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Old 2009-08-06, 20:02   Link #981
Zwei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
And so what? Yes, there are occasional mistakes, but overall it's a good conversion and still worth the admission price, particularly at the discounted 25$ it's offered nowadays. If you're one of the "I ain't pay anything" crowd, then for the love of god be like that, but STFU about those people who actually shell out bucks to support making the games available for non-japanese speakers. Pirate quietly instead of annoying the paying people. Thank you very much.
Actually you were the one who brought the topic up, I just said I finished downloading the game....and you started all the gayness roffles. You sir FAIL.
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Old 2009-08-06, 21:20   Link #982
DragoZERO
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Now now.. I think most people will back Mentar on this one here. Piracy is illegal for a reason. And although a lot of anime, movies, manga, video games, etc. are translated, no matter what the country of origin and destination are, it won't be as good as the original. And unfortunately most of the time it is a poor attempt to translate, convert and sell the product (I just bought the Naruto manga box set from Viz and found myself dissapointed in some areas, particurly the chose of translation, such as 'doppelganger' instead of 'clone' in Naruto's signature technique among other things) in another country but there could be reasons for that, such has budget since so few people buy the product once its available. That is the point Mentar was making. You can't complain about something when all you do is hurt it. Its like saying the food your eating sucks after putting dirt on top of it.
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Old 2009-08-06, 22:58   Link #983
Yu Ominae
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Episode 18 is so sad.

Especially since Claudia reveals she was in Inferno...

Spoiler for Reason:


I mourn her even more.
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Old 2009-08-07, 10:31   Link #984
klare
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still waiting to watch eps 17

Last edited by klare; 2009-08-07 at 10:49.
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Old 2009-08-07, 12:59   Link #985
Kaoru Chujo
Minase Inori
 
 
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Episode 19 was an entertaining recap, for me, but with some important new stuff. Seeing some of those scenes again gave me new feeling for them.
Spoiler for ep19:
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Old 2009-08-07, 17:34   Link #986
orion
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Actually for me..

Spoiler for ep. 19:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
*0.7%(*1.3%) 08/06 26:15-26:45 TX* Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~
Bee Train's prob crying with these numbers imo. Oh well, more Elen next week. Yippee!
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Old 2009-08-07, 18:25   Link #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
And so what? Yes, there are occasional mistakes, but overall it's a good conversion and still worth the admission price, particularly at the discounted 25$ it's offered nowadays. If you're one of the "I ain't pay anything" crowd, then for the love of god be like that, but STFU about those people who actually shell out bucks to support making the games available for non-japanese speakers. Pirate quietly instead of annoying the paying people. Thank you very much.
visual novels will never be a viable market in the us, you should stop encouraging the poor businessmen fools that try it, it'll only lead to more bankruptcies and personal tragedies

shame on you
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
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Old 2009-08-07, 19:47   Link #988
Kaoru Chujo
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@orion: I looked up the DVD sales figures, hoping that Beetrain might be able to smile a bit. Nope:
*84 -- *2,137 **2,137 **1 Phantom~Requiem for the Phantom~ Mission-1【初回生産限定版~アイン篇】

How to read: #84 on the overall top 100 DVDs for this week; wasn't in the charts last week; with 2137 sold this week; for a total of 2137; this is its first week.
Spoiler for full list of anime DVD sales, to save space (in Japanese):
That doesn't reduce my admiration for the show, just for the Japanese buying public. I wonder why it isn't more popular.
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Old 2009-08-07, 20:17   Link #989
orion
Waiting for more taiyuki!
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
@orion: I looked up the DVD sales figures, hoping that Beetrain might be able to smile a bit. Nope:
*84 -- *2,137 **2,137 **1 Phantom~Requiem for the Phantom~ Mission-1【初回生産限定版~アイン篇】

How to read: #84 on the overall top 100 DVDs for this week; wasn't in the charts last week; with 2137 sold this week; for a total of 2137; this is its first week.
Spoiler for full list of anime DVD sales, to save space (in Japanese):
That doesn't reduce my admiration for the show, just for the Japanese buying public. I wonder why it isn't more popular.

It's too dark, not shonen, not moe, not Gundam or EVA and it didn't contain Mio.

Bee Train prob knew this would happen from the start.

But at least it's not as bad as Skip Beat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eggplant View Post
Skip Beat! ***694 (6+) (Hal Film Maker)
2009/02/04 **,*** Vol. 1 (Two episodes up to Vol. 2)
2009/03/04 **,*** Vol. 2
2009/04/03 **,*** Vol. 3 (Three episodes up to Vol. 9)
2009/05/07 **,*** Vol. 4
2009/06/03 ***694 Vol. 5
2009/07/01 **,*** Vol. 6
Or....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katapan View Post
*0.3%(*0.8%) 05/21 26:15-26:45 TX* Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~
How's that for a low? That was episode 8 by the way. (Ein gets setup for the fall and shot in the stomach only to have Reiji remove the bullet.) I guess it was too violent.
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Last edited by orion; 2009-08-07 at 20:38.
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Old 2009-08-08, 06:17   Link #990
-Sho-
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What anime is in the first place ?
i guess

7 - Gundam 00

18 - FF 7

20 - Code Geass R2 ^^
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Old 2009-08-08, 06:47   Link #991
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Sho- View Post
What anime is in the first place ?
i guess

7 - Gundam 00

18 - FF 7

20 - Code Geass R2 ^^

This list is here for 1st 1/2 of 2009. For DVDs it's RE: Degeneration and for BDs it's EVA 1.11.
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Old 2009-08-08, 06:50   Link #992
-Sho-
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Ah wow Resident Evil . Yeah , quite good , i saw it a while ago .
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Old 2009-08-08, 13:52   Link #993
TJR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
That doesn't reduce my admiration for the show, just for the Japanese buying public. I wonder why it isn't more popular.
Can't speak for the Japanese buying public, but I think the show is another entry in a line of soulless, literal adaptations that plague the industry. Phantom isn't without merit -> the Nitro+ story is fabulous, and its heart and soul are retained. However, the adaptation is mechanical with unnatural, overly deliberate timing and poorly choreographed action scenes.

Hayate the Combat Butler Second Season was written and edited by the same people (except for the Nitro+ guy, each individual is alternating between Phantom and Hayate), and it shares some of the same problems. It's a thorough presentation of the original story, but there's almost a sense of mathematical precision, making it hard for the humor to shine through.

For both shows, it feels as if the staff are bored out of their minds.

On the Dengeki satisfaction polls, Hayate failed to rank for spring, despite being the second most anticipated series of that season. Phantom didn't rank either, so the shows probably appeal best to newcomers (maybe not so many for Phantom?) or people who can stomach a wonky but literal recreation.
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Old 2009-08-08, 16:38   Link #994
orion
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The other thing is how popular is the game now in Japan. It's on its 10th anniversay, right? If it's not that popular, then people aren't going to buy the DVDs.

Prob for a violent title based on a 10 yr old game it's doing pretty good. It just needs to not dip lower than 1000 by the end imo. They sold some character goods for the program.

I actually liked the action scenes. It's one of the reasons I mourn no R2 BD for this title. (Easier for R1 to get BD with better audio if R2 releases it first.) Just seeing those countersnipe bullets fly and the pan shot to where Elen was sniping from, it was screaming BD release to me even on my computer monitor.
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Old 2009-08-08, 21:25   Link #995
Manic
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i dunno this is one of the better series i have seen in 2 years. Phantom, Hayate, and Pandora hearts are the best 3 shows running right now. All those moe shows make me sick i guess i am not into their lil craze they have for it over there. Oh well i know atleast in the US their under appreciated shows like phantom, kenichi, ect do better over here than their moe shows
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Old 2009-08-08, 22:12   Link #996
Kaoru Chujo
Minase Inori
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJR View Post
Can't speak for the Japanese buying public, but I think the show is another entry in a line of soulless, literal adaptations that plague the industry. Phantom isn't without merit -> the Nitro+ story is fabulous, and its heart and soul are retained. However, the adaptation is mechanical with unnatural, overly deliberate timing and poorly choreographed action scenes.

Hayate the Combat Butler Second Season was written and edited by the same people...On the Dengeki satisfaction polls, Hayate failed to rank for spring, despite being the second most anticipated series of that season. Phantom didn't rank either, so the shows probably appeal best to newcomers (maybe not so many for Phantom?) or people who can stomach a wonky but literal recreation.
Fascinating post. Thanks. I am definitely a newcomer, since I've never liked this genre much before. I certainly don't feel it as "soulless," except where that is what the feeling is supposed to be.

I have no great love of or familiarity with action sequences, so my enjoyment of them here may reflect low standards, not sure. I suspect that having played the game or read the manga before is a detriment to enjoying the show, as usual.

What I feel in this show is a lot of soul in the soullessness, at least for the main characters. My intuition is that what you refer to as "unnatural, overly deliberate timing" is what I see as elegant stylishness that lifts this show above others I've seen.

If it's just the adaptation that you're calling mechanical, that makes me wonder how the writers can win: if they stick to the original, they're mechanical; if they change it, they are castigated for every change. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but maybe you want more obvious emotion? But less emotion on the surface and more real humanity beneath is one of the things I like about this show. And I got a great hit of emotion from the soulless Elen a couple of times, thanks to Takagaki Ayahi.

I'm not a fan of Hayate, so I can't comment except to say that it is a very different thing from this, not just in genre but in the fact that that show has already gone on far too long, in my opinion. Maybe some fans just discovered they had had enough. But i did watch the first couple of eps of this season, and found them rather mechanical, too.

To me, one of the most "mechanical" shows I've seen this year is K-On, which is also the most popular show of the year. Not that I didn't enjoy it, just that I hate how much more popular it is than other moe comedies I enjoy and admire more.

Can you tell me where to find staff info that shows the same editors doing both this and Hayate2? Certainly different studios and editing studios, but I'm not doubting what you say, just want to know how to find such info. I found the Hayate info on an atwiki, but can't find it for Phantom.

Kuroda Yousuke adapted this and co-adapts that. But he also did Gundam00 and both Honey & Clover shows. I thought H&C, especially the first series, was a very successful adaptation, and it was incredibly faithful to the manga, as you say this is to the game. I feel some of the subtlety and human sensitivity of that here, to be honest.

Actually, the first serious complaint I've had about this show is how...
Spoiler for ep18:
And Manic, I am living proof that one can like both this show and moe shows like Kannagi or Kanamemo, too, lol.
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Hashihime blog | Twitter @nakanokimi | summer 2014 previews | summer 2014 schedule |
characters/seiyuus: | Mahouka Koukou | Glasslip | Tokyo Ghoul | Sailor Moon Crystal | Locodol | Ao Haru Ride | Hanayamata | Aldnoah.Zero | Nozaki-kun | Magimoji Rurumo | Zankyou no Terror | Tokyo ESP | Rokujouma no Shinryakusha | Love Stage!! | Jinsei | Rail Wars | Blade Dance | Himegoto

Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2009-08-08 at 22:28.
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Old 2009-08-08, 22:40   Link #997
Manic
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there are some good ones, but most are not what i would consider to be good.

I like the way the are doing this, I really hate when the anime does its own original story like what they did to Nabari and kurokami. Most of that turns out to be complete shit. The only original anime i ever liked was macross, geass, and e7
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Old 2009-08-09, 06:38   Link #998
Mentar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJR View Post
Can't speak for the Japanese buying public, but I think the show is another entry in a line of soulless, literal adaptations that plague the industry. Phantom isn't without merit -> the Nitro+ story is fabulous, and its heart and soul are retained. However, the adaptation is mechanical with unnatural, overly deliberate timing and poorly choreographed action scenes.

Hayate the Combat Butler Second Season was written and edited by the same people (except for the Nitro+ guy, each individual is alternating between Phantom and Hayate), and it shares some of the same problems. It's a thorough presentation of the original story, but there's almost a sense of mathematical precision, making it hard for the humor to shine through.

For both shows, it feels as if the staff are bored out of their minds.
It's an interesting opinion, however I think that Kaoru Chujo put it best: It's a damned-if-they-do-damned-if-they-dont situation: If they stay true to the original source, the criticism is that it's a "mathematical-mechanical conversion without soul". If they don't, they're dissed for butchering the source. And as usual, the whiner voices are much louder.

In my opinion, Hayate S2 and Phantom are excellent conversions. Now what do you expect? How can particularly a comedy show manage to make jokes that the viewership already knows from the manga as funny in the anime? It's impossible. This is a fundamental problem of CONVERSIONS, and it can't be helped.

Brutally put, in my opinion the taste of the japanese fanbase is horrible and 90% incompatible with my own. They have started with a very strange and disconcerting worship of moe productions of well-liked animation studios (the excesses about the amazingly mediocre K-On will linger in my mind for a long time). And few animation studios take the risk of new, original shows anymore, leading to a flood of conversions. And here, no matter how excellent they are (Phantom or Hayate), there will always be complaints. Another example: FMA Brotherhood - wonderful conversion, and quickly dwindling viewership.

Sad, in a way.
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Old 2009-08-09, 11:33   Link #999
orion
Waiting for more taiyuki!
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Actually, the first serious complaint I've had about this show is how...
Spoiler for ep18:
And Manic, I am living proof that one can like both this show and moe shows like Kannagi or Kanamemo, too, lol.
Reiji's preservation instinct got the best of the situation and it is following the game...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Brutally put, in my opinion the taste of the japanese fanbase is horrible and 90% incompatible with my own. They have started with a very strange and disconcerting worship of moe productions of well-liked animation studios (the excesses about the amazingly mediocre K-On will linger in my mind for a long time). And few animation studios take the risk of new, original shows anymore, leading to a flood of conversions. And here, no matter how excellent they are (Phantom or Hayate), there will always be complaints. Another example: FMA Brotherhood - wonderful conversion, and quickly dwindling viewership.

Sad, in a way.
Alas, I too am noticing a compatibility issue between my tastes and the Japanese fanbase. My viewing has been down. Only interested in Shin Mazinger Z, TM8, Umineko, Canaan, KnK and this one.

Cheer up, it rebounded slightly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katapan View Post
*1.3%(*2.0%) 07/30 26:15-26:45 TX* Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~
Just put Elen in a seifuku and keep her in it for the rest of the series.

Edit:
Wow, I was only joking but DVD 1 has a nude Ein as the reversible cover. Jeez, you gotta see this CM. A new low perhaps.. The puppets are cute and I like the anniversary book.
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Old 2009-08-09, 14:42   Link #1000
coroloro
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Well, I don't think the following requirse a "spoiler" tag because, quite honestly, it is based only upon my own conjecture- I have no backing for it beyond what I've figured out and 'predicted' (based on my present understanding of how anime plots tend to go, and based on how this anime has gone). So, it's not a spoiler... unless it happens, which I don't know, since it hasn't happened yet. :P Well, I suppose I'll put it in spoiler tags just because it is based on the latest episode- so if you haven't seen up to the most recent one, then it's a spoiler.

Here's my very strong feeling about how the present situation will turn out.

1) Either Cal already worked for Scythe to begin with, and before meeting Reiji was trained by him (most likely, I think), OR (less likely, but possible) Scythe got ahold of her and is going to train her after said explosion that supposedly "killed" her.

2) Cal will end up tracking down Reiji and, I think, be after "Eien/Helen"- Reiji will be forced to choose... Cal, or Helen. Somehow, despite all the hints we've seen, Reiji will actually be surprised at the fact Cal is still alive. Hah.

Also, I tend to think backing for the fact that Cal might already be a Scythe-slave is the fact that she was tinkering with stuff early on, and seemed to be hiding it from Reiji- very possibly made the actual bomb that "blew her up". But scenario B is still possible, that these are just skills she has that will be used after she is 'converted'. Who knows... either way, it's clear Cal is coming back and it seems very, very reasonable that she is connected to Scythe.

-Coro
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