AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > To Aru Kagaku no Railgun

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-12-05, 23:45   Link #161
tsunade666
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
She did fly once if I remember it right. But not really fly just jump high. High enough to reach the clouds... ( I think ) Though she's really beautiful their like a fairy. A wings made up of electricity.
tsunade666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-06, 05:11   Link #162
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDo View Post
For the sake of argument, "single ability" was never defined.
They are probably marked by what espers have shown to do, and these data are recorded in the database.
It just happens that most of the espers seem only to be able to control one entity.

I'm sure all the Electromasters are capable of inducing both magnetic and electric fields.


In this case, "dual skill" would just mean that you are capable of performing tasks contained by multiple abilities stored in the database.
Now, it's never stated whether there exists a machine to identify your power by examining your AIM.
This is important, because the person, who seems to have multiple abilities, might have a new ability that just seems to be a combination of the other two.
One poor example is that there are multiple classifications of teleporting, and some completely encompass others.
/shrugs
It's pretty obvious that what they mean with dual skill is two abilities that differ completely. For example, Mikoto is not going to be able to throw around fire, because her power is electro-based. Anything that has to do with electricity tough, is fair game for her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
Kinda contradicted by the mandatory secondary powers, though, and the number of things only really supported by the Schrodinger theorem.

Probably better and more accurate to say that psychics can only use one category of ability, though that category might include/expand to include a number of different things. (Electro-kinesis AND electro-senses, for example.)
Mandatory secondary powers is a trope, created by the same failure to suspend disbelief that made people go "but this is scientifically impossible" so it's not really a valid point in the 'one power' argument. You're not supposed to wonder why that guy who's lifting a building doesn't get hammered into the ground by the weight, you're supposed to go "He's lifting a building!?"
__________________
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-06, 09:11   Link #163
Dean_the_Young
Has a life IRL
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Somewhere in the Anglo-Saxon Sphere
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Mandatory secondary powers is a trope, created by the same failure to suspend disbelief that made people go "but this is scientifically impossible" so it's not really a valid point in the 'one power' argument. You're not supposed to wonder why that guy who's lifting a building doesn't get hammered into the ground by the weight, you're supposed to go "He's lifting a building!?"
That might be fair for most series, but Index opens itself up when it plays the 'look at what everything my power can do by extension' card. As Index does put deliberate effort into defining the limits of powers, and then goes to show they can be manipulated in that scope to do any number of impressive things, violations of its own rules are fit to be noticed. Generally they just fall under the Schrodinger rule, or rule of cool, excuses.

To Aru opens itself in part because it's esper powers lay claim to be scientific in all other regards. It's a major theme of the series: when Mikoto launches that first railgun, we are given a description of how exactly it's supposed to work...

And then the result then looks nothing like a railgun, and later opens the railgun-Accerlerator I-beam paradox...

So when To Aru lays claim and validation of effects to science, but then does bad science, it's less supsension of disbelief and more 'it doesn't work like that.'
Dean_the_Young is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-06, 15:18   Link #164
aldw
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
That might be fair for most series, but Index opens itself up when it plays the 'look at what everything my power can do by extension' card. As Index does put deliberate effort into defining the limits of powers, and then goes to show they can be manipulated in that scope to do any number of impressive things, violations of its own rules are fit to be noticed. Generally they just fall under the Schrodinger rule, or rule of cool, excuses.

To Aru opens itself in part because it's esper powers lay claim to be scientific in all other regards. It's a major theme of the series: when Mikoto launches that first railgun, we are given a description of how exactly it's supposed to work...

And then the result then looks nothing like a railgun, and later opens the railgun-Accerlerator I-beam paradox...

So when To Aru lays claim and validation of effects to science, but then does bad science, it's less supsension of disbelief and more 'it doesn't work like that.'
The same could be said of many other systems besides the science-esper concept, even in Nasuverse for instance the Rule of cool often supersedes the rules that Nasu uses for his magic system/cosmology, so I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt for an engrossing story.
aldw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-07, 06:56   Link #165
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
That might be fair for most series, but Index opens itself up when it plays the 'look at what everything my power can do by extension' card. As Index does put deliberate effort into defining the limits of powers, and then goes to show they can be manipulated in that scope to do any number of impressive things, violations of its own rules are fit to be noticed. Generally they just fall under the Schrodinger rule, or rule of cool, excuses.

To Aru opens itself in part because it's esper powers lay claim to be scientific in all other regards. It's a major theme of the series: when Mikoto launches that first railgun, we are given a description of how exactly it's supposed to work...

And then the result then looks nothing like a railgun, and later opens the railgun-Accerlerator I-beam paradox...

So when To Aru lays claim and validation of effects to science, but then does bad science, it's less supsension of disbelief and more 'it doesn't work like that.'
Merely saying 'it doesn't work like that' is already failing suspension of disbelief. It differs per person how far one is willing to suspend his disbelief. Having knowledge in the field makes it easier to fail to suspend, but not impossible. For example and archaeologist couldn't possibly watch Indiana Jones without the thought "... That's not how archaeologists work" running through his head at least once. However, whether that person shrugs it off and continues to enjoy the movie, or allow that thought to plague him constantly decides how far he is suspending his disbelief.

Back to mandatory secondary powers though, they once again don't apply to the To Aruverse. Taking an example from the Kuroko thread, you argued that Kuroko is able to teleport gases because they are, in essence, solids. However, this means that Kuroko could technically teleport anything around her, since she is technically touching everything. Yet, she can't, and it is repeatedly shown and even stated that she needs to touch things to teleport them. This is a clear case of over analysis on the same level as wondering why that bad guy with the wind powers doesn't just make the lungs of the hero explode.

Mandatory secondary powers are over analysis, and the To Aruverse doesn't use them. What they do use is optional secondary powers, such as Mikoto controlling lightning also meaning she can control magnetism. However these, like any powers, are controlled by rule of cool. Not science.
__________________
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-07, 08:05   Link #166
Dean_the_Young
Has a life IRL
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Somewhere in the Anglo-Saxon Sphere
Quote:
Originally Posted by aldw View Post
The same could be said of many other systems besides the science-esper concept, even in Nasuverse for instance the Rule of cool often supersedes the rules that Nasu uses for his magic system/cosmology, so I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt for an engrossing story.
Why does it need a benefit of a doubt? Rool of Cool is a style choice, not a stigma. Recognizing it is about as damning as noting that someone is a red-head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Merely saying 'it doesn't work like that' is already failing suspension of disbelief. It differs per person how far one is willing to suspend his disbelief. Having knowledge in the field makes it easier to fail to suspend, but not impossible. For example and archaeologist couldn't possibly watch Indiana Jones without the thought "... That's not how archaeologists work" running through his head at least once. However, whether that person shrugs it off and continues to enjoy the movie, or allow that thought to plague him constantly decides how far he is suspending his disbelief.
Sure... as long as the movie makes no pretensions. And it doesn't, really. But if Indy were to lecture the audience about how an archelogical expedition were done, and it was completely wrong, complaints about it are valid: it would have broken the


Quote:
Back to mandatory secondary powers though, they once again don't apply to the To Aruverse. Taking an example from the Kuroko thread, you argued that Kuroko is able to teleport gases because they are, in essence, solids. However, this means that Kuroko could technically teleport anything around her, since she is technically touching everything. Yet, she can't, and it is repeatedly shown and even stated that she needs to touch things to teleport them. This is a clear case of over analysis on the same level as wondering why that bad guy with the wind powers doesn't just make the lungs of the hero explode.
Nothing against having proximity and weight limits, which she does, or volume limits either. Nothing at all in Index implies that she can't teleport gas (and really, the only sensible way to do that would be in a container of some sort).


Quote:
Mandatory secondary powers are over analysis, and the To Aruverse doesn't use them. What they do use is optional secondary powers, such as Mikoto controlling lightning also meaning she can control magnetism. However these, like any powers, are controlled by rule of cool. Not science.
To Aru is over-analysis of main powers. That's where the optional secondary powers come from. But those primary powers don't work effectively without mandatory secondary powers in the first place.

Mandatory secondary powers are a requirement of the entire super-power genre as a whole, and To Aru is no different.
Dean_the_Young is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-07, 10:19   Link #167
Miraluka
18 forever
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 24
Is pseudo-science since the series started in the vol.1 of the light novels but I have to say that that pseudo-science made the Toaruverse more interesting.
__________________
Love songs for the genuinely cunning.
Miraluka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-07, 18:31   Link #168
aldw
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Quote:
Why does it need a benefit of a doubt? Rool of Cool is a style choice, not a stigma. Recognizing it is about as damning as noting that someone is a red-head.
I normally prefer strong consistency in stories, but if something helps move the story and is cool despite strange inconsistencies, I can roll with it.
aldw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-08, 00:09   Link #169
Dark Paladin X
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Age: 24
Hmmm..noting that Misaka Mikoto is a tsundere (as I watched some of the episodes of To Aru Majutsu no Index and even TV Tropes say this), it would have been more interesting if the Queen of Tsundere (Rie Kugimiya) voice Misaka Mikoto. But comparing to another tsundere Nagi Sanzen'in from Hayate the Combat Butler, I find them to both equally tsundere.

Bad sadly, there isn't really a English dub equivalent to Rie Kugimiya (mostly because English voice acting tends to be less typecasted and/or "pigeon-holed"). If I were to choose who should voice Misaka Mikoto, I'd pick Tara Strong (same with Nagi Sanzen'in and Taiga Aisaka from Toradora!). I can "see" a bit of tsun in Tara Strong's voice acting.
Dark Paladin X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-08, 11:42   Link #170
hinakatbklyn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
The closest voice to Rie Kugimiya dub wise is from a company that left the dubbing business (ADV). Hilary Haag.

But I know exactly who would dub Misaka mikoto (and touma for that matter) if there is an english dub.
Spoiler for Different series:
I think Luci Christian and Chris Patton since their company is still working.

(Just realized this could also go in voice actor discussion)

Last edited by hinakatbklyn; 2009-12-08 at 12:01. Reason: additional comment / different topic
hinakatbklyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-11, 22:26   Link #171
dahak
Utu Class Planetoid
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Reading, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Biribiri is a single body thus we treat her as a SINGULAR closed circuit.
Except we know she can generate electro-magnetic fields centered at a range of at least 50m from herself. She doesn't have to emit electricty directly [Since she can control EM field intensities at any location within her AIM field.]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Her sensing of fields is probably limited because of the large electric current passing through her body that generates an uber magnetic force in close proximity, resulting in the other interfering electric or magnetic forces seem negligible in terms of resultant forces.
Other way round apparently. She can sense people moving around by their effect on a low level em field she emits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
... I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, but Mikoto explicitly stated that no psychic can have more than one ability.
Spoiler for Mikoto is wrong.:
dahak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-12, 05:01   Link #172
HyperCube
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Quote:
Except we know she can generate electro-magnetic fields centered at a range of at least 50m from herself. She doesn't have to emit electricty directly [Since she can control EM field intensities at any location within her AIM field.]
Generating electro-magnetic fields at a range of 50m means that she can electrocute anything withing 50m without even moving her finger (she just have to produce electricity within the target's body,which means she can use railgun without touching anything..).
I think 50m is really too much,maybe 5m?

Quote:
Her sensing of fields is probably limited because of the large electric current passing through her body that generates an uber magnetic force in close proximity, resulting in the other interfering electric or magnetic forces seem negligible in terms of resultant forces
Umm,if she can produce magnetic force then she will just pull any object with strong magnetic attraction to her,and desorientate any machine with magnetic captors within her range.
And i still don't understand how she can control magnetism x(.
HyperCube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-12, 23:31   Link #173
LotionExplosion
is in Despair
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: California
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperCube View Post
Generating electro-magnetic fields at a range of 50m means that she can electrocute anything withing 50m without even moving her finger (she just have to produce electricity within the target's body,which means she can use railgun without touching anything..).
I think 50m is really too much,maybe 5m?


Umm,if she can produce magnetic force then she will just pull any object with strong magnetic attraction to her,and desorientate any machine with magnetic captors within her range.
And i still don't understand how she can control magnetism x(.
Didn't she say that in an eariler episode that she could control it with Iron or Steel properties, through magnetism through her electric abilities? (Wait.. did that make sense? My Engrish isn't very good)

What Really bugs me is that Biri Biri can do this, but Sasuke can't do shit!
I expect that Misaka will do a Chidori sooner or later!
LotionExplosion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-13, 00:09   Link #174
surerman
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Killers Special Mobile Prison
Send a message via Yahoo to surerman
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotionExplosion View Post
Didn't she say that in an eariler episode that she could control it with Iron or Steel properties, through magnetism through her electric abilities? (Wait.. did that make sense? My Engrish isn't very good)

What Really bugs me is that Biri Biri can do this, but Sasuke can't do shit!
I expect that Misaka will do a Chidori sooner or later!
But she is a girl isn't it?, oh! wait! wrong series! I think you talk about Chidori Kaname, but it look like you talk about Chidori moves from Narutard verse

Biri-biri can control electricity and magnetism through electricity.
Like if you coiling a nail with metal wire than give the wire some power, the nail will become a magnet instantly,
Biri-biri as Electro master use same technique to manipulate iron sand and any other things around her that can act as conductor for her electric power.

If she rose to level 6 Im sure she will be like Magneto from X-Men, capable to flight with Magnetism Ball covered her.
surerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-13, 03:26   Link #175
tsunade666
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
PLEASE DON'T TALK ABOUT THE EMO KING SASUKE HERE! I HATE THAT GUY! SUPER!

Actually biribri can already do the flight iron ball thing if you consider the current manga events. She just use a iron block to block an explosion on short range. But maybe unlike magneto its tiring for her to use it. In the side story her daily attacks on the factory tires her tremendously unlike that magneto guy with helmet. Its like a gentle breeze and his range is big to utterly magnetize a iron bridge.
tsunade666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-13, 05:13   Link #176
HyperCube
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Quote:
Like if you coiling a nail with metal wire than give the wire some power, the nail will become a magnet instantly,
Biri-biri as Electro master use same technique to manipulate iron sand and any other things around her that can act as conductor for her electric power.
I know that,i think you are talking about the auto-induction thing.But even if she can produce magnetism,she can't control it at will like a sort of telekinesis,that is what is not making sense for me.
HyperCube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-13, 07:33   Link #177
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by surerman View Post
But she is a girl isn't it?, oh! wait! wrong series! I think you talk about Chidori Kaname, but it look like you talk about Chidori moves from Narutard verse.
She could put on a white lolita costume, wield a flail, summon the granddaughter of the Greek Sun god while casting Chidori. Now that is a real Chidori.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-13, 07:52   Link #178
tsunade666
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
saintessheart..... I can't picture what you meant with it............... loli costume? biribri? summon? its turning into a magical girl.
tsunade666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-13, 08:13   Link #179
surerman
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Killers Special Mobile Prison
Send a message via Yahoo to surerman
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperCube View Post
I know that,i think you are talking about the auto-induction thing.But even if she can produce magnetism,she can't control it at will like a sort of telekinesis,that is what is not making sense for me.
why not?,
hmm..it's easier to explain it with a picture, but I must stole some scanner to do it

an example:
If you read To aru Kagaku, in chapter where she fought the multiple-ability scientist bitch, she stand vertically on metal bridge to avoid some attack, she perform simple magnetism to her legs, so only her shoes stick to it's surface and not her whole body.

"Electro Master" not something to bluff title you know?

another example:
remember how she can turn her iron sand blade to a flock of sands that fly in the air to attack touma?, she can use each sand particle to manipulate magnetism to each other. Because it,s so small we can't see it, so it's look like she perform something without any medium

One tiny iron sands particle that fly in the air can be used as negative or positive polar by her electricity and pull or push other iron sands particle to form or deform something as she wish (like how she change her iron sands blade to a whip when fight Touma)

Utilizing the sand particle natural light weight, she can form an iron sands blade/ spear that falling from above head to her enemy easily as long as the iron sands available in the air (which she can make by burst it from the ground like when she fought the lack of sleep-scientist-AIM burst)
surerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-13, 12:16   Link #180
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
saintessheart..... I can't picture what you meant with it............... loli costume? biribri? summon? its turning into a magical girl.
Persona 3. Simple
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 13:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.