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Old 2009-07-09, 13:19   Link #2361
rogerpepitone
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The last person alive other than Battler was almost certainly Maria.

Also, Rosa never entered Kinzo's room in the first place. How could she? Genji had one key; the other was (probably) still on Kinzo's corpse; the autolock is inside. She went somewhere else instead (killing Jessica? OTOH, there's a gratuitous golden butterfly when she's about to go upstairs, so maybe she went somewhere on the ground floor), and made up the story about talking to Kinzo as an alibi. She then attempted to discourage anybody from talking to Kinzo to check her story. ("He's safe in his room.")

Also, I think Kinzo's probably been in the boiler room all this time, buried in the coal bin or somesuch.
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Old 2009-07-09, 13:25   Link #2362
Renall
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Originally Posted by rogerpepitone View Post
The last person alive other than Battler was almost certainly Maria.
So then who killed "Beatrice?" If they were mortally wounded before that point, how did they end up with a half-smashed head? The only people who aren't killed that way are Kyrie (staked in the head, seems hard to do to yourself), Gohda/Kumasawa (again, rather hard to swallow), and George, who was the first person Battler confirmed dead (or "dead" anyway), before he even met with Beatrice. And possibly Kanon, but we know Kanon cannot have been the last alive or second-last after Maria.
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Old 2009-07-09, 13:28   Link #2363
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Of Kanon died long before in the 4th game begin... In this way, it would not contradict that Kanon died the first among Kyrie group. With this, we have room for 17th X person.

We only have guarantee that Kinzo is dead before everygame, but that doesn't mean another person did not die before the game start.
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Old 2009-07-09, 13:32   Link #2364
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I don't like the 'Kanon is dead all along' theory honestly :/ Do you think that Ryukushi would use the same shtick twice? Not to mention it contradicts many things - Kanon does appear in front of a lot of people, in non-fantasy induced scenes.
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Old 2009-07-09, 13:40   Link #2365
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Maybe they are all dead from the start but don't realise it, that's why the culprits can pass through locked doors - being ghosts and all. The game ends when everyone realises they are dead.
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Old 2009-07-09, 13:40   Link #2366
Alaya
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I don't like the 'Kanon is dead all along' theory honestly :/ Do you think that Ryukushi would use the same shtick twice? Not to mention it contradicts many things - Kanon does appear in front of a lot of people, in non-fantasy induced scenes.
I think it's more like "Kanon randomly died before the game start", but it might not be true. Well, I like making speculations so sometimes they might sound strange

We still cannot find the Rule X, Y, Z except "people will be killed according to the epitaph". So we might not have a rule that state everyone's life status before every game (except Kinzo).
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Old 2009-07-09, 13:50   Link #2367
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I think Kinzo being dead at the start is a rule. That's just me.
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Old 2009-07-09, 13:54   Link #2368
Alaya
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I think Kinzo being dead at the start is a rule. That's just me.
Well, then we have two rules. But how many undiscovered rules are there? I guess we can only keep guessing until the game is complete.
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Old 2009-07-09, 13:59   Link #2369
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Actually, in Episode 3, stuff started to deviate from the epitaph... the 1st twilight has been followed every time, but the other twilights don't seem to be as strongly set in stone.
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Old 2009-07-09, 14:08   Link #2370
rogerpepitone
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Probably, Maria was "Beatrice". Or at the very least, she cleaned up the next-to-last victim's death before killing herself.
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Old 2009-07-09, 14:48   Link #2371
Marion
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Well, then we have two rules. But how many undiscovered rules are there? I guess we can only keep guessing until the game is complete.
I think that there are many rules, but three main rules - rules that are always standard for the game. Since Kinzo is always dead 'Kinzo is dead before October 4th 1986' is probably a rule of the game. Battler going missing on the 10th twilight might also be a possible rule. I remember that Ryukushi mentioned in an interview that in EP 3 a rule was broken, thus allowing Eva to survive. Battler that time also died at the 9th twilight, instead of going missing on the 10th.

'Battler is the last to die' might be a rule. In every game he always seems to be the last one to survive. Because of Eva in EP 3 he died, because she was still alive at that point.
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Old 2009-07-09, 14:55   Link #2372
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The rule that was broken in EP3 might be "no one is able to solve the epitaph", assuming Eva can really solve the epitaph. That's the only difference we can see now (I guess).

I'm tempted to purpose the rule that "anyone who can solve the epitaph would survive" but we only have one example of that (EP3) so it would be too rush to assume this.
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Old 2009-07-09, 16:51   Link #2373
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Probably, Maria was "Beatrice". Or at the very least, she cleaned up the next-to-last victim's death before killing herself.
Did Battler actually confirm Maria's death? It looked like he just looked at her and saw that she was "foaming" and said she was poisoned.
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Old 2009-07-09, 16:58   Link #2374
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No, but beatrice did.
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Old 2009-07-09, 17:01   Link #2375
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You mean the bit at the very end of the first tea party, or before then?
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Old 2009-07-09, 17:57   Link #2376
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When she says soemething akin to everybody is dead but you
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Old 2009-07-09, 18:05   Link #2377
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Probably, Maria was "Beatrice". Or at the very least, she cleaned up the next-to-last victim's death before killing herself.
I find it exceedingly implausible that Battler would fail to discern that the "Beatrice" talking to him was nine years old. Maria isn't "Beatrice."
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Old 2009-07-09, 18:39   Link #2378
Christen
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When she says soemething akin to everybody is dead but you
She only said you are alone on this island. It might be the same thing, but semantics is both your friend and enemy in here.
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Old 2009-07-10, 04:10   Link #2379
Knicknevin
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I'd love to hear a reasonable explanation for 4. And not a vague one either. Who died when? Who was "Beatrice?" Who was the last person alive other than Battler? It's harder than it sounds, actually.
Okay, I'll take up that challenge. But it's gonna be huge. And I'm not gonna talk about motives... Those arguments never get anyplace.

Spoiler for A massive wall of text of DOOM:
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Old 2009-07-10, 06:11   Link #2380
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Okay, I'll take up that challenge. But it's gonna be huge. And I'm not gonna talk about motives... Those arguments never get anyplace.

Spoiler for A massive wall of text of DOOM:
WOW.
That surely is a massive wall of text of DOOM.
Seems pretty solid but is hard to see Shannon do that.
Though is true that if Shannon pass through the first twilight
we see Beatrice in her "human form".

We can add that Shannon knows Battler's Sin because he meets her
before leaving the family six years before and for telling her that he will
return in a white horse (or something like that) implicating that maybe there
is something between Shannon and Battler that we don't know.
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