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Old 2009-09-30, 17:45   Link #3541
momobunny
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This still leaves Kanon and Shannon's scene quite mysterious though... regardless of how many times the game repeated, or if Beato was exaggerating... Kanon and Shannon know something.
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Old 2009-09-30, 17:52   Link #3542
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Or could it be they expected something, rather than knew something. Like maybe the plan was for them to "die" first.
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Old 2009-09-30, 18:36   Link #3543
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Beatrice might skip over repeats that can not be adjusted to a useful episode.

For example, if piece-Battler walks in on the killer early, and gets killed off too early, or sees an important trick exposed, that repeat would give meta-Battler too much information.

Alternately, in one of the "meta-Beatrice is not evil" theories, Beatrice has a lesson in each episode. For episode 3, it might be along the lines of "One of the people on the island is betraying your trust. Much as it hurts, you will have to treat everyone as a suspect."
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Old 2009-10-01, 00:19   Link #3544
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I can't stomach the idea that Beatrice can manipulate Battler's memory. Metabattler is supposed to remember all the games he's been in. If Beatrice can conveniently erase a game and all the related memories as she see fit, then Battler doesn't have a chance to win.

Everyone agrees on the numerical orders of the games, even Bern and Lambda. I don't see enough reason to imagine a complicated system that only counts certain games and not all of them. There is no mention of this.

Imho what Kanon and Shannon said was simply because in ep1 Shannon died at the first twilight, in ep3 both died at the first twilight, in ep2 both survived (but Kanon died shortly after). In other words it is unusual for both of them to survive the first twilight.
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Old 2009-10-01, 04:16   Link #3545
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Out of 18 people, there are 153 pairs. (18*17/2). Of those pairs, 66 (12*11/2) will have both survive the first twilight. A random pair will have both survive 43% of the time. Having both survive in 2 games out of 4 is better than average. (Also, the fact that Kanon died at the second twilight in game 2 is irrelevant; Shannon only mentions the first twilight.)

(For example, in the shown games, Gohda/Natsuhi or Shannon/Eva never have both survive the first twilight.)

My interpretation was as follows:
1) Beatrice can watch over an entire 48-hour interval in advance.
2) (Possibly, she can choose not to use that interval for a game.)
3) If she does use that interval, then she starts a game against meta-Battler.

And she can block some memories; in episode 3, Battler only remembers the very end to his final converstation with Eva.
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Old 2009-10-01, 07:15   Link #3546
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I still think the easiest interpretation is that Shannon and Kanon sucks at math, I can't really see them making such calculations. Plus they aren't considering ep4, just the first 3.
Your looking too much into a casual discussion which isn't even supposed to be real, imho.
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Old 2009-10-01, 09:03   Link #3547
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In Episode 1, Shannon dies in the First Twilight, Kanon doesn't. However, in Episode 2, only the siblings died in the First Twilight, so how is it un-usual for Shannon, and Kanon, to both survive the First Twilight? After all, it's about 50:50, they survived together in both Episode 2, and Episode 4, and the remaining two Episodes had either both of them die (Episode 3), or only Shannon die (Episode 1).
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Old 2009-10-01, 13:29   Link #3548
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Originally Posted by OBrasilo View Post
In Episode 1, Shannon dies in the First Twilight, Kanon doesn't. However, in Episode 2, only the siblings died in the First Twilight, so how is it un-usual for Shannon, and Kanon, to both survive the First Twilight? After all, it's about 50:50, they survived together in both Episode 2, and Episode 4, and the remaining two Episodes had either both of them die (Episode 3), or only Shannon die (Episode 1).
Ep4 is a bit messy and you can't ake into account who survived each twilight and who not. I mean, Genji could have not been killed in the first twilight and maybe had a fight with Jessica (which I highly doubt). Till the order is specified, we only know Kanon died the 9th, the first in Kyrie's group (we don't know the members though)
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Old 2009-10-01, 14:20   Link #3549
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So we know for sure that Kyrie died after Kanon, who died at the 9th twilight.

The 4th Episode is certainly the most obscure one; Battler was the entire time in the guesthouse. They could have all been running around until the moment Battler entered into the mansion and looked around.

Someone was yelling to Battler when he reached his 'exam' place. And for some reason, that person died after Battler went to retrieve some keys from the Chapel. We can be sure that Maria was in the mansion before Battler entered (most likely. anyways). And Maria left right after handing the phone to Battler in the guesthouse. I believe Battler entered the mansion the moment he arrived back from the chapel. So, did Maria die a quick death? I'd really like to know why she died.

Spoiler for Kumasawa and Gohda's deaths in the tool shed::
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Old 2009-10-01, 14:51   Link #3550
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Kanon was the 9th person to die (fourth twilight, seemingly), not the 9th twilight.

Spoiler for Kumasawa & Gohda in ep. 4:
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Old 2009-10-01, 15:06   Link #3551
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Originally Posted by rogerpepitone View Post
Kanon was the 9th person to die (fourth twilight, seemingly), not the 9th twilight.

Spoiler for Kumasawa & Gohda in ep. 4:
Ah, thanks for clearing the thing of Kanon up =).


Spoiler for K + G EP4:
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Old 2009-10-01, 16:20   Link #3552
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Such a rifle requires you to use the lever action to get a new bullet into the chamber to fire it again. But that takes about a second. The problem will be the reloading, since the guns given in the TIPS hold five bullets at the most and the bullets have to be feed into the magazine one at a time, like Maria was doing for her mother. However doing this will give you nine shots (since you can't load the fifth bullet until you have one in the chamber, and that will take time you don't have when one is on a killing spree.)
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Old 2009-10-01, 16:25   Link #3553
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Such a rifle requires you to use the lever action to get a new bullet into the chamber to fire it again. But that takes about a second. The problem will be the reloading, since the guns given in the TIPS hold five bullets at the most and the bullets have to be feed into the magazine one at a time, like Maria was doing for her mother. However doing this will give you nine shots (since you can't load the fifth bullet until you have one in the chamber, and that will take time you don't have when one is on a killing spree.)
If we take fantasy scenes to have some grains of truth you can say Rudolf and Kyrie are pretty skilled with lever action, replaying their gun duels from EP 3
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Old 2009-10-01, 18:30   Link #3554
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Reproduction of Mare's Leg
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Old 2009-10-01, 18:46   Link #3555
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Well for those of you that have little knowledge of how one of these guns in Umineko works...that video should give you some ideas. You have to load though that little slot on the right side of the gun...one bullet at a time, and you can only get the fifth one in after using the level action once to get the first bullet in the chamber and ready to fire.

Five shots max. Four in the magazine and one in the firing chamber.
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Old 2009-10-05, 02:02   Link #3556
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Well... Having finished Ep4 just yesterday...today...nevermind. I've got a few questions and impressions to share. Please bear with me.

Spoiler for My thoughts:


I'm new in this "Witch Hunting" so please bear with my twisted logic.
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Old 2009-10-05, 02:16   Link #3557
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Berkastel is not Rika.

But Berkastel might have come from Rika.
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Old 2009-10-05, 02:56   Link #3558
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Originally Posted by Isekaijin View Post
-Loled with Virgilia in this Ep. So much for the allmighty Predecessor-sama. And what's with those loser flags?. "My goat little sister?" So is there a goat world where goats go to a goat high school, have goat sempais and marry their goat childhood friends? Then who is Virgilia? The "not a goat" headmistress of the goat school or the mackarel loving "not a goat" mayor of the goat town?
That would suck to be a goat. If someone punches you in the face you turn into butterflies and vanish forever.
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-ANGE's death really shocked me. Who was the moron who put that strange rule of "Nobody can know "Gretel" is actually Battler's little sister?" If it was Lambda, it pisses me even more that she can disobey her own rules. Brave sister till the end, she broke the stalemate of Battler and Beatrice.
I think it was Bernkastel that made that stupid rule up. I expect more idiotic rules from that cunt in future episodes.
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Originally Posted by Isekaijin View Post
-In Battler's test. Was it truly Beato the one who showed before him? Nowdays I'm less and less sure of her not existing in the game board. In Ep2 she showed herself to some people, and now she even appeared before Battler before her supposed "resurrection". Isn't Battler's POV the only thing we can trust besides the Red Truth?
Most people believe that is was someone who survived up to that point in disguise. Since we can't trust the magic scenes it's hard to tell who was left alive at point in the episode. Regarding Battler's POV, since he's the detective his perspective is trustworthy (except when he's wasted of course).
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-And for that matters. How is Beato perfectly well after Ep3. She supossedly gave her Endless magic to Eva. EVA-Beatrice still existed in the world of 1998. What's more weren't both denied by Beato's Red Truth? And that wasn't in the gameboard, that was in the Meta-world, so the damage was done to the "player" Beato, not the "piece" Beato, supposing there was one to begin with. Shouldn't that damage be "real?"
Remember Beatrice's and Virgilia's lovely smiles during the banquet at the end of episode 3? I think the point of that scene was to show that a lot of what happened near the end of episode 3 was master troll work.
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-This EP broke the pure and sweet image of Bernkastel that I had in Higurashi and in EP2 when she said "Fight-oh Mii Nipah" And about Lambda... well. Hate both of them now. I even started to see Beato as a victim, rather than a murderer. Please someone assure me in red that this Bernkastel has nothing to do with Rika-chan of Higurashi, or I might start losing it. Even I'm starting to think that a kakera where Higurashi's events are eternally repeated with no chance of victory might be good for that... witch. And as for Lambdadelta... don't even ask.
Unfortunately, it is most likely the case that from our courageous and loveable heroine from Higurashi a piece of trash known as "Bernkastel" was born. The good news is that they are probably different entities.

I had similar impressions when I first read ep4 too. I think you're evil twin theory is a good one.
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Old 2009-10-05, 07:39   Link #3559
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Originally Posted by Isekaijin View Post
Ushiromiya Battler. I will now... kill you.
And right now, there is no one other than you (two) on this island.
The only one alive on this island is you(two).
Nothing outside the island can interfere.
You (two) are all alone on this island.
And of course, I am not you.
Yet I am here, now, and will kill you.
That doesn't work in japanese. "You" in english can be both plural and singular but "anata" is strictly singular in japanese. If it was plural she should have rather said "anatatachi". Actually "the only one alive is you" even english precludes that possibility since it should be rather "the only ones alive are you"
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Old 2009-10-05, 13:58   Link #3560
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It could be referring to either of the two then. This other "Ushiromiya Battler" is, in my eyes, a big hint. Since they used the red truth to deny the fact that meta-Battler was born from Asumu, it can't be such a thing as Battler having split personality or something like that. They are two individuals called Ushiromiya Battler. And it's easy to imaginea Rudolf plotting to take the head of the familiy from Krauss. None of the three siblings liked Krauss to begin with. Eva tried to take the head using her son who was born before Jessica. Rosa is a wimp but if she could have the guts she would do the same.

Devil's Proof for my theory. Can't prove it's real, but there's no way this can be denied. I see it as the only way of Battler to die being everyone dead at that point in the game. Unless he was killed by his favourite "Trap X" he abused using against Beato.

Just as an another question, Who was the one who saved Ange from Kasumi in the world of 1998? The stakes materializing to serve the new witch was nice and all, but at this point I think nobody swallows that story. Amakusa was in the shore so he couldn't have helped her, and if he had followed her ignoring her orders, he probably wouldn't have waited until she was half dead from the beating. But what about if the culprit stayed on the island after all this time? If you think about it, Rokkenjima was a perfect place to hide, due to it's mystique. Nobody would go there, because everyone is afraid of the witch. It's enough to hide during a brief period of time to make the police stop searching and then you have an island with two mansions all to yourself. If someone see lights turned on they would believe it was the witch.

Maybe, just maybe "Beatrice" is living there now that nobody would bother her. Nor the annoying Kinzo, nor his obnoxious descendants. But if even a tiny bit of that Marriage Sorciere stuff was true and Ange was added through Maria, it would explain why this "Beatrice" would like to save her. If my theory of Battler having someone who shares his name and who is also Kinzo's grandson, then it would be even better. He would save Ange because she is his last living relative. The guns weren't found right? and we all know how easy was to them to pierce people's heads or intestines, or whatever.

About EP 4 Rosa is the BEST MOM EVER. The scene when she destroyed Sakutaro proved that.
But seriously... If only being chased by a pack of buttler goats make you admit that you're a bad mother, then you truly are a bad mom.
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