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Old 2008-11-29, 16:20   Link #101
cloak_and_dagger
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Originally Posted by seiji_kun View Post
We only saw Shanks from the New World besides Whitebeard and I don't think he'll come to help for several reasons.
Very interesting post...care to elaborate?
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Old 2008-11-29, 16:29   Link #102
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
^And it's easy to understand why they're nervous, too. Whitebeard has a large, powerful crew that's 1600 men strong (and 16 of those guys are division commanders. We've only seen four of them so far). Plus, add in the fact that other pirate crews from the New World may join Whitebeard (like any of the other Yonkou aside from Shanks, for instance), and you can see why the marines are so tense right now....
Let's be realistic here though. Besides the 16 division commanders, chances are that a lot, if not all, of the remaining crew members are going to be cannon fodder. This is the way it works in any kind of massive faction/organization in One Piece. Look at the marines; they have a massive military force, but as we've seen on numerous occasions, their number of weaklings far outweighs their number of strong individuals. The only high tier (or note-worthy) members in the marines force (at least from the ones we've seen so far) are: Sengoku, the admirals, the vice admirals, Smoker, Hina, and all of the aforesaid subordinates. The same concept will undoubtedly apply to Whitebeard's crew. Quantity does not equal quality. With that being said, the only characters that are going to matter or make a difference in the upcoming war are: Whitebeard, his division commanders, the prominent marines, and the warlords. The rest will most likely be cannon fodder, which is absolutely fine since there are already plenty of characters for Oda to focus on and showcase their abilities.

In any case, there is no way Whitebeard is going to prevail in this war. He just cannot win since there are too many powerhouses waiting for him. He is simply outnumbered.
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Old 2008-11-29, 16:50   Link #103
james0246
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I doubt anyone expects Whitebeard or his crew to win. But, there is a distinct possibility that the WG's assembled force is not just for show, but instead such force is actually needed in order to battle Whitebeard and his crew. In the end, Blackbeard is correct, all that really matters in this fight are Whitebeard and his named crew, Sengoku and his named subordinates, and, of course, the Shichibukai.
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Old 2008-11-29, 16:50   Link #104
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Heh, it's kinda funny to see how in some past threads people were saying that Whitebeard was being underestimated, yet now there's people saying the exact opposite.



Anyway, I certainly do believe that Whitebeard will meet his downfall in the war. I've said in the past that his defeat would most definitely signify the end of the current age of piracy and dawn of another. While I like the idea of Blackbeard being the one to finish him off, it's just as likely that Teach will be standing in the shadows to watch the mighty Whitebeard meet his doom.....




...I still want to see the rest of those commanders, though. Hopefully they'll be introduced sooner rather than later...
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Old 2008-11-29, 17:09   Link #105
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^^^same i do see the fall of whitebeard. though in saying that he will take a lot of the marine force with him in his demise. i do think that some of the big names will fall as well. i can see two or three of the big names on the WG side going down as well. whitebeard will not be very easy to take down and they will need to have some sacrifices. also the 16, well it's 15 division commanders as Ace is at impel down. they should be on the level of the schibukia or just getting there. in a large fleet like whitebeard they would need to be strong to be division commanders.

the war will leave both sides crippled. i think ace will survive. luffy will bring him back. then the strugle for the new pirate king will begin as well as the new pirate age.



one of the main things that struck me in this chapter is the bridge. the place where Robin ended up. the bridge has been in construction sinse 700 years. that could be segnigficent, becasue the era that is not in the history books is 800 years ago(i think). so the direct result of the brige being built could be something to do with that.
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Old 2008-11-29, 17:15   Link #106
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What if Oda is leading us to believe that Whitebeard is going to fall? Well, Oda has shown us time and time again that our predictions are mostly wrong lol

He may very well let Whitebeard be triumphant and the Marines/WG dealt a heavy blow. Maybe the entire Impel Down gets blown up and criminals all take the chance to escape lol

I'm expecting major interventions from forces that are not included in this build up, like Dragon, the other 2 Yonkou and others. Can't really see what will happen besides the biggest fight ever.
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Old 2008-11-29, 17:40   Link #107
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Maybe the entire Impel Down gets blown up and criminals all take the chance to escape
that is a very mouth watering situtation. i would love to see something like that happen.
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Old 2008-11-29, 17:40   Link #108
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@C.A.: I don't really think it would benefit the story enough to have the 'Good' guys win during the upcoming battle. Specifically, there are far more immediately noticeable and interesting storylines that can develop from Whitebeard's fall. Added to that, it somewhat defeats Blackbeard's storyline if the organization he ran to for protection against Whitebeard, gets destroyed by Whitebeard.

That does not mean that a massive counter-WG event could not also occur. For example, as you said, Whitebeard could die, but destroy Impel Down in the process. Or, Dragon could 'free' a dozen plus islands during the Whitebeard assault, hell he could even strike against Mariejois killing a large amount of the Tenryubito (or maybe even directly attacking the Gorousei, which would make the entire storyarc a failure for the WG).

Just because Whitebeard's downfall seems inevitable does not mean that other equally as powerful events could not also occur to hurt the WG.
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Old 2008-11-29, 17:40   Link #109
marvelB
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
What if Oda is leading us to believe that Whitebeard is going to fall? Well, Oda has shown us time and time again that our predictions are mostly wrong lol

He may very well let Whitebeard be triumphant and the Marines/WG dealt a heavy blow. Maybe the entire Impel Down gets blown up and criminals all take the chance to escape lol


That's the thing, though..... ever since Luffy entered the Grand Line, the government's been dealt blow after blow. Thanks to Luffy, they've discovered that one of their (former) Shichibukai plotted to start a war so he could seize power for himself. Then the Straw-Hats not only defeated their greatest assassins, but even managed to get away with burning their flag and escaped a Buster Call, which nuked their judiciary island to oblivion. Plus, add in Luffy slugging a World Noble, defeating a second Shichibukai, and getting another one to fall in love with him, and you can see the predicament the government is in. Their constant losses are making them look bad. They'll need a definite victory if they want to keep face and prove their might, and defeating Whitebeard is the best way to do so.....




....and besides, the bad guys deserve at least one victory, don't they?



Quote:
I'm expecting major interventions from forces that are not included in this build up, like Dragon, the other 2 Yonkou and others. Can't really see what will happen besides the biggest fight ever.


I'm kinda expecting Dragon myself, what with the possibility that Kuma is working for him and all. I think Jinbei may end up end up fighting against the government as well, since he's already willing to give up his Shichibukai position, anyway. I can't speak for the other 2 Yonkou though, since we don't really know much about them yet. The war is certain to bring us plenty of surprises.....
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Old 2008-11-29, 17:47   Link #110
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I wonder if Dragon is taking part in this up coming war. Because they are anti World gov. organisation. And this would be propably their best shot to weaken World Goverment's authority.
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Old 2008-11-29, 18:19   Link #111
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Whitebeards fall seems inevitable to me as well. Just looking at the numbers, its the Marines complete military capacity as well as 5/7 shichibukai. Thats basically the whole force needed to balance out all 4 yonkous. While it may be likely, that the Whitebeard Pirates are a little stronger than their fellow yonkou (speculation though) (so its not really correct to say its only 1/4 yonkou-capacity). Stil, he seems awefully outnumbered.

Also i have to say, what do you people expect? That WG just gathers enough forces to barely defeat WB?
They announced Aces execution while beeing completely aware that this will lead to a direct clash with WB. They did this because they intended to shift the worlds balance towards their favor.
So to me it seems rather obvious, that gathering every "last shred of military power" is not at all a sign that Sengoku/WG is afraid of being defeated, rather it just shows their try to minimize losses as far as possible and thus achieving the aforementioned powershift.
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Old 2008-11-29, 18:35   Link #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
If this build up is boring you, I have no idea how you managed to endure One Piece till now.
I am patient and life keeps me busy.

Quote:
To the rest of us, this current chain of events building up, is one of the most epic moments that has ever happened in One Piece.

And Hancock's personality only becomes more amazing to us every chapter.
I guess we just have different tastes
You guys like Hancock, I think she is worse than a school girl and it's annoying.

Quote:
One Piece is not just about the battles, it has more on character and character relationships than battling. Why did Luffy fight so hard all the time? Because he was fighting for the sake of others, it was for people he cared for.
Yep and fighting was the key to it all.
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Old 2008-11-29, 19:05   Link #113
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would robin ending up in east blue and chopper in south blue mean that it'll take longer for the crew to rejoin together?
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Old 2008-11-29, 20:11   Link #114
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Loved the last scene with most of the shicibukai eating together. Makes me wonder which ones the strongest... It's hard to think of any of them being stronger then Kuma honestly, but of course there's to many variables involved, such as we've never seen Flamingo, and Jinbei fight, plus we've never seen Mihawk fight anyone really strong. In addition One Piece battles are like a game of rock, paper, scissors, i.e. Luffy vs Enel.

Actually I would just like to see if Kuma could beat Blackbeard.

With Jango showing up and the possibility of Bon Clay making a cameo, Kazuki Yao may have a bit of work ahead of himself. Provided they get any dialogue.

Last edited by Tommy; 2008-11-29 at 20:22.
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Old 2008-11-30, 00:12   Link #115
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Based on given information, it seems WG still underestimate WB as their scout fleet were destroyed in a flash, put them into a really tense atmosphere.

So i guess, WB going to give some one really strong in WG a "one-hit-KO", just to surprise us for underestimating him.

Like everyone, i think WB would lose, make Luffy effort to save his brother pay off. However i expect WB himself escape uninjured (or almost uninjured) after the clash, but his entire crew would be defeated as the New World pirate groups(which may include some of those....Sea Emperor(?) ) backstab him to destroy the biggest symbol of the Pirate's old age.
Then based on how WB treat his crews, a defeat like that probably would put WB's career into retired, and he end up to be a side-character who would explain things to us (and SH group) later as the story process.

Then if things happens like that, we also can see how evil and strong those New Age Pirates are (compare to those cannon-folder that we have seen in 1st half of Grand Line) , otherwise they would not be able to handle the powered-up SH groups


Why WB gonna lose? Because a defeat of WG would make Dragon's job becomes so much easier, so not much fun for us
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Old 2008-11-30, 02:36   Link #116
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you know when 2 big forces fight, both sides bound to get serious damages whichever sides won. this is a very very good opportunity for other ppl to get into frays and get the spoils of the war. pirates like the other 3 yonkou maybe waiting for the demise of whitebeard and fight for his sphere of influence or even to dealt the WG with the finishing blow. this is also a chance tt the revolutionary can't miss. this is not just a simple battle between 2 sides. lots of ppl will be observing the outcome and try to gain from it. i would say tt the losers in this will just be Whitebeard and the World Govt
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Old 2008-11-30, 03:48   Link #117
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post

Like everyone, i think WB would lose, make Luffy effort to save his brother pay off. However i expect WB himself escape uninjured (or almost uninjured) after the clash, but his entire crew would be defeated as the New World pirate groups(which may include some of those....Sea Emperor(?) ) backstab him to destroy the biggest symbol of the Pirate's old age.
Then based on how WB treat his crews, a defeat like that probably would put WB's career into retired, and he end up to be a side-character who would explain things to us (and SH group) later as the story process.
i find this scenerio HIGHLY unlikely... With how Whitebeard regards his crew, having his crew killed off would ONLY send him into a mad fury that will only end when all of his enemies are wiped out, or when he was killed (being KO'd would only delay his fury)... Whitbeard would not escape because he would not run away

frankly, i think it's more likely that Whitebeard is the only casualty... and if Blackbeard doesn't deal the final blow himself, he will atleast have a hand in it (thus bringing to fruition shank's warning to watch out for Blackbeard)... the only question would be though, what exactly will the Whitebeard pirates do when their captain is defeated? in a way, that's actually one of the biggest obstacles for the defeat of whitebeard as Oda needs for his crew to do something. .... heh, perhaps THAT's where Dragon will come in; i'm sure Luffy isn't the only son he would want by his side


WB's defeat alone would have so much meaning to the world of one piece... his defeat would be a call to the pirates of the world, that they are all doomed to fail; "if whitebeard couldn't do it, no one can"... this would cancel out the effect that Luffy has had which was "if some no-name rookie can do it, than anyone can"... It would be the end of the the great pirate age... the world will be put into a sort of limbo as those with high ambitions will now try to claim a new age

Doflamingo has his age of non-dreamers... Dragon seems to be trying to bring about his own age, an end to the world gov't... Blackbeard, though he doesn't really intend it, would probably try to continue the pirates age; only difference is him being one of the big pirates in the world... and then we have Luffy, who shanks is betting will end up starting a new age

in fact, i wouldn't be surprised if Doflamingo betrayed the world gov't shortly after WB's defeat... like he was only using his place as a shichibukai to lay low until he could fire up a new age, and WB's defeat will be his sign to get moving

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Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
Loved the last scene with most of the shicibukai eating together. Makes me wonder which ones the strongest...
frankly, i'm saying it's Blackbeard since i think he's gonna be like end boss material... the Mihawk, as the title of "strongest swordsman" should be worth atleast that much... then it's hard to tell where the rest fall exactly... though amognst the shichibukai, i think i put Moria under the rest... afterall, if you don't include croc, Moria was the first to be defeated out of them and as shonen's normally go, the weakest are USUALLY (there are exceptions) the first to be beaten

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Originally Posted by The Phenomenol View Post
Yep and fighting was the key to it all.
But the characters, story, humor, drama, etc was what make's it stand out above other shonen

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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
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would robin ending up in east blue and chopper in south blue mean that it'll take longer for the crew to rejoin together?
Unless Kuma took preparations for a trip back, they definately need to go the long way.
Again... unless they found a way to cross over the calm belt...
Chopper for instance might be able to travel by giant carnivorous bird =p

and Robin... well, we don't know where that bridge is being built too; you never know...
though a more practical possibility would be that some marine ships might need to stop by every once in a while to drop off new scriminals for slave labor... and they may just happen to be bringing them over from the grandline :wink:
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Old 2008-11-30, 06:16   Link #118
Talendra
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The question is: If the WG gathers all the powerful marines at this specific place, doesn't this mean, that the rest of the world is unprotected?
It surely does. Well, there should be a lot of fodder and low/lower mid-tier marines left to handle your average pirate joe out there. But yeah, against capable pirate crews/revolutionaries/etc. most places in the world seem to be a self-service shop at the moment.

However, i think thats a quite acceptable price to pay as long as the upcoming battle goes the way the marines are expecting. While it may not really look like that for us readers, (with Hancock/Luffy raiding ID and Odas latest comment about the reliability of the shichibukai) the marines decisions seem pretty consistent from their point of view. (to me, at least )
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Old 2008-11-30, 10:26   Link #119
risingstar3110
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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
i find this scenerio HIGHLY unlikely... With how Whitebeard regards his crew, having his crew killed off would ONLY send him into a mad fury that will only end when all of his enemies are wiped out, or when he was killed (being KO'd would only delay his fury)... Whitbeard would not escape because he would not run away
It is just a prediction but i have my own reasons to expect that.

White Beard is really old already and belonged to the old world. Most pirates his age have already retired.

Even when he is the strongest man as many claimed, he seems to have no dream or no goal left and have spend his endless day wandering around the sea. If his crews ever be harmed, he will turn into rage and probably try to take revenge (like now with Ace) until he realise how helpless he is and his age has already been overed. I expect him will be like Rayleigh: completely retired from being pirates. (somehow remind me of Rurouni Kenshin when wrote above lines )



But do not misunderstand me, i believe the chance that he will be captured or killed is as high as his crew would be defeated and he escapes (as stated above). But whatever happens, the world of One Piece would have a major change after this event.
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Old 2008-11-30, 10:44   Link #120
C.A.
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
White Beard is really old already and belonged to the old world. Most pirates his age have already retired.

Even when he is the strongest man as many claimed, he seems to have no dream or no goal left and have spend his endless day wandering around the sea. If his crews ever be harmed, he will turn into rage and probably try to take revenge (like now with Ace) until he realise how helpless he is and his age has already been overed. I expect him will be like Rayleigh: completely retired from being pirates. (somehow remind me of Rurouni Kenshin when wrote above lines )
Well, he is actively in search of One Piece and Ace was helping him become Pirate King. So you can say his dream is getting One Piece and become the Pirate King.

One Piece could just be that hard to get so he looks like he is aimless lol

If he was someone who can fight on the same level as Gold Roger, his Haki must be of Haoushoku level. Someone like him probably won't let himself retire easily, he must have a very strong will and drive.
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