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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Second Season - Episode 9 Rating
Perfect 10 97 61.78%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 28 17.83%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 21 13.38%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 5.10%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 0.64%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.27%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 157. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-11-30, 12:11   Link #221
PzIVf3
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I though the Ali decide to continue to fight but always making a retreat whenever he doesn't do anything.
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Old 2008-11-30, 12:13   Link #222
LightningZERO
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You mean Arios grabbing Seravee's shoulder? Allelujah was trying to stop Tieria from going after Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
Actually: Why didn't he just shot, instead of revealing an additional hand with a saber? I don't think Ali would have the time to dodge a shot.
I really can't think of a better reason except that it would have killed Ali and he couldn't die so early yet , and also to show more of Seravee's hidden gimmick
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Old 2008-11-30, 12:20   Link #223
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by Galerian View Post
For instance: when pilots are talking to each other over the radio and they make their MS look at each other.
Don't you look at the person you're talking to?

I think you're just nit-picking over nothing.
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Old 2008-11-30, 12:20   Link #224
Galerian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningZERO View Post
You mean Arios grabbing Seravee's shoulder? Allelujah was trying to stop Tieria from going after Ali
I know why he wanted to stop Tieria, but why did he need to grab Tieria's MS by the shoulder on top of using his radio. It has absolutely no purpose. I doubt he will be hanging on if Tieria did decide to give chase. Or do you think Arios could have restrained Seravee? On top of that: it is extremely dangerous. Seravee spinned arround (another why: just respond with your radio!) with a saber in hand. He could have cut Arios in half! In half! Use the radio: not body language with your MS!

It is silly.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
Don't you look at the person you're talking to?
Of course: but they have communicationscreens in their cockpits. Why would you even want to turn your entire MS. To make it clear who you are adressing? Are MS radiosystems that crappy?

Tankcommanders don't have to turn their tank's turret in the direction of another tank if they wish to communicate with that other tank do they?

Piloting a human shaped warmachine is no excuse for using body language!

Last edited by Galerian; 2008-11-30 at 12:38.
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Old 2008-11-30, 12:28   Link #225
seravee
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whether it's silly or not, i actually liked how alle stopped tieria. the whole thing isnt quite practical so i wouldnt be too bothered re how dangerous move that was... to me it was just cool!

totally LOVED this episode. 10/10.
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Old 2008-11-30, 12:29   Link #226
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Galerian:

I think it's been a constant in Gundam. Well, regarding what you said, if you watched Gundam Seed, the episode where the Kusanagi was trying to get to space, covered by Justice and Freedom? Clinging on to the speeding spaceship, Freedom used the other outstretched arm to pull Justice in. I wondered about that for a while, but I guess it's just one of those things. After all, a Gundam design itself already ain't really realistic. So I just live with it.

EDIT:

Err, I think you mixed the names up. Cherudim is piloted by Lyle. Allelujah pilots Arios.
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Old 2008-11-30, 12:36   Link #227
Galerian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer Tomato View Post
Galerian:

I think it's been a constant in Gundam. Well, regarding what you said, if you watched Gundam Seed, the episode where the Kusanagi was trying to get to space, covered by Justice and Freedom? Clinging on to the speeding spaceship, Freedom used the other outstretched arm to pull Justice in. I wondered about that for a while, but I guess it's just one of those things. After all, a Gundam design itself already ain't really realistic. So I just live with it.

EDIT:

Err, I think you mixed the names up. Cherudim is piloted by Lyle. Allelujah pilots Arios.
I know. I know.

I am not saying this type of thing is exclusively limited to Gundam 00 and I don't find it that big a deal either. It doesn't make this episode any less good or enjoyable. It is just silly And you are of course correct: I got the names wrong. It has been corrected for future readers of my ramblings.

Then again (and I said it before): For a show portraying war, they might want to take it a bit more seriously.
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Old 2008-11-30, 12:36   Link #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galerian View Post
I know why he wanted to stop Tieria, but why did he need to grab Tieria's MS by the shoulder on top of using his radio. It has absolutely no purpose. I doubt he will be hanging on if Tieria did decide to give chase. Or do you think Cherubim could have restrained Seravee? On top of that: it is extremely dangerous. Seravee spinned arround (another why: just respond with your radio!) with a saber in hand. He could have cut Cherubim in half! In half! Use the radio: not body language with your MS!
You mean Arios, which is Allelujah's machine, and not Cherudim.

And physical contact is often more persuasive in stopping a person than mere words. Try stopping someone who's running away from you with words alone. Unless you have something very interesting to say, the only way to stop said person would be to grab him AND THEN talking to him. This is basic human psychology that applies in real life.

This applies even in mobile suit piloting. The pilot may not necessarily feel it personally, but they can still feel the restraint of any object that prevents their mobile suit from moving forward. This is especially true with Tieria since if you believe the novels, Tieria can control MS simply with his thoughts, though the point still stands no matter how the pilot controls their MS.

Had Alle not put his the Arios' hand to restrain Seravee Tieria would've just chased after Ali, since words wouldn't have had an impact at this point.
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Old 2008-11-30, 12:37   Link #229
SagaraSouske
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
I didn't really understand, what Ali was doing there in the first place.

I liked the tactics in the spisode, how they all anticipated the moves of the other side, like playing chess. But what I didn't really get: When exactly did the 00 launch? Was it before the whole operation, or somewhere inbetween?

And: Why did they let all the drives go into Trans-am at the same time? Wouldn't it also be possible, to let them go into Trans-Am one after another, to lengthen the time for the ship?

I guess the info about Trans-Am and Twin-Drive was given to the Innovators by Wang.

00 is launched while Ptolemy II is in atmosphere. It was the backup Sumeragi planned after seeing the angle of trajectory got deviated by Gadessa's beam cannon.
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Old 2008-11-30, 12:39   Link #230
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A-Laws stole X-men plane. Rofl.

Eh? So the guns that 00 was using to blow the ship up wasn't 0 riser or w/e?
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Old 2008-11-30, 12:56   Link #231
Galerian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post

This applies even in mobile suit piloting. The pilot may not necessarily feel it personally, but they can still feel the restraint of any object that prevents their mobile suit from moving forward. This is especially true with Tieria since if you believe the novels, Tieria can control MS simply with his thoughts, though the point still stands no matter how the pilot controls their MS.

Had Alle not put his the Arios' hand to restrain Seravee Tieria would've just chased after Ali, since words wouldn't have had an impact at this point.
No. That isn't the way it works at all. Tieiria might have a justification if he controls his suits by thought alone (even if it implies Tieiria unconscious moves his MS from time to time: which is extremely dangerous). For other pilots it is even more silly as they need to pilot their MS in a way to mimick human body language.

As for Arios NEEDING to restrain Seravee: more silliness. Are you saying that if these were warplanes, Tieria couldn't have been stopped at all (short of crashing another plane into him)? Nah. Radio only would work just fine. What does it even matter if Tieria gives chase for another few hundred meter or so? It is not as if their radios have such short range, right?
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Old 2008-11-30, 13:05   Link #232
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Originally Posted by Galerian View Post
No. That isn't the way it works at all. Tieiria might have a justification if he controls his suits by thought alone (even if it implies Tieiria unconscious moves his MS from time to time: which is extremely dangerous). For other pilots it is even more silly as they need to pilot their MS in a way to mimick human body language.

As for Arios NEEDING to restrain Seravee: more silliness. Are you saying that if these were warplanes, Tieria couldn't have been stopped at all (short of crashing another plane into him)? Nah. Radio only would work just fine. What does it even matter if Tieria gives chase for another few hundred meter or so? It is not as if their radios have such short range, right?
It's hardly silly considering that MS seem to be able to perfectly translate and mimic human movement, and it's shown to be easy for the pilots to do this (one of the most basic principles of robot anime you just have to accept). Hence, the most basic thing most people would do is to grab/hold the person to stop them, and since a mobile suit can mimic this action, they'll apply that movement for this situation as well. Even with the threatening action of swinging the beam saber at Alle, it forced Tieria to stop and deal with his teammates who will obviously stop him with physical force, which is better than spouting words that fall on deaf ears.

And yes, I'm saying you cannot stop someone in an airplane with words alone, or else combat pilots wouldn't need to use threatening, authoritative language and force like the word of international law and warning shots to get another aircraft to comply to their wishes. Warplanes and Mobile suits are different though, and unlike aircraft mobile suits can stop and be stopped in mid air.

And what do you think Allelujah can say that will placate Tieria's obvious rage at the time? Tieria's personality and desire for revenge is such that had he not been stopped he might've chased Ali to the ends of the earth. Had Alle not stopped him Tieria would've brought more trouble for the team.

Like they say, actions speak louder than words, and they're more effective too. Words are only effective when preceded or suceeded by use of physical force.
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Old 2008-11-30, 13:11   Link #233
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
Shame she didn't grow up in the 80s --- she would have fitted in perfectly!
We can imagine it all in our heads.
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Old 2008-11-30, 13:16   Link #234
ChaosPaladin
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i still think the hand from the knee part is stupid when the cannon would have been more effective
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Old 2008-11-30, 13:37   Link #235
hatenshu
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pff
i liked that,it' the proof that sunrise can still surprise us
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Old 2008-11-30, 13:40   Link #236
astranagun
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i still think the hand from the knee part is stupid when the cannon would have been more effective
I don't think the knee saber is stupid given the situation.
The cannon would have more disavantage then the saber: it cannot move horizotally/vertically so the only part that could be hit would be the legs, it has charge time and if the shot miss it wouldn't be ready istantly for another use.
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Old 2008-11-30, 13:41   Link #237
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Originally Posted by ChaosPaladin View Post
i still think the hand from the knee part is stupid when the cannon would have been more effective
Yeah,right.Ali will probably dodge the cannon shot.
After all,Sunrise won't let Ali get killed by a cannon shot so soon.
Hopefully Seravee had more hidden gimmick to be unleashed,can't wait to see it deploy those knee hand again.
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Old 2008-11-30, 13:44   Link #238
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As explained by astranagun, the beam saber had the advantage of being able to be used rapidly in succession once deployed, and given the close combat situation that Seravee had forced the Arche into IMHO Tieria probably didn't want to let Arche have a chance in the case that he did evade the cannon shot (which as shown Ali is very capable of). Even if he missed, the flexibility of the cannon arm would allow Tieria to harass the Arche at close range.

Unfortunately for Tieria, it turned out that Arche has it's own secret gimmick that perfectly countered his own.
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Old 2008-11-30, 13:50   Link #239
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I love how ships lose their bridge an instantly blow up. Apparently they have all the vital parts housed in the bridge.
What's the point of having a battleship/carrier if it can be taken out by a single mobile suit? Why not have a GN Field for the damn thing, or how about submarine-like design with the "bridge" inside the ship rather than on top? With the bridge inside the enemy wouldn't have an obvious target, and he'd have to get through the thick armor that should have thick anti-beam coating + a GN field to begin with.
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Old 2008-11-30, 13:58   Link #240
Galerian
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@LoweGear

I disagree with you.

I don't think it is easy or natural for a pilot to mimick human body language in a MS using buttons and the like. It might be very easy in their universe (they might have some human-body-language shortkeys programmed in their OS), but I am talking about how it compares to the real world. The verdict: silly.

And we are not talking about opposing factions here. Real world pilots don't have to fire warning shots at each other to make their points come across. Radio communications alone are enough to make some one see the sense of an action. Trust me. If Tieria was really hell bend on going after Ali, not even someone grasping his shoulder should have stopped him. But it did, so he wasn't.

It remains silly and dangerous.
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