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Old 2009-08-30, 07:24   Link #3321
~Diru~
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Well she actually said it along with the other silblings, but this scene could be faked too of course...
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Old 2009-08-30, 09:03   Link #3322
LuckySovietStar
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Hey, I didn't say that drug theory, it was __dk's . Tough Gohda Commando didn't escape trough window, there was something about footing if I remember correctly. But I think that indeed, if windows are not tricky one (that kind of windows where breaking glass is not enough, you also need to destroy other elements), you can escape Chapel using one, with enoug prep time.
About being aware of Red Truth-well, I just wanted to say, that some theories sounds like peoples are making them like culprit was aware of Red Truth and was going to make red text tricky. That way of thinking is rather dangerous, and full of traps.

Quote:
- The door was locked when Rosa arrived.
Poor rosa, she is sure a sad sheep-nobody wants her in hidden chapel conference . Hey, maybe they didn't trust her? I mean, she is probably closer to the solving epitah than Eva (I like theory that she is afraid there is a trap, so she don't want to check it alone, and yet, she is too greedy for sharing it with others-Ep 3 suggests other way around, but still, she sure is a good actress) or other siblings. Maybe they were thinking that she solved it already? I wonder why that gold was placed here. It's like that gold from Ep1-where is it? Why no one ever found it? Like, Battler, when he was lolly gaging around the mansion in Alliance?
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Old 2009-08-30, 09:33   Link #3323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySovietStar View Post
Hey, I didn't say that drug theory, it was __dk's .
_ how did that happened? Ok I corrected it XD
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Old 2009-08-30, 10:07   Link #3324
~Diru~
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I don't believe that the other silblings knew that Rosa could solve the riddle.
Besides, all of them were in the chapel when they acknowledged Beatrice so why did Rosa leave and the rest didn't?
I'm not sure about the 3 ingots in the chapel, we can't know if they are real or not...Krauss only had one in this room, so if they are real the culprit must have placed them there...
If we can believe the ED stats than no one solved the epitaph...
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Old 2009-08-30, 10:19   Link #3325
LuckySovietStar
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Well, you are right. They don't think too high of her, yet she might be closest to the solving it-only person that might be able to spot is Kyrie. In which Ep Kyrie said that thing about getting friendly with Rosa because of being parent of little girl, or something like that?
Also, anyone remember that drug\medicine Supersheep have against Maria's tantrums? I was kinda curious about it, but I don't remember anything that I can use to google it...Like, can you buy something without doctor approval?
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Old 2009-08-30, 10:22   Link #3326
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In which Ep Kyrie said that thing about getting friendly with Rosa because of being parent of little girl
Ep2 if my memory doesn't trick me.
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Old 2009-08-30, 10:24   Link #3327
Kitsu
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Yes, it was Ep 2. A bit before Rosa goes out to search for Maria I think
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Old 2009-08-30, 10:30   Link #3328
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Yes, it was Ep 2. A bit before Rosa goes out to search for Maria I think
Then it might have no relevance at all....
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Old 2009-08-30, 11:21   Link #3329
Antera Caramichael
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Well, Rosa said herself in the end that she always lived in the shadow of her siblings, and that they always considered her as their young idiot little sister.
I think that we can throw away the scene in the chapel because we know that Beatrice wasn't there in the first place. Personally, I think that:
Spoiler for Theories for the Second Game, from the First to the 5th Twilight.:
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Old 2009-08-30, 11:27   Link #3330
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I think that we can throw away the scene in the chapel because we know that Beatrice wasn't there in the first place
Wait! How can you say that with such a confidence? Battler definitely sees Beatrice in Ep4. Of course it was most probably someone in disguise, but that mean a person in flesh and bones that takes the role of Beatrice exists! And that means that the possibility that the Beatrice shown in ep2 in the chapel is the same Beatrice that Battler sees in ep4 is quite high!

I can't really think that so many people in ep2 had all the same hallucinations.
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Old 2009-08-30, 11:28   Link #3331
Antera Caramichael
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Well, we have to solve one problem then: How can Beatrice be there if there is only 17 people on the island and we saw each of them? And it is not required to be an hallucination: If we consider that only what Battler see and the Red Truth as the truth.
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Old 2009-08-30, 11:31   Link #3332
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The easier way to explain it is that she's someone of 17 in disguise. Anyway you have the same problem with ep4, and you can't say that Battler talking to Beatrice didn't really happen.
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Old 2009-08-30, 11:31   Link #3333
Volcanic
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Although I don't think there's a "Rokkenjima Syndrome" I do think there's something giving everyone hallucinations. Like my "different people remember the previous worlds in different arcs" theory, there could be a "different people start hallucinating in each arc" theory. How? That's the thing to ponder.

EDIT: Was it ever said in Red that what Battler sees is or is not immune to hallucinations? I know everything we see from him is supposed to be exactly what he saw.
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Old 2009-08-30, 11:36   Link #3334
Antera Caramichael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
The easier way to explain it is that she's someone of 17 in disguise. Anyway you have the same problem with ep4, and you can't say that Battler talking to Beatrice didn't really happen.
Battler explained this in Episode 5 I think, even if it is a little more than seing a figure, it could be an hallucination caused by his fear, moreover, it was very late, it could be cause by tiredness and overstress: What if he was responsible for the murder in a direct, or indirect way? Is Beatrice really exist or not? etc etc...
in brief, it could be a dream...

Edit: Oh by the way, didn't he drink a bit in the guesthouse? Or maybe I'm confused with another scene...
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Old 2009-08-30, 11:39   Link #3335
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uhm since you mention ep5 I'll give a proper explanation on ep5 thread.
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Old 2009-08-30, 11:39   Link #3336
~Diru~
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But the same hallicunation by different people?

At the End of ch. 2 Battler sees Kinzo which is already dead, and Piece- Battler shouldn't know about the "Kinzo name inheritance" so if it isn't a "clone" he is hallucinating at this point at least.
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Old 2009-08-30, 11:41   Link #3337
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the game ends at midnight of october5, what Battler sees after that doesn't matter.
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Old 2009-08-30, 11:44   Link #3338
Volcanic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Diru~ View Post
But the same hallicunation by different people?
I'm thinking it depends on the scene.

On that note, this means Beato has to be someone on the island in disguise, or someone else is dead by then that we don't know of.
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Old 2009-08-30, 11:46   Link #3339
Antera Caramichael
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Well, Ep2 is not a very good example since he was completely drunk in this scene^^. But we can't consider that everything that was shown to us is the truth! If we think this way, we would have to explain the stakes, Kanon's corpse disappearance, the goats, etc etc...
What I want to say concerning Ep2 is that Battler didn't see Beatrice in this game, except at the end when he was completely drunk and when he saw Kinzo as well who was already dead since at least 3 days. The rest can be explain with my theory at this point I think (Please crush it =p)
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Old 2009-08-30, 11:51   Link #3340
LuckySovietStar
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Eh, that EP5. Can't wait for translation. Almost spoiled myself when looking for new character futari-e (that's how sprite or whatever is called, right?) on Umineko Wiki, but guess what, there was just spoilerish wall of text. God damned traps.

So, our dear piece Beato.
1.) Is she a constant piece? I mean, everytime she appears, she is the same person in disguise?
2.) Who she can be? In both Eps, she can be everyone. In EP4, when Battler meets her we have no idea who was still alive. Hell, in Ep2 she might be already dead after 1st Twilight! But still, that fuckin ep2 drunkenness. Battler, can you not touch %things when you are goin to narrate some critical part of story ?
3.) Why she is not appearing in EP 1 and EP 3? Can we name found some "Beatrice trigger"? Only thing I can think at the moment (and at the moment, I'm watching romhacked Mario gameplays, so yeah ) is that Shannon live pretty long when Piece Beato appear.
4.) How many people seen her? Not counting chapel scene, Maria's letter and servants: Kyrie and Rosa (EP2), Battler (EP4). And if we count servants, we have also Genji (well he was in the same scene as Kyrie, so), Kannon and Shannon (only EP 2). Fi-shy.

Edit:
Quote:
After that, he stabed Kanon and transported his body to another spot.
Shouldn't there be a Blood Trail? And Gohda, beside being magical commando chef, don't appear as a person who can clean blood in very precise manner.
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