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Old 2009-06-07, 02:16   Link #1041
bayoab
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Hmm... I don't think anyone has linked to this...

9 gates (Chuuren)
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Old 2009-06-07, 05:26   Link #1042
SuperKnuckles
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What in the world...

I just had a game in which one enemy (CPU) player had a Ron on another for 8000 points, and another CPU player(I'm thinking the dealer) won something INSANE like 18,000 points.

I sort of wish I knew the hands in this game now, even though crazy things like this happens and leaves me shocked. Or Koromo'd.
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Old 2009-06-07, 05:34   Link #1043
Eisdrache
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Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
What in the world...

I just had a game in which one enemy (CPU) player had a Ron on another for 8000 points, and another CPU player(I'm thinking the dealer) won something INSANE like 18,000 points.

I sort of wish I knew the hands in this game now, even though crazy things like this happens and leaves me shocked. Or Koromo'd.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanes...#Yakuman_hands

If you scroll down a bit you will find a list of all viable winning hands (for japanese mahjong).

The scoring part is one of the hardest things to learn in mahjong since they are calculating with an exponential factor >_> But I guess once you understand the system it gets easier over time.
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Old 2009-06-07, 06:00   Link #1044
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secca View Post
Well this is just the basic I understand. To complete your hand, you need 4 kinds of 'triplets' or 'sequence' and 1 'eye'
Triplets ex: 111, 444, NNN
Sequence ex: 123, 567
Eye (2 of pair) ex: 55, 99

Say you complete your hand before other people do, if you win by taking the last piece you need from someone discarded tile, you call 'Ron', and he will have to pay you points based on your hand score (the other 2 players didn't get penalized). But if you win by getting your last piece from the middle, it's called 'Tsumo' and all 3 players will have to pay you points. The concept is quite simple actually.

Remember unlike poker, in mahjong whoever complete their hand first win. It doesn't matter how cool your hands are, if the person next to you finish before you, then he gets all the money. ^^
Is there a condition to calling Ron? In the flash game Jiyuu posted it keeps giving me a "Invalid multiplier" whatnot when I try to make it from a discard of another player. If what I'm reading and what you're saying is true that should be a valid move, I think; at least the damn comp is aprently able to pull it off.

Also, if I understand it right,

basic
  • You start the game with 13 tiles, but you end the game with 14; since the last tile does not require a discard.
  • The most common tiles are Coins (Pin), Bamboo (Sou) and the Kanji (Man) ones; which supposedly go up in value in that order; these are aparently the only ones that can be made both in a row and 3-of-a-kind.
  • You then have a wind tiles that go: West, Sounth, North, East; these you can only make into 3-of-a-kind
  • You also have dragon tiles, that go: Red, White, Green; which also can only be made into 3-of-a-kind

gamplay
  • You can form 3 of a kind, or 3 in a row and that's a pair
  • You also need to form an eye which needs to be 2 of kind so as to end the game (does any tile work?)
  • If you form it from another players tile you need to expose it (ie place it on the right).
    (3 of a kind = Pon? 3 in a row = Chii? 2 of a kind = Toitsu?)
  • If you have tiles on the side, you can call Kan from a picked tile and turn the 3 of a kind into a 4 of a kind, and you then pick another tile? or am I missunderstanding.
  • To win either:
    • 1 toitsu + 4 of either chi/pon/kan (ragardless of which or combination)
    • 7 toitsu?
    • (Something else? just how many are there)

I don't get riichi, you sacrifice 1000 points, declaring you need 1 tile to win (so Tsumo or Ron), you also need to have had the hand with no Pon/Chi; so what's the advantage in calling it?
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Old 2009-06-07, 07:05   Link #1045
Quarkboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
Is there a condition to calling Ron? In the flash game Jiyuu posted it keeps giving me a "Invalid multiplier" whatnot when I try to make it from a discard of another player. If what I'm reading and what you're saying is true that should be a valid move, I think; at least the damn comp is aprently able to pull it off.

Also, if I understand it right,

basic
  • You start the game with 13 tiles, but you end the game with 14; since the last tile does not require a discard.
  • The most common tiles are Coins (Pin), Bamboo (Sou) and the Kanji (Man) ones; which supposedly go up in value in that order; these are aparently the only ones that can be made both in a row and 3-of-a-kind.
  • You then have a wind tiles that go: West, Sounth, North, East; these you can only make into 3-of-a-kind
  • You also have dragon tiles, that go: Red, White, Green; which also can only be made into 3-of-a-kind

gamplay
  • You can form 3 of a kind, or 3 in a row and that's a pair
  • You also need to form an eye which needs to be 2 of kind so as to end the game (does any tile work?)
  • If you form it from another players tile you need to expose it (ie place it on the right).
    (3 of a kind = Pon? 3 in a row = Chii? 2 of a kind = Toitsu?)
  • If you have tiles on the side, you can call Kan from a picked tile and turn the 3 of a kind into a 4 of a kind, and you then pick another tile? or am I missunderstanding.
  • To win either:
    • 1 toitsu + 4 of either chi/pon/kan (ragardless of which or combination)
    • 7 toitsu?
    • (Something else? just how many are there)

I don't get riichi, you sacrifice 1000 points, declaring you need 1 tile to win (so Tsumo or Ron), you also need to have had the hand with no Pon/Chi; so what's the advantage in calling it?
The answer to all of your questions lies in one of the extra rules for riichi mahjong: You have to have at least one yaku to win. There are about 40 different special hands that are worth 1-5 yaku or 1-2 yakuman. Yaku stack so if you have a hand that corresponds to more than one, the yaku add up.

If your hand doesn't have at least one yaku, you can't declare mahjong. Riichi is useful to use for a couple reasons:
1. It counts as 1 yaku, so if you win you get about double the points you would have without calling riichi.
2. It counts as 1 yaku so you can win even if your hand doesn't have any other yaku in it.
3. If you win with a riichi, you turn over the tile underneath the dora indicator which then counts as an "ura-dora" (underneath dora), which gives a nice chance of adding extra fan (multipliers) to your score as well.
4. It's a defensive move, too. If a player has called a riichi, then it's very risky for other players to discard dangerous tiles, and it might prevent another player from going for a win.
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Old 2009-06-07, 07:31   Link #1046
felix
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Ahh I understand it now, well exept for the odd balls like kokushi musō its all relatively simple (somewhat). Thanks.
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Old 2009-06-07, 10:14   Link #1047
Eisdrache
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Kokushi Muso and 7 pairs are the only hands that dont follow the 4 sets + 1 pair rule. 7 pair hand is pretty self-explanatory, while Kokushi Muso is
19 Pins
19 Bamboo
19 Characters
North-West-South-East
White-Green-Red dragon
+ 1 tile that is the same as one of the above (basically a pair)

Very rare but worth tons of points (1-2 yakuman)
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Old 2009-06-07, 10:36   Link #1048
felix
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I tried getting that particular hand and the 7 pair against the ai, just to get a feel for it.
I think trying to get that hand is likely suicide.

Is there a list as to what the girls got in the episodes?
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Old 2009-06-07, 11:04   Link #1049
Secca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
Is there a condition to calling Ron? In the flash game Jiyuu posted it keeps giving me a "Invalid multiplier" whatnot when I try to make it from a discard of another player. If what I'm reading and what you're saying is true that should be a valid move, I think; at least the damn comp is aprently able to pull it off.
It happens to me too. But it only happenned when I had an open hand like Pon or Chi in play. When I think about it, it's probably exactly like Quarkboy mentioned, to win you need at least 1 kind of Yaku. And the easiest yaku to do is Tan'Yao which can be any combination of regular triplets or sequence, but must not contain any 1s or 9s. I probably had those and it doesn't match any other yaku, so they won't let me call a Ron. Things I need to watch out next time. ^^

Btw is there any point to call a Kan? Won't it messed up the numbers of pair to win?
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Old 2009-06-07, 11:08   Link #1050
Proto
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Quote:
I think trying to get that hand is likely suicide.
Normally it's only recommendable to get such hands when you get a very good initial hand that allows you to (for example, for the Kokushi Musou, you get 8 of the required tiles), or when you have nothing to lose because you are so well behind the first place, and it's the last round so you don't have nothing to lose anyway
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Old 2009-06-07, 11:20   Link #1051
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secca View Post
Btw is there any point to call a Kan? Won't it messed up the numbers of pair to win?
No, since you immediately draw another piece, its as if its a bonus tile; I think the advantage to Kan is that you easily match more hands.
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Old 2009-06-07, 11:43   Link #1052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
No, since you immediately draw another piece, its as if its a bonus tile; I think the advantage to Kan is that you easily match more hands.
There are 3 main reasons to call a kong/kan...

1. A kong is worth 4 times the minipoints (fu) of a pung. Minipoints make up the base score that's then doubles by the number of fan, so obviously this makes the hand worth a lot more points.
2. Calling a kong reveals another dora indicator called a "kan dora", which can give your hand more dora and hence, more fan. Note however that this also gives the other players the same advantage, so it's risky to call a kong early in a hand, or if another player is close to winning.
3. Calling a kong can change the turn order. Unlike chow (chi), you can take a discard from any other player to make a kong, and then play begins again from you. So you can actually skip another player's turn and change the order up, or change who it is that will take the last tile. This would be an exceedingly advanced usage of calling a kong, but.... well, keep it in mind.
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Old 2009-06-07, 12:48   Link #1053
Deathkillz
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If you draw all 4 of the same tiles yourself it is sometimes a good idea to wait to see whether there is a need to reveal Kan or not. You wouldn't want to kan only to realise that you needed one tile for a sequence triple...that would hurt
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Old 2009-06-07, 13:15   Link #1054
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By the way, would someone consider creating an actual Mahjong thread in the Games sub-forum for the in-depth how-to-play stuff? Two reasons: first, so that it's easier to find for people who might join the conversation later, and second, so that this thread can stay more focused on the show itself. Of course, I know that Mahjong is a central part of this show, so I fully expect discussion about the game in context. But I think the "how to play" and "what terms mean" stuff may have even wider application that might be useful for others too.
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Old 2009-06-07, 13:31   Link #1055
felix
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I'm afraid it doesn't apply; you will have to ask permission form one of the administrators.
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Old 2009-06-07, 13:35   Link #1056
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Originally Posted by Cats View Post
I'm afraid it doesn't apply; you will have to ask permission form one of the administrators.
...huh? What doesn't apply? I'm just asking someone with knowledge of the subject to start the thread (I could do it, but wouldn't know what to say). Anybody can create a thread in that forum. Why do we need admins for this...?
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Old 2009-06-07, 13:46   Link #1057
bayoab
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I'll do it later today if nobody has done it by then.

Also, gg and wth Gonzo. They flew through 4 chapters, but lost some time because they had to retcon their own change to the series. Chibi koromo looks nowhere as amusing as she does in the manga either.
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Old 2009-06-07, 13:53   Link #1058
felix
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
...huh? What doesn't apply? I'm just asking someone with knowledge of the subject to start the thread (I could do it, but wouldn't know what to say). Anybody can create a thread in that forum. Why do we need admins for this...?
That forums purpose is video/pc games. (I'm not against the idea by any means)
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Old 2009-06-07, 14:00   Link #1059
Deathkillz
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I would hardly believe that games like mahjong would be slammed for going against the rules...never know the mods to be THAT inflexible
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Old 2009-06-07, 14:04   Link #1060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
That forums purpose is video/pc games. (I'm not against the idea by any means)
No, throughout that entire post, it just says "anime-related games". The main example is, of course, video games, but I think Mahjong is okay (and besides, there are ton of computer-based Mahjong games, both packaged and online). If another mod or admin has a problem with it, they could obviously move it to another spot, but I think that's where it's most likely to be found by people. So, it's fine.

Quote:
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I would hardly believe that games like mahjong would be slammed for going against the rules...never know the mods to be THAT inflexible
Agreed.
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