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Old 2009-06-16, 05:17   Link #1441
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iskatar View Post
An irrelevant question, but why is Beatrice's nickname translated as "Beato" instead of "Beat" even though they're pronounced the same? Was it stated somewhere that her nickname is "Beato?"
That is because it is how it is in Japanese.
Aside of "n", all ending consonant must finish with o when it is T or D while the rest is with u (present => presento, game => gamu, etc).

Beat doesn't exist in Japanese, that's why it is "Beato" (well, if you really want the official form, it is: ベアト ).
As to why we chosed Beato instead of Beat, the thing is the whole nickname is much more focalised on pronunciation than actual spelling. Also, English community doesn't always know how Japanese characters ACTUALLY pronounce a name, so if we put Beat, they wouldn't expect it to be read "beato" (and less confusiion possible with the actual word "beat").
Of course, the names of everyone else are kept for consistency sake with Ryukishi's spelling, even if they are hardly the same (Battler >< Batora). Therefore, keeping how it is pronounced in Japanese flows better in this specific case and would leave less possible mess up if it is changed in the future.

Which was a good idea, considering Gaap calls her "riiche", which wouldn't make sense if we bluntly put "rice" (it would be even more confusing or misleading than it should be).
A real shortened name for Beatrice would have been Bea, not Beat.
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Old 2009-06-16, 06:43   Link #1442
hodil
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Its pretty strange Gohda and Kumasawa willingly went in...

They could have armed themselves in the shed or smth...

And judging by the events that took place in the living room... Those two escaped too easily...

Smell an accomplice?

Lets say Gohda was an accomplice... He placed the key by the window. The culprit after finishing his job, came by, unlocked the shed and entered and killed both of them and hid in the shed.

He sort of predicted Battler would come by and thus stayed there till it was opened.
Of course... this sounds horrendously stupid...
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Old 2009-06-16, 07:07   Link #1443
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Gohda and Kumasawa are definitely suspicious, however i have no idea how this closed room was made.

to change the subject, I have recently replayed the first 3 episodes (I've finished yesterday) taking note of any kind of information about dates and times (that's why lately I've talked so much about those). It might not be relevant to solve the mystery but I thought it could be still interesting.
All the following informations are based on actual texts in the game, in some cases I elaborated the data. For example while it has never been said that Shannon is 16, it is said that she started working when she was 6 and that she worked for 10 years.
Also, mind that some informations might not be true. Only a very few of these dates were confirmed in red, and people can lie, or have a bad memory.
There is an addendum at the end where I included informations that could be useful to understand times even so they do not directly point to any definitive date.

Quote:
1906 Ca. Kumasawa's birth
1923 Kanto earthquake exterminated the main family branch of the Ushiromiya and destroyed their wealth
1948 Ca. Captain Kawabata started transporting goods to Rokkenjima's Kuwadorian
1950 Kinzo made a huge fortune from the Korean war
1952 The Ushiromiya's Mansion on Rokkenjima was built
1956 Ca. Kinzo and his family moved from Odawara to Rokkenjima
1956 Ca. The legend of the witch in the forest became popular between the servants
1956 Ca. Rumors about a Kinzo's secret lover hidden somewhere in Rokkenjima started spreading
1956 Krauss's and Natsuhi's marriage
1963 George's birth
1967 Rosa met the Beatrice in the Kuwadorian, who died soon after escaping
1967 Both Kyrie and Asumu got pregnant
1967-1968 Rudolf's and Asumu's marriage
1968 Ca. Captain Kawabata stopped transporting goods to Rokkenjima's Kuwadorian
1968 Jessica's birth
1968 (15 July) Battler's birth
1970 Shannon's birth
1970 Kanon's birth
1976 Shannon starts working in the Ushiromiya's Mansion
1977 Maria's birth
1980 Battler committed a sin
1980 Asumu's death
1980 (Not much after Asumu's death) Rudolf's and Kyrie's marriage
1980 (After Rudolf's and Kyrie's marriage) Battler moved to his grandparents from his mother side
1980 (Supposedly after Rudolf's and Kyrie's marriage) Ange's birth
1983 Kanon started working in the Ushiromiya's Mansion
1984 Gohda started working in the Ushiromiya's Mansion
1984 The Guesthouse was built
1984 (April) The Witch's epitaph was written and exposed
1984 (October) Last time Kinzo showed up at the family meeting
1985 (October) Kinzo was diagnosed with about 3 months left to live
1986 (Summer) The Torii disappeared (supposedly after being hit by a lightning)
1986 (Before October) The last of Battler's grandparents from his mother side died

- Natsuhi is 3 years younger than Eva
- Eva is 2 years younger than Krauss
- Genji remembers Kinzo in his youth, so he must have served him for about 60 years
- Kumasawa served Kinzo for at least 30 years
- Nanjo have been friend with Kinzo for about 30 years, however he started attending the Ushiromiya's family meetings only recently.
- The Beatrice that supposedly lent the gold to Kinzo died in the year 1952 or before
- Young Beatrice says she and Kinzo haven't talked for 30 years
- Rosa says she was a middle schooler when she met Beatrice. So she should have born around 1952-1955
Rudolf confirms that since the time Rosa was a middle schooler about 20 years have passed
- Kinzo says that he met Beatrice after the war (1945+)
- Hideyoshi begun smoking right after the war, so he's probably around 55-60 years old
- When Rosa was a kid Eva and Krauss were already adults (20+), however Rudolf was still a minor.
- Rudolf was still in elementary school when the Ushiromiya family moved to Rokkenjima
- Eva used to play with Rosa when the latter was still a kindergartener (or so Eva says)
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Old 2009-06-16, 13:26   Link #1444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iskatar View Post
An irrelevant question, but why is Beatrice's nickname translated as "Beato" instead of "Beat" even though they're pronounced the same? Was it stated somewhere that her nickname is "Beato?"
Just to add onto what Klash had said..
A lot of people (myself included for the longest time), think that Beatrice's name is pronounceed "Bee-a-triss", which is the standard English way of saying it. But Ryuukishi went with the Italian way (since she's named from the Divine Comedy), and it's actually "Bay-a-tre-che"
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Old 2009-06-16, 14:10   Link #1445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
That is because it is how it is in Japanese.
Aside of "n", all ending consonant must finish with o when it is T or D while the rest is with u (present => presento, game => gamu, etc).

Beat doesn't exist in Japanese, that's why it is "Beato" (well, if you really want the official form, it is: ベアト ).
As to why we chosed Beato instead of Beat, the thing is the whole nickname is much more focalised on pronunciation than actual spelling. Also, English community doesn't always know how Japanese characters ACTUALLY pronounce a name, so if we put Beat, they wouldn't expect it to be read "beato" (and less confusiion possible with the actual word "beat").
Of course, the names of everyone else are kept for consistency sake with Ryukishi's spelling, even if they are hardly the same (Battler >< Batora). Therefore, keeping how it is pronounced in Japanese flows better in this specific case and would leave less possible mess up if it is changed in the future.

Which was a good idea, considering Gaap calls her "riiche", which wouldn't make sense if we bluntly put "rice" (it would be even more confusing or misleading than it should be).
A real shortened name for Beatrice would have been Bea, not Beat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrellord View Post
Just to add onto what Klash had said..
A lot of people (myself included for the longest time), think that Beatrice's name is pronounceed "Bee-a-triss", which is the standard English way of saying it. But Ryuukishi went with the Italian way (since she's named from the Divine Comedy), and it's actually "Bay-a-tre-che"
Thanks. That certainly cleared up a lot.
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Old 2009-06-16, 15:37   Link #1446
Kitsu
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I just reread a part in Ep4. The challenge or test for George and Jessica, with looking more at Jessica, her arguments for choosing so and the former Episodes.

What if Jessica made a different choice? i mean not that she was directly asked, just that she decided to do so and so and with that decided to actually with that answered.

For example, Ep 2.

Jessica herself decided because of circumstances and kinda made the second choice.
Jessica killed Kanon, threw him out of the window and then faked her death. And maybe "put an end to that woman herself"
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Old 2009-06-16, 18:10   Link #1447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsu View Post
Jessica herself decided because of circumstances and kinda made the second choice.
Jessica killed Kanon, threw him out of the window and then faked her death. And maybe "put an end to that woman herself"
You know, if there are, say, overhangs or balconies (not sure what the architectural terminology would be) in front of the windows, it would make his corpse very difficult to locate. Especially when it becomes dark outside.
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Old 2009-06-16, 20:39   Link #1448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsu View Post
I just reread a part in Ep4. The challenge or test for George and Jessica, with looking more at Jessica, her arguments for choosing so and the former Episodes.

What if Jessica made a different choice? i mean not that she was directly asked, just that she decided to do so and so and with that decided to actually with that answered.

For example, Ep 2.

Jessica herself decided because of circumstances and kinda made the second choice.
Jessica killed Kanon, threw him out of the window and then faked her death. And maybe "put an end to that woman herself"

That would destroy the whole "I luv Kanon" thing. Besides, I don't see why she would want to intentionally make herself miserable by killing the guy she loves. Unless he was cheating on her or something (For Kanon, Reimu>Marisa). XD
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Old 2009-06-16, 21:44   Link #1449
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Something amusing just occurred to me earlier,
Spoiler for The blue text that would win the game:
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Old 2009-06-16, 21:49   Link #1450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hareoic View Post
Something amusing just occurred to me earlier,
Spoiler for The blue text that would win the game:
Spoiler for blue:
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Old 2009-06-16, 21:52   Link #1451
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Beatrice never denied Kanon dying in an accident even though Lambda told otherwise. This would just result in Battler's defeat because Beato won't deny it.
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Old 2009-06-16, 22:08   Link #1452
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hareoic View Post
Something amusing just occurred to me earlier,
Spoiler for The blue text that would win the game:
That's not like that ; The win condition hasn't changed, Battler needs to prove that everything that happened on Rokkenjima betweeb 4 and 5 October 1986 could be done by human means. Beatrice needs to make Battler accept the existence of witches. The Blue text is just an addition that can't possibly change the above conditions.

As Chronotrig said Battler can only use it to deny witches. He can't even use it to say that "there are 5 master key". As for Beatrice using blue... that was a completely different game, so the rules are slightly different.
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Old 2009-06-16, 22:13   Link #1453
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You're right, my mistake. I'd forgotten about those particular rules.
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Old 2009-06-17, 05:55   Link #1454
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Spoiler for Long:
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Old 2009-06-17, 05:59   Link #1455
Klashikari
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That was a theory we have made back in Episode 2, the problem is that this is extremely cheap (as much as the "dead" doesn't count in the human number) because it would ALWAYS allow at least 3 free slots (hard to tell if Gohda, Kumasawa and Nanjo are considered as furniture, but considering how Kinzo was portrayed, I doubt it).
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Old 2009-06-17, 06:14   Link #1456
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I don't really get what you mean by it being cheap. There have been plenty of hints that Beatrice doesn't consider furniture to be human, so it's not exactly coming out of nowhere, and we can count 18 people in episode 4, so she's obviously getting around the red text somewhere. If not by messing with the definition of a person, how is she getting away with saying there are no more than 17 people on the island?
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Old 2009-06-17, 06:15   Link #1457
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Considering someone "non human" or "mere tools" doesn't mean it is the case. Beatrice mad speech are obviously personal, nothing past this point, so I have no idea why it should be considered as granted.

Anyway, Episode 3 certainly go against that idea anyway:

金蔵、源次、紗音、嘉音、郷田、熊沢の6人は死亡している!
Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa, 6 people in total are dead!

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Old 2009-06-17, 06:20   Link #1458
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Ah, that is a problem. Time to read it again, I guess.
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Old 2009-06-17, 06:57   Link #1459
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Originally Posted by Valentine View Post
Spoiler for Long:
There is also Eva-beato red truth:

-Absolutely no factors other than humans participate in this game board!

Since we are sure that Genji, Kanon and Shannon do participate in episode3's game, then they must be human.

A few weeks ago I was also wondering if dead people count as people. Actually that's an interesting question. Considering that someone is speculating that Kinzo's body is still on the island preserved somehow, you'd need to think that dead bodies do not count as people. That could be the reason to explain why Beatrice can't state a precise number but only "less people than X". However Beatrice always uses the present, so when she said "less than 17 people in every game"... But when a game actually starts? If it's after the first twilight then that doesn't mean much.

As for Battler using red. We don't clearly know how Ryukishi will manage this thing. It is obvious that if Battler could use red in regards of the crimes he'd get an enormous advantage on this game. Basically he could play it alone and that would kinda suck.
I hope EP5 will come with an explanation that will prevent Battler from doing so.
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Old 2009-06-17, 07:22   Link #1460
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My own personal explanation for that is that "Only when you're defending can you use red" and "only when you're attacking you can use blue".

Battler is attacking constantly to prove Beatrice is a witch, so he uses blue and she uses red.

When Beatrice attacks Battler to prove he isn't worthy of playing, she uses blue and he uses red.
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