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Old 2008-12-02, 21:09   Link #61
C.A.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
If i recall, there actually doesn't seem to be any indication that abandoning a crew is a requirement... as in it wwas just assumption, a work of fanon, due to the fact that Mihawk traveled alone, Croc had no crew and Arlong left Jimbei

Arlong left with many fishmen after Jimbei became a shichibukai, but that does not mean they were required to... arlong may have easily just decided to leave and pursue his own ambitions... Jimbei himself may even still have followers

Furtharmore, no statement of a bounty is not evidence of a lack of a bounty. I mean, Boa was only given an intial bounty but that doesn't mean its her final bounty before becoming a shichibukai... and we know that no bounty has ever been mentioned for Ace, Mihawk, Marco, or any number of other pirates. As such, the boa sisters could have bounties as well, they just were not mentioned...

And hell, Bellemy's crew being a secret from the world gov't could be another assumption based on the false premise that Shichibukai must leave their crews. Consider for instance Jaya; it was practically a pirate's nest and yet there were no marines ever to be seen... why would the marines over look a nest for pirates? only possibilities would be that the mariens did not know about it, or that Doflamingo asked them to ignore the island

Just because Croc, Kuma, and Mihawk did not have crews does not mean they were required to leave them behind... Mihawk could have always been a loner, Kuma may have traded his crew away when he became a pacifista (or maybe he was ALWAYS on the gov't payroll and his time as a pirate was just an act to set him up as a shichibukai), and Croc may have viewed his crew members as a libality to his plans; unlike baroque works which never new who he was and thus could not expose him.
You could be right.

But the title of a Shichibukai is like a form of Knighthood, bestowed by the King. Afterall, its Royal Seven Warriors of the Seas.

If the WG is to request help from the Shichibukai, its only towards them and not their crew. The Shichibukai are no longer considered pirates as they have their bounties removed, their crew however are still pirates and can still be arrested.

And back to my original mention of Shichibukai as a power not including their crew. Even if I include their crews, the powers are the crews vs marines and the big names vs the other big names.

WG 3 Admirals vs 7 Shichibukai vs 4 Yonkou.
WG marines vs Shichibukai crew vs Yonkou crew.
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Old 2008-12-02, 21:54   Link #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
You could be right.

But the title of a Shichibukai is like a form of Knighthood, bestowed by the King. Afterall, its Royal Seven Warriors of the Seas.

If the WG is to request help from the Shichibukai, its only towards them and not their crew. The Shichibukai are no longer considered pirates as they have their bounties removed, their crew however are still pirates and can still be arrested.

And back to my original mention of Shichibukai as a power not including their crew. Even if I include their crews, the powers are the crews vs marines and the big names vs the other big names.

WG 3 Admirals vs 7 Shichibukai vs 4 Yonkou.
WG marines vs Shichibukai crew vs Yonkou crew.
Sorry, C.A. got it right.
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Old 2008-12-02, 21:54   Link #63
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Actually, her initial bounty of 80 million was indeed the bounty she had before becoming a warlord. She became the empress of Amazon Lily and captain of the Kuja pirates 11 years ago, and subsequently earned herself the said bounty after one voyage at sea. This immediately got the attention of the World Government, and being aware of her dangerous potential, they offered her the warlord position right away. If you need further clarification, look at the two bottom panels on page 6 in chapter 522.


Heh, I nearly forgot about that particular detail myself. But it makes sense, as well. I mean, Crocodile was obviously a lot more dangerous than his former bounty implied (which is a mere 1 million berry higher than Hancock's), and Oda even admitted that his bounty would have doubled if it were still active. So for all we know, Hancock's bounty could be triple or even quadruple the amount of her initial bounty if she weren't a Shichibukai now (which would be as high as Moria's former bounty, interestingly enough).....
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Old 2008-12-02, 21:57   Link #64
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How about we just call 3 admirals part of Marines?

If they were so strong there would be no need for the small fry. But of course there is. So stop counting the 3 admirals as the entire force. Theres also sengoku which everyone is forgetting.
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Old 2008-12-02, 22:15   Link #65
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Originally Posted by Freya View Post
How about we just call 3 admirals part of Marines?

If they were so strong there would be no need for the small fry. But of course there is. So stop counting the 3 admirals as the entire force. Theres also sengoku which everyone is forgetting.
Also applies it this way: If Yonkou were so strong, would they need small fry? Well I'm just equalising the equation here.

So since you've pushed the 3 Admirals into the Marines and then Sengoku in as well.

Doesn't that mean I have to push 'Pirates' into Yonkou? Since the Marines' direct enemies are the pirates.

On the other hand, if indeed the Admirals are really a weak force in the balance of the 3 powers, that they needed Shichibukai to keep the balance against Yonkou:

WG + Shichibukai = Yonkou
3y + 7y = 4x
10y = 4x
2.5y = x

1 Yonkou can take on 2.5 the strength of Marines or Shichibukai?

Doesn't that just further support why Sengoku needs to gather such a large force against Whitebeard?
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Old 2008-12-02, 22:23   Link #66
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Let's not forget people,
Moria rivaled Kaidou [An Emperor]
Mihawk is stronger than Shanks [Emperor]
Blackbeard is most likely stronger than Shanks since he was able to injure Shanks without his devil fruit ability. Now that Blackbeard has his devil fruit abilty he is possibly stronger.
I don't think teams neccassarily mean anything. It mostly depends on the individual's power.

Also, Shichibukai don't fight together, last chapter stated they don't.
Even in this upcoming war they won't work together.
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Old 2008-12-02, 22:27   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya View Post
If they were so strong there would be no need for the small fry. But of course there is. So stop counting the 3 admirals as the entire force. Theres also sengoku which everyone is forgetting.
let's be honest, in a massive battle like this upcoming one, anything less than a vice admiral(might even bump that down to commodore level) with a few exceptions (like some NAMED lower rank character) are hardly worth considering... even that battle at enies lobby made captain class marines look like nothing but stronger than average peons; just strong enough to cause some trouble to those tired and wounded from previous fights but wouldn't stand much of a chance against said fighters at 100%

the purpose of the small fry is to deal with other small fry... The top dogs can't be everywhere at once and they are hardly needed everywhere at once; as many criminals are small fry... The small fry are sent to fight any battle where it would be a waste of time to send someone stronger... but when it comes down to it, those small fry matter so little that when they try to take on someone in the upper tier, they end up getting wiped out by the thousands (such as Luffy taking down 2,000 men without breaking a sweet)... the only ones that might matter are the ones working the cannons on the battleships; though even then canons often aren't all that effective agaisnt the strongest characters... or and i guess stirring and maintence of the ship needs to be done by SOME ONE...

it's a truth to pretty much all shonen... the strength of the characters get so ridiculously high that the rest are practically insects by comparison... hell, one thing i found funny about Bleach is that they practically admitted this truth when they said the military might of soul society resides in the captains and vice captains and that loosing half of them was like cutting their military might in half (so much for the hundreds of other shimigami)...

ofcourse the TRUE purpose of the small frys in shonen is to act as canon fodder to make the powerful characters look all the more powerful when they get totally wiped out... Also they serve to create the atmosphere of a large world as the world would seem small if it was only one person in any given town to keep the peace... personally, i do think that stronger peons would make things a bit more interesting since even the stronger characters can't be to reckless, as charging into a few dozen peons could leave a few too many wounds before going into a real fight...
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Old 2008-12-02, 22:29   Link #68
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Well, the truth is that the balance has already been toppled since Blackbeard became a Shichibukai. In fact the strongest force is actually the Shichibukai, despite Luffy taking down a couple of them. But again the good thing for both WG and Yonkou is that the Shichibukai wouldn't work with each other.

While the WG employs the Shichibukai to help them counter the Yonkou, at the same time they have to keep the Shichibukai in check and not let them go wild with their dreams of becoming pirate kings.

With Blackbeard becoming one, it seems that he is becoming a threat that will topple the world balance as Shanks and Kuma knows.

EDIT: Oh and the equation now looks more like:

3WG + 4Yonkou = 7Shichibukai

7 on both sides.
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Old 2008-12-02, 22:51   Link #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Well, the truth is that the balance has already been toppled since Blackbeard became a Shichibukai. In fact the strongest force is actually the Shichibukai, despite Luffy taking down a couple of them. But again the good thing for both WG and Yonkou is that the Shichibukai wouldn't work with each other.

While the WG employs the Shichibukai to help them counter the Yonkou, at the same time they have to keep the Shichibukai in check and not let them go wild with their dreams of becoming pirate kings.

With Blackbeard becoming one, it seems that he is becoming a threat that will topple the world balance as Shanks and Kuma knows.

EDIT: Oh and the equation now looks more like:

3WG + 4Yonkou = 7Shichibukai

7 on both sides.

You got it BABY!!!^^^^
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Old 2008-12-02, 22:54   Link #70
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I just remembered Alvida arrived at the prison.
Who wants to bet Alvida and Hancock will have a cat fight over Luffy?!
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Old 2008-12-02, 23:09   Link #71
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Uh... according to a summary update I just saw, Buggy actually managed to escape from Impel Down before Luffy and Hancock arrived, and is actually willing to help out Ace. If that's not proof of Buggy's awesomeness right there, I don't know what is.



Oh, and apparently there's some kind of minotaur creature being held in the prison, too (probably a Zoan DF user). Possibly one of the prison guards....?



Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phenomenol View Post
I just remembered Alvida arrived at the prison.
Who wants to bet Alvida and Hancock will have a cat fight over Luffy?!


As far as I know, Alvida hasn't arrived at Impel Down yet because of a Sea King. As far as her encountering Hancock goes.... I don't really want to think about it, personally (bleh).
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Old 2008-12-02, 23:22   Link #72
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Uh... according to a summary update I just saw, Buggy actually managed to escape from Impel Down before Luffy and Hancock arrived, and is actually willing to help out Ace. If that's not proof of Buggy's awesomeness right there, I don't know what is.



Oh, and apparently there's some kind of minotaur creature being held in the prison, too (probably a Zoan DF user). Possibly one of the prison guards....?







As far as I know, Alvida hasn't arrived at Impel Down yet because of a Sea King. As far as her encountering Hancock goes.... I don't really want to think about it, personally (bleh).
What awesomeness? I still don't see any. They were friends. Rivals but still friends. I'm sure Buggy himself wouldn't want to see Ace getting executed.
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Old 2008-12-02, 23:23   Link #73
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As far as I know, Alvida hasn't arrived at Impel Down yet because of a Sea King. As far as her encountering Hancock goes.... I don't really want to think about it, personally (bleh).
Ah, thanks for the clarification.
Yeah I agree with ya about Hancock and Alvida fighting over Luffy being bleh.
Hancock even falling for Luffy is bleh personally.
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Old 2008-12-02, 23:24   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phenomenol View Post
Let's not forget people,
Moria rivaled Kaidou [An Emperor]
Mihawk is stronger than Shanks [Emperor]
Blackbeard is most likely stronger than Shanks since he was able to injure Shanks without his devil fruit ability. Now that Blackbeard has his devil fruit abilty he is possibly stronger.
I don't think teams neccassarily mean anything. It mostly depends on the individual's power.

Also, Shichibukai don't fight together, last chapter stated they don't.
Even in this upcoming war they won't work together.
Luffy beat Moria....so with transitive property....Luffy rivals Kaidou?

Seriously where did all this math come from?
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Old 2008-12-02, 23:25   Link #75
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Originally Posted by Freya View Post
Luffy beat Moria....so with transitive property....Luffy rivals Kaidou?

Seriously where did all this math come from?
I didn't bring up any math but what we did use is called POWER SCAILING.
I was just saying the Shichibukai can handle Emeperors individually.
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Old 2008-12-02, 23:25   Link #76
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Originally Posted by The Phenomenol View Post
Ah, thanks for the clarification.
Yeah I agree with ya about Hancock and Alvida fighting over Luffy being bleh.
Hancock even falling for Luffy is bleh personally.
Hancock already>Alvida

Who needs a DF to look pretty? not Hancock.

Hancock wins.
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Old 2008-12-02, 23:25   Link #77
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What awesomeness? I still don't see any. They were friends. Rivals but still friends. I'm sure Buggy himself wouldn't want to see Ace getting executed.


^ I was more or less referring to the fact that Buggy managed to escape from Impel Down. If he was able to bust out of prison despite all of the hoopla over Ace, then that would prove that there's more to him than meets the eye. I always thought that Buggy was highly underrated.....
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Old 2008-12-02, 23:26   Link #78
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
^ I was more or less referring to the fact that Buggy managed to escape from Impel Down. If he was able to bust out of prison despite all of the hoopla over Ace, then that would prove that there's more to him than meets the eye. I always thought that Buggy was highly underrated.....
Agreed. I can't wait to see what Buggy can do.

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Originally Posted by The Phenomenol View Post
Let's not forget people,
Moria rivaled Kaidou [An Emperor]
Moria rivaled someone that became a Yonkou. There is nothing to indicate that Moria or Kaidou had their titles at the time that they fought. Added to that, Kaidou by him/herself equaled Moria and his entire crew, and it is unknown if the past Moria could equal the current Kaidou (considering the fact that we have no idea what the current Kaidou can do). Added to that, Luffy also beat Moria, and just judging Luffy's abilities next to Rayleigh, someone presumably equal in strength to a Yonkou, I see no way that Luffy is equal to Rayleigh who can act as a stand-in for Kaidou.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phenomenol View Post
Mihawk is stronger than Shanks [Emperor]
Again this has never been confirmed. Simply because Mihawk refused to fight Shanks does not mean that Mihawk is more powerful. Added to that, Mihawk could be the most powerful Shichibukai, meaning that he equaling or potentially surpassing a Yonkou would not be indicative of either organization/title.; it would simply mean that Mihawk is powerful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phenomenol View Post
Blackbeard is most likely stronger than Shanks since he was able to injure Shanks without his devil fruit ability. Now that Blackbeard has his devil fruit abilty he is possibly stronger.
For all we know, Blackbeard surprised Shanks, and then Shanks beat the shit out of Blackbeard (who also bears several scars across his body). We cannot say that Blackbeard is stronger simply because he gave Shanks a scar or because Blackbeard has a powerful DF. For example, the Sea King that took Shanks arm was certainly not stronger than Shanks, just looking at the beast caused it to flee.

Obviously the Shichibukai are powerful, and two of them fighting together can probably defeat almost any character we have seen fight thus far (except possibly Whitebeard), but if just 1 Shichibukai was equal to 1 Yonkou, then the Yonkou would not currently exist considering that the WG using either the marines of Shichibukai would have more than enough power to defeat the Yonkou.
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Old 2008-12-02, 23:32   Link #79
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
For all we know, Blackbeard surprised Shanks, and then Shanks beat the shit out of Blackbeard (who also bears several scars across his body). We cannot say that Blackbeard is stronger simply because he gave Shanks a scar or because Blackbeard has a powerful DF. For example, the Sea King that took Shanks arm was certainly not stronger than Shanks, just looking at the beast caused it to flee.



Uh, Shanks clearly tells Whitebeard that he wasn't being careless when Blackbeard gave him that scar. So yeah, it's definitely implied that Blackbeard was pretty darn strong before he ate the darkness fruit....
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Old 2008-12-02, 23:38   Link #80
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Uh, Shanks clearly tells Whitebeard that he wasn't being careless when Blackbeard gave him that scar. So yeah, it's definitely implied that Blackbeard was pretty darn strong before he ate the darkness fruit....
Thanks for the update, I went back over the chapter real quick and reacquainted myself with this information .

That beings said, this could have still happened when they were significantly younger. So, it would not be a good indicator of present events or abilities. Though, I will fully admit that Blackbeard, Mihawk, hell almost any current big name character could be equal or above Shanks. My point was more that we are unsure exactly how the power differences work out between the characters besides the seemingly broken Shichibukai = Marines = Yonkou formula (which I really do not want to get into right now ).
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