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Old 2009-06-26, 09:11   Link #1301
Quarkboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
That's sort of correct over many hands, but with the two han-chan games in the tournament, there's a decent chance of doing some damage. Moreover, much of the point of Hisa's style isn't necessarily about scoring big hands; it's also about forcing other players to abandon their own big hands. Good players are going to avoid discarding high-risk tiles anyways, so why not make them sweat about discarding seemingly safer ones as well? As long as one adheres to going for hell-waits consistently and plays against good players, there's a decent chance of doing fairly well.
True. Actually I think Fujita even comments on this fact later on (this is really not a spoiler) saying that the current rules seemed more designed to let players with the most freaky luck win instead of the ones that play the smartest.

Question for people steeped in Japanese mahjong: What is the usual format for professional mahjong tournaments in Japan?
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Old 2009-06-26, 09:16   Link #1302
Deathkillz
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In this case I would still say that Hisa has the advantage over Saki or Nodoka because of her experiences and general mood to not let emotions affect her style of play. Unlike the other two who start making mistakes when setbacks hit, Hisa is able to stand above it and continue as normal. In the long run, Hisa is still currently better.
Actually, she kind of reminds me of my own playing style but I am still noob at it
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Old 2009-06-26, 10:25   Link #1303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
True. Actually I think Fujita even comments on this fact later on (this is really not a spoiler) saying that the current rules seemed more designed to let players with the most freaky luck win instead of the ones that play the smartest.

Question for people steeped in Japanese mahjong: What is the usual format for professional mahjong tournaments in Japan?
Adding on to the above, it's because of the addition of the 4 red dora tiles (1 x 5 bamboo, 1 x 5 character, 2 x 5 circles), that luck plays an important part. If you can draw a few of the 4 and complete a game with it, you're sure to win big.

I'm not proficient in actual Japanese mahjong tournament rules but maybe red doras are not really used then?

(And it sounds like you already translated the next episode. Looking forward to it. )
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Old 2009-06-26, 10:26   Link #1304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
True. Actually I think Fujita even comments on this fact later on (this is really not a spoiler) saying that the current rules seemed more designed to let players with the most freaky luck win instead of the ones that play the smartest.

Question for people steeped in Japanese mahjong: What is the usual format for professional mahjong tournaments in Japan?
These don't exist.
一発(First tile win)
裏ドラ(reverse dora)
槓ドラ(kan dora)
赤ドラ(red dora)

And IIRC 食い替え is possible.
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Old 2009-06-26, 10:26   Link #1305
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Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
In this day and time, I have a feeling that heterochromatism is a kind of moe.
( ゚∀゚)アハハ八八ノヽノヽノヽノ \ / \/ \

Heterochromia is awesome <333 Whenever I see a (female, male sucks) character with it she is instantly marked as a favourite
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Old 2009-06-26, 14:16   Link #1306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JINNSK View Post
These don't exist.
一発(First tile win)
裏ドラ(reverse dora)
槓ドラ(kan dora)
赤ドラ(red dora)

And IIRC 食い替え is possible.
I recently bought a pretty awesome new Touhou mahjong doujin game, and each player has a "special power" and the tables have freaky rules.

The table in Marisa's house has all those dora, then an additional red tile for EVERY OTHER TILE. I.e. one of the four tiles of every non honor is red.

Oh, and marisa's special magic power can turn any one tile in her hand red.

I was getting sanbaiman's up the wazoo . I ended up beating the other compater players with like 110,000 (standard 30K start).
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Old 2009-06-26, 23:11   Link #1307
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Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
I recently bought a pretty awesome new Touhou mahjong doujin game, and each player has a "special power" and the tables have freaky rules.

The table in Marisa's house has all those dora, then an additional red tile for EVERY OTHER TILE. I.e. one of the four tiles of every non honor is red.

Oh, and marisa's special magic power can turn any one tile in her hand red.

I was getting sanbaiman's up the wazoo . I ended up beating the other compater players with like 110,000 (standard 30K start).
Is that Touhou Unreal Mahjong by D.N.A. software?

If yes, I'm glad to see that someone play it ^^

I have unlocked every playable character but since I don't understand Japanese language, I don't understand some of their special powers, too bad. (Powers that show their effect on the table like Reimu,Marisa,Cirno, Lumia and Mystia abilities are easy to understand, but for some character powers that don't show their effects on the table directly, I don't underdtand them at all).
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Old 2009-06-27, 05:42   Link #1308
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Hisa's strategy actually works better against better players precisely because she screws around with improbable waits. Good players know to make low-risk discards, but lesser players are more likely to just focus on their own hands without worrying about their opponents as much, so they'll be less affected by someone else's play style.
Isn't Hisa playing to force the better players to overthink? Which brings them down to the level of the lesser players, hand-wise like you mention later (quote below). Or risk having Hisa win off them.

Quote:
That's sort of correct over many hands, but with the two han-chan games in the tournament, there's a decent chance of doing some damage. Moreover, much of the point of Hisa's style isn't necessarily about scoring big hands; it's also about forcing other players to abandon their own big hands. Good players are going to avoid discarding high-risk tiles anyways, so why not make them sweat about discarding seemingly safer ones as well? As long as one adheres to going for hell-waits consistently and plays against good players, there's a decent chance of doing fairly well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
I don't know if they would demolish Hisa given that she's a decently good defensive player to begin with - I don't think that she ended up playing into anyone's hand. Moreover, going for hell- and 0-chance waits is going to be enough to throw off just about anyone's game, even if only a little.
Ok, maybe not demolish, but definitely win against her. I assume that as long as Saki and Nodoka don't freak out like the match against Fujita, they should be able to use their 'powers' and bend the tiles to their advantage. Heck, if Hisa had "luck powerful enough to create miracles," she'd be a monster with her play style. But she doesn't, which should mean that if Saki doesn't discard the tile she needs for her hell wait (assuming that Saki's holding it), Saki should be able to get the tile for their own wait first since she does have that kind of luck. Nodoka, if she keeps her wits about her, should be able to counter Hisa (rewatching the match with Fujita, if Nodoka wasn't focusing on Saki and paying attention to Fujita (or the tiles) instead, she probably wouldn't have discarded the winning tile).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
In this case I would still say that Hisa has the advantage over Saki or Nodoka because of her experiences and general mood to not let emotions affect her style of play. Unlike the other two who start making mistakes when setbacks hit, Hisa is able to stand above it and continue as normal. In the long run, Hisa is still currently better.
Actually, she kind of reminds me of my own playing style but I am still noob at it
This is what the training camp hopefully did. I wonder if Hisa played seriously against everyone during the camp.
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Old 2009-06-27, 13:28   Link #1309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willen View Post
Isn't Hisa playing to force the better players to overthink? Which brings them down to the level of the lesser players, hand-wise like you mention later (quote below). Or risk having Hisa win off them.
Not really. The key to Hisa's success is to pull off a couple of improbable wins off of semi-safe discards and force her opponents to destroy their own hands to look for safe disards subsequently. A lesser player would just concentrate on their own hand and try to optimize their chances of winning. Based on percentages, such a player would actually end up winning more often than Hisa's hell-waits, and it would not be to her advantage to do so at all. If she had been up with Kaoru, her play-style would fared more poorly than she managed to pull off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willen View Post
Ok, maybe not demolish, but definitely win against her. I assume that as long as Saki and Nodoka don't freak out like the match against Fujita, they should be able to use their 'powers' and bend the tiles to their advantage.
There's no definite about it, especially if the match was just a couple of han-chans. Nodoka plays a very strong probability-based game, and it's precisely the kind of play style that Hisa would excel against. It's not so much that Hisa needs her opponents to freak out, but that she forces her opponents to worry about what her hand is. She also needs to declare riichi before her opponents do so for maximum effect. How well they would fare against her is going to depend largely on luck, but it's fairly clear that, of the characters in the finals so far, she and Mihoko have been the strongest (even if Kaoru scored the most points ), especially in terms of emotional strength and gutsiness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willen View Post
Heck, if Hisa had "luck powerful enough to create miracles," she'd be a monster with her play style. But she doesn't, which should mean that if Saki doesn't discard the tile she needs for her hell wait (assuming that Saki's holding it), Saki should be able to get the tile for their own wait first since she does have that kind of luck. Nodoka, if she keeps her wits about her, should be able to counter Hisa (rewatching the match with Fujita, if Nodoka wasn't focusing on Saki and paying attention to Fujita (or the tiles) instead, she probably wouldn't have discarded the winning tile).
That's sort of the point of the hell-wait. Most players don't stick with them because of their low probability of showing up. However, if a player is willing to stick with one, then it becomes impossible to figure out what they're waiting for, and the number of safe tiles decreases drastically. This is precisely how people play into Hisa's hand. Moreover, because she's willing to go for improbable waits, she's also more likely to declare riichi before anyone else does. Over the long run, it's probably not that good an idea, but in just a few hands, it can prove very effective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willen View Post
This is what the training camp hopefully did. I wonder if Hisa played seriously against everyone during the camp.
The training camp was meant to give them a bit more of mental endurance. Hisa claimed that she usually plays logically and Yuuki and Kyoutarou didn't even know that she played for hell-waits, so she probably doesn't do so very often.
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Old 2009-06-27, 14:20   Link #1310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
( ゚∀゚)アハハ八八ノヽノヽノヽノ \ / \/ \

Heterochromia is awesome <333 Whenever I see a (female, male sucks) character with it she is instantly marked as a favourite
AhahahahahaHAHAHAHAHA....I've never quite gotten that fetish and wondered if there was anybody around that parts that was into it. Now I know. It's kind of weird to look at but I guess it could be seen as exotic too.
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Old 2009-06-28, 02:12   Link #1311
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I knew someone with brown and blue eyes, it's actually kind of pretty. Guess it becomes a fetish for some because it's so unique...... or they wished that they were? O_o
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Old 2009-06-28, 12:33   Link #1312
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The next episode aired today with the begin of Nodoka's round.

Last edited by M.Marangio; 2009-06-28 at 22:22. Reason: 2chan link removed
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Old 2009-06-28, 12:45   Link #1313
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I-It's like I'm watching Nanoha!... Or something like that.

Spoiler for Ep 13:

Momo!
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Old 2009-06-28, 14:51   Link #1314
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Spoiler for ep13:
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Old 2009-06-28, 15:11   Link #1315
Quarkboy
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FYI the line from the preview for ep 14 that makes almost no sense is an extremely obtuse reference:

"Your back is transparent" = "anta, senaka ga suketeru ze"

is a reference to the catch phrase from a mahjong manga from the 1980s "naki no ryuu" (crying dragon) which is "anta, senaka ga susuketeru ze" = "your back is dirty" (which seems to have its own debate as to what it means).

susukeru vs. sukeru pun + reference to mahjong manga from the 80s. A real gut buster there, guys.

Actually all the previews have some obtuse reference to something mahjong related in them that are impossible to translate without some wikipedia referencing note.
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Old 2009-06-28, 15:49   Link #1316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Not really. The key to Hisa's success is to pull off a couple of improbable wins off of semi-safe discards and force her opponents to destroy their own hands to look for safe disards subsequently. A lesser player would just concentrate on their own hand and try to optimize their chances of winning. Based on percentages, such a player would actually end up winning more often than Hisa's hell-waits, and it would not be to her advantage to do so at all. If she had been up with Kaoru, her play-style would fared more poorly than she managed to pull off.


There's no definite about it, especially if the match was just a couple of han-chans. Nodoka plays a very strong probability-based game, and it's precisely the kind of play style that Hisa would excel against. It's not so much that Hisa needs her opponents to freak out, but that she forces her opponents to worry about what her hand is. She also needs to declare riichi before her opponents do so for maximum effect. How well they would fare against her is going to depend largely on luck, but it's fairly clear that, of the characters in the finals so far, she and Mihoko have been the strongest (even if Kaoru scored the most points ), especially in terms of emotional strength and gutsiness.


That's sort of the point of the hell-wait. Most players don't stick with them because of their low probability of showing up. However, if a player is willing to stick with one, then it becomes impossible to figure out what they're waiting for, and the number of safe tiles decreases drastically. This is precisely how people play into Hisa's hand. Moreover, because she's willing to go for improbable waits, she's also more likely to declare riichi before anyone else does. Over the long run, it's probably not that good an idea, but in just a few hands, it can prove very effective.


The training camp was meant to give them a bit more of mental endurance. Hisa claimed that she usually plays logically and Yuuki and Kyoutarou didn't even know that she played for hell-waits, so she probably doesn't do so very often.
Even in tournament, she probably only does it when she feels like it, rather than at every hand. Often enough to make her adversaries worry she's doing it, not enough to crash and burn.
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Old 2009-06-28, 16:46   Link #1317
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"I'm approaching my ultimate state"?
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Old 2009-06-28, 16:53   Link #1318
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Spoiler:
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Old 2009-06-28, 17:07   Link #1319
tjalorak
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Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
True. Actually I think Fujita even comments on this fact later on (this is really not a spoiler) saying that the current rules seemed more designed to let players with the most freaky luck win instead of the ones that play the smartest.

Question for people steeped in Japanese mahjong: What is the usual format for professional mahjong tournaments in Japan?
Well, she also mentions that the rules changed this year as if someone were intentionally trying to find those who are blessed by the tiles. That sort of lends a rather ominous feel to the rule change. I wonder if this becomes a plot point later on after the tournament.
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Old 2009-06-28, 18:17   Link #1320
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Every time I see those wings pop out of the imaginary world come to life, it makes me laugh. What is with the obsession of doing that and why is it always Nodoka? Besides that, another enjoyable episode 13 was.
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