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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Second Season - Episode 9 Rating
Perfect 10 97 61.78%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 28 17.83%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 21 13.38%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 5.10%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 0.64%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.27%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 157. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-12-05, 08:40   Link #441
NyxOne
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Okay, I'm being a picky bastard here, but...he never stole anything from any other suit. That was the only time he ever used someone's weapon against them.
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Old 2008-12-05, 08:41   Link #442
LoweGear
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Originally Posted by NyxOne View Post
Well:

* Joshua also pulled off Graham's trick...for all that did. I'm pretty sure that, weren't the move treated like something entirely unique, other pilots could have done it as well.

* Fighting's often done at breakneck pace.

* Aaaand...he only ever stole the Eins' beam saber.

Plus the transforming sort of got old after a while...
1. Still, it is treated as something unique - Joshua does say that Graham's move wasn't only his when he performed his transformation. Also the "Graham Special" is a widely known name throughout the 00verse, as testified in 00V.

2. He does it faster than other pilots of his league in the same machine. He's the only one shown who pushes his Flag along with his own body over the limit.

3. He only ever stole Ein's beam saber... but tell me who else in both seasons have performed such a feat.
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Old 2008-12-05, 08:46   Link #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyxOne View Post
Okay, I'm being a picky bastard here, but...he never stole anything from any other suit. That was the only time he ever used someone's weapon against them.
Because the situation called for? Didn't that just prove he's the one who can adapt and react to whatever the situation is?
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Old 2008-12-05, 08:50   Link #444
NyxOne
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Hm...well, I will concede that Graham does push his own self and his Flag over the limit often, and with that fact from 00V, I suppose his trick- though it apparently isn't only his- has some renown.

(Personally, I still reckon Ali's the better pilot, though...we've never seen Graham take on more than one Gundam at a time, and every time, it's been Exia- save for facing Dynames twice.)

And I also concede about the saber issue. (Though, as apparently conventional as that is, he's only done it once...meh.)
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Old 2008-12-05, 09:15   Link #445
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It's not whether each pilot is good, but whether they're unconventional, i.e. doing things out of the norm.

As for the Graham Special... the "Graham Maneuver" as it's more widely known was coined because Graham was the very first pilot to actually transform a mobile suit in mid-air... and he did it on his first time flying the Flag with little training! (source: Drama CD 2).
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Old 2008-12-05, 14:22   Link #446
wtfftw
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Originally Posted by SeedFreedom View Post
So we essentially went in a big circle that while agreeing practically the federation will have some influence, we still dont agree weather legally a-laws have autonomy or not. Frankly i'm too tired to keep repeating myself.
im not entirely sure as to what it actually was you were trying to go at but at some points you were switching. At some points you were right however others you either said something completely else from earlier statements

Quote:
1. Government. (A-LAWS is no government/or a governmental body that does politics. If however they do practice politics elections and shit I would take back what i said earlier)
a. self-governing; independent; subject to its own laws only.
b. pertaining to an autonomy.

2. having autonomy; not subject to control from outside; independent:
a subsidiary that functioned as an autonomous unit.

unit of/part of the federation however can decide on its own policies But can be overruled in severe/serious cases.

3. Biology.(dont really need to go on this cuz ist about biology)
a. existing and functioning as an independent organism.
b. spontaneous.
Autonomous and independence have some overlap however they are not entirely the same. Autonomous has to do with the fact that the group/organization(might even apply it to countries) can decide on its own rules how it will practice stuff whereas normally this directly ordered from above in the case of autonomous units like A-LAWS they can set up within A-LAWS how they want and how they will practice this to outside world. The fact they are allowed to do this is granted by the government they support. The independence in these descriptions relates to the fact they can decide on their own policies within the autonomous units without having to listen to the government. The LAPD can not say from this day we will hold every arrested person in a police jail for 40 days if this isnt allowed by the ruling government. However A autonomous private organization who has been given rights to apprehend serious convicts can for example decide to hold such a person for 40 days if that is their policy now. This they can only do if the granted rights allows them these special rights. This off course has to be taken in to account with elections and stuff.

The independence of an autonomous unit relates to the fact that they are allowed to do as they please WITHIN their jurisdiction.

For example you might have the federal police/army now rules of engagement and other issues are directly ordered from the government. In the case of an autonomous police /army force. the autonomous units will be granted rights to set up their force how they want(payment/court martial rules of engagement / mission statement) as long as it does not contradict or harms the governments politics. However when such a autonomous unit region becomes a problem to the governmental body that granted them rights they will be taken care of very fast. These are the restriction im talking about.

example:
America is an independent country which can decide what it will do for itself with the president as its leader.

Hongkong as an autonomous region with its own social structure however China can still overrule them when needed.

again the point is not so much the actual definition but the discussion was about how A-LAWS is within the federation

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Anyways... Godwin's Law has been applied. Would suggest a change of discussion references
lol ok xD

Anyway even though its not pilotiing skills the simple fact is fighting in a samurai stance and wearing a samurai mask is already unconventional.

If i would have to say anything i'd say Ali is Tezuka and graham is Fuji XD

Ali i think is slightly a better pilot. and he has an awesome suit. AND geuss what nyxone you were actually right on him being better. I blame the fact graham doesnt have a gundam though xP.
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Old 2008-12-05, 14:38   Link #447
NyxOne
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Well, there's that jet-black suit in development...I personally reckon, though, even with that, that if the two faced off, Ali would win- because, despite his lack of unconventionality, he's damn ruthless, and he doesn't mind fighting other peoples' kinds of fights just to troll them- hence, he wouldn't mind fighting by Graham's 'rules'.
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Old 2008-12-05, 16:23   Link #448
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Bleh....Neither Ali nor Graham has given me that "wtf" in battle yet....As to who is more unconventional....I would place Ali over Graham. I enjoy Ali fights more than Graham, as they somewhat reminds me of Kira in the strike screwing everyone.
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Old 2008-12-05, 17:24   Link #449
wtfftw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyxOne View Post
Well, there's that jet-black suit in development...I personally reckon, though, even with that, that if the two faced off, Ali would win- because, despite his lack of unconventionality, he's damn ruthless, and he doesn't mind fighting other peoples' kinds of fights just to troll them- hence, he wouldn't mind fighting by Graham's 'rules'.
so your saying ruthless is the reason why ali is better? I still want graham to have a gundam its sounds childish but i cant believe that at this point billy could make a suit on the lvl of gundams.

On another note who buys this whole innovators Go into space with human kind thing. What was the old man thinking.

1) earth is full
2) Some hidden facility with technology in space
3) Aliens?
4) lie
5) fuel problem?

I mean even if they go into space people will still fight make wars etc.

And to me it looks like Tiera is going against Aeolia Schenberg, if Regene Regetta said the truth or what it revival who said that?
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Old 2008-12-05, 17:31   Link #450
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Except...he can't. For very, very obvious reasons pertaining to Jupiter. That, and unlike the Innovators, the A-LAWS/Federation can't make something that resembles or 'is' a Gundam like the Arche.

And, yes- ruthlessness is the reason Ali's better. He's a war machine, a wild dog, and Graham lacks that utter mercilessness that Ali has.
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Old 2008-12-05, 18:14   Link #451
wtfftw
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Originally Posted by NyxOne View Post
Except...he can't. For very, very obvious reasons pertaining to Jupiter. That, and unlike the Innovators, the A-LAWS/Federation can't make something that resembles or 'is' a Gundam like the Arche.

And, yes- ruthlessness is the reason Ali's better. He's a war machine, a wild dog, and Graham lacks that utter mercilessness that Ali has.
yeah thats why im gonna be still disappointed with the mecha he is gonna get cuz its just gonna be lower spec wise anyway.

I dont see how ruthless equals to skill. I mean there alot of ruthless morons out there who cant beat graham. I do think piloting skills matter.
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Old 2008-12-05, 18:17   Link #452
NyxOne
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Of course they matter- and Ali has shown himself time and time again to be a good pilot. The thing is, he has the upper hand because of his ruthlessness simply because of how fierce he is, and also because Graham, quite unlike Ali, now fights by a strict code of honor- and Ali isn't the most honorable fellow around.
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Old 2008-12-05, 18:17   Link #453
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Originally Posted by wtfftw View Post
yeah thats why im gonna be still disappointed with the mecha he is gonna get cuz its just gonna be lower spec wise anyway.

I dont see how ruthless equals to skill. I mean there alot of ruthless morons out there who cant beat graham. I do think piloting skills matter.
It doesn't. Ruthless equals to strategy. Graham spared Setsuna and 00 Gundam. Ali wouldn't have, because he's ruthless. He's not stupid and he wouldn't leave an enemy to get in his way again if they were already down. Graham has honor. Ali doesn't. He's not above using tricks to win, while Graham is. Graham would lose against Ali.
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Old 2008-12-05, 18:53   Link #454
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Ali is simply the superior pilot no matter how you look at it. His only weakness is that he likes to troll his opponents instead of delivering the death blow immediately.

Ali has also shown a constant high performance unlike for instance Setsuna. Graham is probably not far from being on par with Ali, but I think he lacks the agility and creativity in battle that Ali shows.
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Old 2008-12-05, 19:57   Link #455
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As far as I know, Ali is much better than Setsuna and can beat him within 1 minute. Graham is also better than Setsuna but not much. So of course Ali is stronger than Graham.
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Old 2008-12-05, 23:42   Link #456
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Originally Posted by gaoyuanyuan1 View Post
As far as I know, Ali is much better than Setsuna and can beat him within 1 minute. Graham is also better than Setsuna but not much. So of course Ali is stronger than Graham.
I agree Ali is better than Graham/Bushido & Setsuna but it's only for the moment.It's too early to judge these guys piloting skill.
Hopefully Ali don't troll his opponent too much or he would end up doing his signature "Tactical Retreat".Unlike Bushido who always fight to his limit.
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Old 2008-12-06, 01:02   Link #457
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
It doesn't. Ruthless equals to strategy. Graham spared Setsuna and 00 Gundam. Ali wouldn't have, because he's ruthless. He's not stupid and he wouldn't leave an enemy to get in his way again if they were already down. Graham has honor. Ali doesn't. He's not above using tricks to win, while Graham is. Graham would lose against Ali.
Had the same situation happened to Ali, he'd probably let Setsuna go. It wouldn't be fun for him if he didn't, especially with the "what if it was completed?" thoughts going through his head.

Remember even though he could have just shot Johann, he let him get into his MS so they could fight on equal terms.
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Old 2008-12-06, 01:06   Link #458
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Originally Posted by Village Idiot View Post
Had the same situation happened to Ali, he'd probably let Setsuna go. It wouldn't be fun for him if he didn't, especially with the "what if it was completed?" thoughts going through his head.

Remember even though he could have just shot Johann, he let him get into his MS so they could fight on equal terms.
Nah, Ali would just pull the cockpit open and kill Setsuna. He would want to KEEP the 00 Gundam.

The only thing that Ali was shown to want other than money, is military upgrades. Ali isn't going to leave such a prize behind.
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Old 2008-12-06, 03:55   Link #459
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Actually he does. He definitely knows about Trans-am, being the first person to ever go up against it.
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Old 2008-12-06, 03:56   Link #460
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Actually he does. He definitely knows about Trans-am, being the first person to ever go up against it.
He may not know that Trans-AM is a function directly within the GN-Drive.
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