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Old 2009-07-28, 11:34   Link #2841
MeoTwister5
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I'm too lazy to check my notes, but I think Beato shot down any ideas od hypnotism of powers of suggestion.
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Old 2009-07-28, 11:40   Link #2842
jonnysalaris
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whew, thank goodness that my theory is disproved!
another stupid theory, what if near the end of ep 4, anje stole a gun from the black suit men, killed everyone, then killed herself last...
im sorry for giving out stupid theories, that's all i've got..
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Old 2009-07-28, 11:42   Link #2843
ghost_zero5
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The only probelm is that she was way to overpowered for that to work and she is not a trained soldier and even if she was surrounded by enemies with guns. Only one of them had to hit her.
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Old 2009-07-28, 11:46   Link #2844
jonnysalaris
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hmmm... amakusa firing from a distance? i got nothing...
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Old 2009-07-28, 11:49   Link #2845
Kitsu
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That is the most common theory and often bound to Amakusa killed Ange as well.
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Old 2009-07-28, 11:53   Link #2846
jonnysalaris
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sorry for not knowing... just finished ep 4 cept the tea parties an hour ago...
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Old 2009-07-28, 11:55   Link #2847
ghost_zero5
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Actually, did we see Ange dying there?
But Amakusa killing them is probably way more likely than Ange getting a hold of an enemy's weapon and killing all of them before being shot

Actually, there is also the general question how important are the "magic" scenes anyway?
After all: The whole fighting scenes between Battler and Beato are already "magic". They are watching the island from a distance and something like this and also why did Ange appear suddenly. Now I am talking from a none "magic" perspective. It could be a dream but somehow that would be even more strange.

Also it seems in 1998 that nobody knows what happened at Rokkenjima there were no corpses found. So they would have been transported somewhere else before anyone arrives which should be kinda hard because of the storm and also without a boot.
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Old 2009-07-28, 11:56   Link #2848
jonnysalaris
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ummm, do you guys know what are the red words on the screen before ep 4 ends? i saw some words like, "please kill me" and "because of.." and that's it.
the others were too fast to read.
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Old 2009-07-28, 12:02   Link #2849
jonnysalaris
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ghost, i just finished reading the tea party, it says in the credits..
"ushiromiya ange (died in the 1998)"
so you're saying, amakusa might have killed ange and the rest?
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Old 2009-07-28, 12:06   Link #2850
Ttak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsu View Post
That is the most common theory and often bound to Amakusa killed Ange as well.
Or maybe he didn't kill Kasumi fast enough, so she got time to shoot Ange first. But it's only theories. What if a landslide happened and killed everyone there? Or the "thing" that caused the "incident" on Rokkenjima happened again, killing Ange and the others. I was like when i saw the ending scroll with her name and her whereabouts.
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Old 2009-07-28, 12:12   Link #2851
sword5880
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hahaha I also Thought as jonnysalaris.because if this is cause by hypnotism then everything will be solve. however i stop thinking like this because this will make my fun in solving the mystery in umineko naku koro ni... sour
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Old 2009-07-28, 12:13   Link #2852
ghost_zero5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnysalaris View Post
so you're saying, amakusa might have killed ange and the rest?
That could have happened any time and didn't had to be there.
I think that she might got shot by Kasumi before Amakusa was able to kill her.

But yeah: Her dying there is a bit strange - regarding the credits. However, if we wouldn't just theorize about a non-magic theory that one could also be explained by the "human" Ange dying and bying reborn as the "witch" ANGE-Beatrice but of course, that won't work for a non-magic theory.
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Old 2009-07-28, 12:21   Link #2853
Vega Lyra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnysalaris View Post
ghost, i just finished reading the tea party, it says in the credits..
"ushiromiya ange (died in the 1998)"
so you're saying, amakusa might have killed ange and the rest?

It could be possible Amakusa did so. But for what reason? Anyone could have been on the island at the time. Anything could have happened. Perhaps Ange was close to discovering something that would have been bad for someone...What was her reason for arriving on the island again?
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Old 2009-07-28, 12:23   Link #2854
maximilianjenus
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Originally Posted by Ttak View Post
Or maybe he didn't kill Kasumi fast enough, so she got time to shoot Ange first. But it's only theories. What if a landslide happened and killed everyone there? Or the "thing" that caused the "incident" on Rokkenjima happened again, killing Ange and the others. I was like when i saw the ending scroll with her name and her whereabouts.
IIRc kasumi did not die.
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Old 2009-07-28, 12:25   Link #2855
ghost_zero5
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She did not die? Didn't the VN mention that a critical part (I believe it was the head but not sure anymore) got completely "pierced"?
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Old 2009-07-28, 12:27   Link #2856
Kitsu
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But for what reason?
Okonogi and Amakusa are working together. After killing the Aunt (and with that the direct relative) of Ange, they kill of Ange and make her "disappear from the world's surface" then with a few tricks and stuff both are able to get the inheritance of Ange. There war an acutal more devolped theory which explained how Okonogi could have gained control after Ange's death of her funds. But I forgot

About Kasumi...I#m unsure if she's death
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Old 2009-07-28, 12:30   Link #2857
ghost_zero5
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Well at least it wasn't mentioned if she died or not. Just that she "got hit" I believe and even that one could be fake information.
Does anyone remember if the end credits mentioned something regarding her like they did for Ange?
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Old 2009-07-28, 12:59   Link #2858
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnysalaris View Post
hypnotism...hypnotism...hypnotism...
That has been discussed in the past. It would "solve" everything, but it is not realistic (hypnotism in the real world isn't that powerful as in fiction) and it's lame. Everyone hopes it won't end up this way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
I'm too lazy to check my notes, but I think Beato shot down any ideas od hypnotism of powers of suggestion.
Unfortunately not. Hypnotism wasn't even mentioned. If I open the script file of the game and I search for "hypno" the only thing I find is this:

"No, no, my bad, Shannon-chan. Looks like I got a little too absorbed in your hypnotic chest"


About Ange's death. Some time ago someone noticed that unlike any other bullet, Kasumi's bullet wasn't dealt with. There's nothing that says that Kasumi shot and missed Ange or that the bullet was stopped or anything. It just says that Kasumi shot against Ange and then it doesn't add anything.

I personally don't like the theory that Amakusa killed Ange, simply because he had a lot of chances to do that before. Even if he wanted to use her as a bait to kill Kasumi & co. is he really that lame? I think he's prideful enough to think he can do the job without using a girl as bait.

There is another theory that states that Ange died when she jumped from the skyscraper. Everything that happens later is just a fantasy trip.


@Kitsu: A door? well yeah... but does that qualify as furniture?
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Old 2009-07-28, 13:05   Link #2859
ghost_zero5
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Well maybe you could call some statues in front of a door gatekeepers..?
Btw.: Wouldn't a door be a gate and not a gatekeeper?

Regarding hypnotism: Actually that is extremely unlikely and it would also be totally lame.
It starts with the point that it isn't so easy to get a person into hypnosis and at least not if the other person doesn't won't do. Even then you can't use it to let another person commit murder, if that person doesn't want to. However, I am not sure, if there might be a possibility to let the person think that she doesn't commit murder but actually help another person and be made to kill her that way like e.g. pushing someone of a skyscraper by letting that person believe it isn't a skyscraper but something else.
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Old 2009-07-28, 13:10   Link #2860
Kitsu
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Quote:
"No, no, my bad, Shannon-chan. Looks like I got a little too absorbed in your hypnotic chest"
SHANNON'S BOOBS ARE THE CULPRIT! case closed

Quote:
There is another theory that states that Ange died when she jumped from the skyscraper. Everything that happens later is just a fantasy trip.
First thing I thought of...jumping from a skycraper...it would take a miracle to survive that (Bern-chan doesn't count).

Quote:
@Kitsu: A door? well yeah... but does that qualify as furniture?
Dunno, so I google'd it. (yes i google everything it's funny)
well there is something "door furniture" but if the door itself counts.. I mean it's kinda a furniture.

Quote:
Btw.: Wouldn't a door be a gate and not a gatekeeper?
For me the gate itself was always something like the doorframe..but maybe I'm wrong
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