52   Link #1318
ACertainStark
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Well, the subforum is pretty much dead (need to add some fuel in the fire).
That's so true.

And yeah whoops.

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^^^^technically It's not her birthday sure tomorrow may be may 2nd, but in the story the timeline isn't even pass December.
May 2nd in Japan though!
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Old 2014-05-02, 13:01   Link #1319
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This thread is too dead on her Birthday.

Cheer up guys.
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Old 2014-05-02, 15:07   Link #1320
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Today is Mikoto's Birthday.
Happy Birthday, Mikoto-chan!
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