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Old 2009-06-12, 14:00   Link #1281
Rei-Tenshi
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Was the Valentine's Day story about the Stakes ever translated?

I remember reading somewhere that Witch Hunt was planning to translate it after EP4. Was it already translated somewhere or are we still waiting for it?
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Old 2009-06-12, 14:01   Link #1282
Sterling01
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Originally Posted by Nadeor View Post
Bernkastel has officially dropped to a status near Rosa in my heart after EP4 Inner Tea Party
But Rosa is the world's best mother
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rei-Tenshi View Post
I remember reading somewhere that Witch Hunt was planning to translate it after EP4. Was it already translated somewhere or are we still waiting for it?
Ace was planning on translating it but he's not part of Witch Hunt.
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Old 2009-06-12, 14:40   Link #1283
Jan-Poo
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What is this valentine's day story?
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Old 2009-06-12, 15:43   Link #1284
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Ok, I've got something I'm trying to sort out, but first I want to give you guys some background on why I'm trying to sort it out. I decided to run an RPG based on Umineko with a bunch of friends who haven't read it and probably never will. I started out using Dark Heresy rules because I was lazy and didn't want to learn a new system but I ended up settling on something called Wushu because it allowed them to fight just as well as the people who had guns. Before this they were constantly trying to steal the guns away from the other characters which as you know would break the story in some cases.

Anyway, now that you got the background here's my question. We are getting ready to start EP4 and I decided to allow them to have 2 characters. One group is Rokkenjima 1986 the other is off island in 1998 and is helping Amakusa protect Ange. I'm trying to get all of the jumping around of the storyline under control so that it will make a bit more sense when we play through it. I plan on having Ange tell any stories from the diary only if the PCs gain her trust so that takes care of a lot of it. The thing thats giving me the most trouble though is the scene in the hotel where Ange tries to summon the Seven Sisters of Purgatory. If a character that has chosen to beleive in magic walks in on that they will clearly see Maria helping her and yet later Ange would then go on to explain that she had been kicked out of the Mariage Sorciere in 1996 and is seeking to make things right. How is this scene possible? At this point Maria should clearly beleive that Sakutaro is dead yet he is there and she shouldn't be on speaking terms with Ange. Also when Ange summons the stakes on the boat later they act as though they haven't spoken since 1996. If magic doesn't exist then none of this really matters, but for a character that does beleive in magic this breaks continuity. Am I remembering all of this wrong?
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Old 2009-06-12, 16:35   Link #1285
blitz1/2
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I am probably blowing hot air but how about this?

Could it be possible that Battler's sin resulted in Asumu's death.

According to battler's sin, SOMEBODY died.

Also, I don't think that if Battler didn't show up the massacre would not have happened.
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Old 2009-06-12, 16:40   Link #1286
Jan-Poo
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Even if Ange left the alliance at the time Eva died she inherited the name Beatrice. In other words she is Beatrice the witch that lived for a thousand year, those who believe in magic must acknowledge this.

The biggest problem I see here is that Ange doesn't believe in magic and witches herself. She only acknowledge that someone believes in them. This is why she can use her magic power and completely get rid of her own magi toxin. However that doesn't mean she accepts the existence of magic. Confused? So am I...

As for Sakutaro, he's not dead, that's only what Maria thinks, so there's nothing wrong with Ange being able to summon him. You could say that Maria developed a specific magitoxin that only works on Sakutaro. Even if Maria created Sakutaro by 0, that existence still remain and all the witches of the mariage sorciere can summon him.

For what concerns the stakes... for what I can understand, they go to slumber if there isn't any witch to summon them. At least that's what the stakes say in that particular situation and it doesn't match with what Gaap is saying, considering she talks about a whole demonic world she lives in.

Personally I think that there are too many evidences that the antimystery perspective is full of holes, so trying to make it credible will be kinda hard.
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Old 2009-06-12, 17:01   Link #1287
Ikth7
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
As for Sakutaro, he's not dead, that's only what Maria thinks, so there's nothing wrong with Ange being able to summon him. You could say that Maria developed a specific magitoxin that only works on Sakutaro. Even if Maria created Sakutaro by 0, that existence still remain and all the witches of the mariage sorciere can summon him.

For what concerns the stakes... for what I can understand, they go to slumber if there isn't any witch to summon them. At least that's what the stakes say in that particular situation and it doesn't match with what Gaap is saying, considering she talks about a whole demonic world she lives in.

Personally I think that there are too many evidences that the antimystery perspective is full of holes, so trying to make it credible will be kinda hard.
-Okay, I'll accept that it's just Maria that cannot see him. But if that's true then why does Maria talk to Sakutaro in this scene even though at this point the toxin should prevent that? Perhaps we should look at this Maria as 'furniture' and not a witch. Perhaps this Maria is a substitute created by Ange to fill void left by the real Maria. If thats the case, then where does this extra Maria go to? I think she is only in this scene.

-From what I understand about demons and 'furniture' there is a big difference. Furniture is created by a witch while the demons already exist and are summoned. Sakutaro and the Siestas are created by Maria who is an Origin witch but that creates a problem for the stakes of purgatory because Beatrice claims to have created them even though she also claims to be unable to use origin magic. There is also the case of Ronove stating that Genji is his vessel. I don't think this contradicts the idea that demons exist before hand and are simply summonded. Using a human as a vessel could be viewed more like possession. However I am at a loss to explain how Ronove is walking around when Genji is so clearly killed in EP4.

-Tell me about it. However I like to argue the fantasy perspective anyway because of the way Higurashi ended. Yes oyashiro was real and all the kakera jumping was real, but the supernatural elements were not actually responsible for the curse. If Umineko follows the same pattern, then it is likely that magic is real, but that it was not used to carry out the murders.

*edit*
Okay, nevermind my rambling about 'furniture' vs demons because Ronove calls himself furniture. It's probably better to say there are 2 kinds of 'furniture'. Those that are created and those that are summoned. I'm not sure if the Stakes of Purgatory are created by Beatrice or just summoned to serve her. I don't remember anymore so maybe their isn't a contradiction there after all. I am also confused now as to just where they all go when they aren't summoned. The Stakes as well as Sakutaro go to sleep while everyone else goes to the demon realm. This is weird because Sakutaro was created, and perhaps the Stakes were too. But the Siestas, who were also created, go back to the demon realm and constantly talk about this 'Pendragon' guy we have yet to see.

I also just had a thought about the 'extra' Maria. Going on the theory that there are two Maria's this is how is works out. Maria said she left a fragment of her soul in the diary. This is that 'extra' Maria and it can only remember things written in the diary. This fragment's memory will change depending on what section you are reading, so if you are reading the section before Sakutaro dies then she can talk to him just fine. I dunno, still kind of fuzzy about anything concerning Maria and Sakutaro in this episode.

Last edited by Ikth7; 2009-06-12 at 17:26. Reason: Bad definition and extra thoughts
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Old 2009-06-12, 18:16   Link #1288
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I wonder who this Pendragon is supposed to be... The siestas sure are mysterious... What is the connection between Winchesters, OSs, ceramic bunnies, and The 12 knights of the round?
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Old 2009-06-12, 18:23   Link #1289
Rayneing
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
What is the connection between Winchesters, OSs, ceramic bunnies, and The 12 knights of the round?
Well, I know how at least two of those things are related.
Spoiler for bunnies & knights of the round:
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Old 2009-06-12, 18:46   Link #1290
Hareoic
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Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
I am probably blowing hot air but how about this?

Could it be possible that Battler's sin resulted in Asumu's death.

According to battler's sin, SOMEBODY died.
I've been considering this possibility, and I think it's plausible if you consider either of these as an explanation for him not knowing his sin:

Spoiler for Asumu:


Or, if you want to explain Asumu's death and the recurrent themes about love,
Spoiler for One more theory:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Even if Ange left the alliance at the time Eva died she inherited the name Beatrice. In other words she is Beatrice the witch that lived for a thousand year, those who believe in magic must acknowledge this.
Speaking of a thousand years, Hanyuu of Higurashi claims to have been a god for a thousand years, and Beatrice claims to have been alive for a thousand years. I forget if Bernkastel makes a similar claim, but if one takes an anti-mystery view, something important happened a thousand-ish years ago (though whether it's a thousand actual years or a thousand years of resets is hard to say) that gave birth to the game they're all involved in. Just something to consider.
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Last edited by Hareoic; 2009-06-12 at 18:56.
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Old 2009-06-12, 18:46   Link #1291
Jan-Poo
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Yeah I can imagine the siestas being Vorpal Bunnies...
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Old 2009-06-12, 20:12   Link #1292
MeoTwister5
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Pendragon is possibly a relation to the Arthurian legends. However when you think about it the Magical side of the game draws so heavily on European legends and myhtology which in turns makes a bit of their realism questionable.
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Old 2009-06-12, 20:15   Link #1293
Hareoic
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Pendragon is possibly a relation to the Arthurian legends. However when you think about it the Magical side of the game draws so heavily on European legends and myhtology which in turns makes a bit of their realism questionable.
The point is it's Western mythology, possibly fitting in with all the other Western themes in the game.

I considered that Pendragon might be a nickname for Maria's father, but I really don't think that's the case.
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Old 2009-06-12, 21:35   Link #1294
hodil
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The first twilight:

A person claiming to be "Ushiromiya Kinzo" entered the dining room with three ceramic bunnies. They had small bombs attached onto them. After making the announcement, Kinzo tossed the bunnies at 6 victims, causing half their heads to explode. But then he would need 6 bunnies...



Anyone find it possible that Ryukishi would come up with some kind of new disease that only existed on Rokkenjima?

Oh and Im just curious... Why why why did Kyrie told Battler to believe...
From a antimystery point of view... Its possible that she was attacked by the golden threads... but from a antifantasy point of view... Isnt it more probable that she was threatened with a gun pointed at her to tell her to lie to Battler...? But then again... those locked rooms...
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Old 2009-06-12, 21:47   Link #1295
blitz1/2
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Originally Posted by hodil View Post

The first twilight:

A person claiming to be "Ushiromiya Kinzo" entered the dining room with three ceramic bunnies. They had small bombs attached onto them. After making the announcement, Kinzo tossed the bunnies at 6 victims, causing half their heads to explode. But then he would need 6 bunnies...



Anyone find it possible that Ryukishi would come up with some kind of new disease that only existed on Rokkenjima?

Oh and Im just curious... Why why why did Kyrie told Battler to believe...
From a antimystery point of view... Its possible that she was attacked by the golden threads... but from a antifantasy point of view... Isnt it more probable that she was threatened with a gun pointed at her to tell her to lie to Battler...? But then again... those locked rooms...

Maybe she had a time bomb strapped on her.
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Old 2009-06-12, 21:48   Link #1296
Ikth7
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Originally Posted by Hareoic View Post
The point is it's Western mythology, possibly fitting in with all the other Western themes in the game.

I considered that Pendragon might be a nickname for Maria's father, but I really don't think that's the case.
That would be awesome. However for the Siesta's to know Maria's father, from a mystery perspective, she would have had to show him the bunnies. However if I'm remembering correctly Rosa said he abandoned them(whatever that means). Another way they could know him is if he was somehow partially responsible for Maria receiving them, like if he bought them and gave them to Rosa to give to her, but that seems unlikely as well. I guess Rosa could have lied about where she got them. If you're going for a purely fantasy perspective though I guess it could still work if for some reason Maria's father was into magic and summoned them or something after their creation.
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Old 2009-06-12, 21:55   Link #1297
Hareoic
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Originally Posted by hodil View Post
Anyone find it possible that Ryukishi would come up with some kind of new disease that only existed on Rokkenjima?

Oh and Im just curious... Why why why did Kyrie told Battler to believe...
From a antimystery point of view... Its possible that she was attacked by the golden threads... but from a antifantasy point of view... Isnt it more probable that she was threatened with a gun pointed at her to tell her to lie to Battler...? But then again... those locked rooms...[/COLOR]
I'm not so sure about a disease, but a hereditary trait has already been hinted at (just replace 'talent for magic' with something Anti-Fantasy). I'm convinced there's something unique about them, the servants, or the island. I just don't know what.

As for Kyrie,
Spoiler for Earlier theory, from what I can recall:
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Old 2009-06-12, 21:56   Link #1298
Hareoic
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That would be awesome. However for the Siesta's to know Maria's father, from a mystery perspective, she would have had to show him the bunnies. However if I'm remembering correctly Rosa said he abandoned them(whatever that means). Another way they could know him is if he was somehow partially responsible for Maria receiving them, like if he bought them and gave them to Rosa to give to her, but that seems unlikely as well. I guess Rosa could have lied about where she got them. If you're going for a purely fantasy perspective though I guess it could still work if for some reason Maria's father was into magic and summoned them or something after their creation.
Did it say that he left before she was born? And if so, did she receive the rabbits shortly before Sakutaro? I can't remember that part too well.
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Old 2009-06-12, 21:59   Link #1299
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I seem to remember that Rosa said Maria's father ran away as soon as she got pregnant or as soon as Maria has born.
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Old 2009-06-12, 22:02   Link #1300
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She said she hated Maria even before she was born, so that means he abandoned them before Maria was born.
But that's what was said in Maria's dream, so I dont know we can trust it or not.
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