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Old 2009-08-22, 16:32   Link #1221
miroku2192
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It is what might be implied, but for the sake of fansubbing, i think it should be left for the viewers to decide for themselves.
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Old 2009-08-22, 16:34   Link #1222
Spinner187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
Because no American would say "Chinese" in that situation. The ethnic slur is the most logical conclusion.

And you can be racist towards one ethnic group and not another. Know this from personal experience.

Drei may have a reason.
You right no american would say "Chinese", they would say "ch**k" instead( for the purpose of being racial).

But I guess the script writers are not familiar with American racial slurs.

But like I said before, they didn't produce this anime for americans.
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Old 2009-08-22, 16:36   Link #1223
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miroku2192 View Post
It is what might be implied, but for the sake of fansubbing, i think it should be left for the viewers to decide for themselves.
That is not the point of translation. You do have to regionalize it to get the point across sometimes. No American would use "Chinese" in that way in that context.

Ergo, she has issues like SM said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinner187 View Post
You right no american would say "Chinese", they would say "ch**k" instead( for the purpose of being racial).

But I guess the script writers are not familiar with American racial slurs.

But like I said before, they didn't produce this anime for americans.
A title that is based primarily in the US with a cast that was mostly Americans for the first 2/3. The title is a shoe in for the R1 market. Of course, they made this with the Western audience in mind. They will prob make more off us than their own country imo.
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Old 2009-08-22, 16:38   Link #1224
Key Board
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She's not a true Phantom
She doesn't wear a mask in the eyecatches

It's symbolic
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Old 2009-08-22, 16:41   Link #1225
miroku2192
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Yeah but why would she say chink? She doesn't seem like the one to be racist :\. I mean, there should be no reason for her to be racist against chinese people...at least i don't think so. If anything, she shoudl be hating the japanese lawl

personally i woudl've loved it if they wrote chinaman instead of chink...would've made me rofl all day
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Old 2009-08-22, 16:43   Link #1226
orion
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Originally Posted by miroku2192 View Post
Yeah but why would she say chink? She doesn't seem like the one to be racist :\. I mean, there should be no reason for her to be racist against chinese people...at least i don't think so. If anything, she shoudl be hating the japanese lawl

personally i woudl've loved it if they wrote chinaman instead of chink...would've made me rofl all day
The Japanese are paying her via Inferno. You don't hate the ones who are feeding you.

Hopefully, a reason will be given if you haven't gotten any clues from previous episodes.
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Old 2009-08-22, 16:52   Link #1227
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People of organized crime tend to refer to other races with deragotory terms. And they should.
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Old 2009-08-22, 16:52   Link #1228
miroku2192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
The Japanese are paying her via Inferno. You don't hate the ones who are feeding you.

Hopefully, a reason will be given if you haven't gotten any clues from previous episodes.
No i mean, it was the japanese that got that "sister' of hers killed right? So that's why i said if anything, she'd hate the japanese.

And just cuz you get paid for doing work, doesn't mean you have to like your employer.
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Old 2009-08-22, 16:55   Link #1229
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What's to say she doesn't hate the Japanese?

You are under the impression that she is being exclusively angry at Chinese people. I don't think that is true.

I have the impression that she hates everyone. She works with Inferno, but she holds no respect for them either. Look how she team killed one of her own during the mission. Look at how she disrespectfully tosses her dirty towel on Scythe.
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Old 2009-08-22, 16:56   Link #1230
miroku2192
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^no it was just an example...and orion...i just had some taiyuki *yummmm*
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Old 2009-08-22, 17:07   Link #1231
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
What's to say she doesn't hate the Japanese?

You are under the impression that she is being exclusively angry at Chinese people. I don't think that is true.

I have the impression that she hates everyone. She works with Inferno, but she holds no respect for them either. Look how she team killed one of her own during the mission. Look at how she disrespectfully tosses her dirty towel on Scythe.
They prob have no love for her either especially after she killed one of her own. Ein didn't do that unless it was under orders. Reiji didn't do it at all.

Liz: Mr McGuire, I'm sorry to report we lost one of our men due to friendly fire.
McGuire: She did it again?
Liz: Yes.
Liz: And here's the bill for the motorcycle damage as well as the guns that she left at the scene that therefore have to be replaced.
McGure: *sigh* How long do we have to put up with this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by miroku2192 View Post
^no it was just an example...and orion...i just had some taiyuki *yummmm*
Lucky you. I reside in an area where it's impossible to get outside of mail. Enjoy an extra servng for me.
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Old 2009-08-22, 17:08   Link #1232
Nayrael
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Quote:
She's not a true Phantom
She doesn't wear a mask in the eyecatches

It's symbolic
She doesn't wear a mask since she isn't someone who merges with civilians but someone who comes from shadows and kills you (as you can see from ep21, thats exactly what she does). Thats the actual reason why her face was shadowed rather then masked.
Word Phantom can be used by both terms: hidden in community or hidden in shadows.

Quote:
No American would use "Chinese" in that way in that context.
Maybe she said Chinese because they refered to the enemy as the Chinese mafia, rather then for racistic reasons.
Or maybe she is actually respectful towards other races so she uses the "official" terms.

Quote:
No i mean, it was the japanese that got that "sister' of hers killed right? So that's why i said if anything, she'd hate the japanese.
How do you know that Ellen is a Japanesse? Also, it looks like Judy was killed because of a stray bullet, not by Ellen.
Also, who says that she even knows that Ellen fought there?
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Old 2009-08-22, 17:15   Link #1233
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayrael View Post
Maybe she said Chinese because they refered to the enemy as the Chinese mafia, rather then for racistic reasons.
Or maybe she is actually respectful towards other races so she uses the "official" terms.
Uh, not done here.

Also, not done in Chocolate which pitted Japanese against Thai mafia.
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Old 2009-08-22, 17:16   Link #1234
Zwei
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There is a hint in Episode 4 about Elen's hometown and where she comes from, but I won't say anymore T_T
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Old 2009-08-22, 17:16   Link #1235
Mentar
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Originally Posted by Spinner187 View Post
But she actual saying "Chinese" in english. I have no clue how they translate that into "ch**k".
Due to the sneering pronunciation it was decided to localize. It was clearly intended to be a slur.
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Old 2009-08-22, 17:31   Link #1236
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayrael View Post
She doesn't wear a mask since she isn't someone who merges with civilians but someone who comes from shadows and kills you (as you can see from ep21, thats exactly what she does). Thats the actual reason why her face was shadowed rather then masked.
Word Phantom can be used by both terms: hidden in community or hidden in shadows.
I think you fail at Beetrain symbolism. The mask has nothing to do with "community" (I wonder where the hell did you get that from), it symbolises the Phantom. The symbolism was obviously taken from The Phantom of the Opera, who used a mask.

So yeah, the lack of the mask ties with the comment about her not being a full-fledged Phantom.
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Old 2009-08-22, 17:39   Link #1237
orion
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That mask is very prominent in the ED along with the tears that both shed. (Prob showing light and dark sides of Ein again as it's her color that's on 1 of the masks.) All 3 characters in the ED wear one.
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Old 2009-08-22, 17:40   Link #1238
Nayrael
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Quote:
I think you fail at Beetrain symbolism.
Symbols often have more then one meaning and more then one analysis can be made from the same symbol.

Quote:
The symbolism was obviously taken from The Phantom of the Opera, who used a mask.
Actually, masks are often associated with Phantoms in general. You don't need to take it from another anime at all.

Quote:
The mask has nothing to do with "community" (I wonder where the hell did you get that from), it symbolises the Phantom.
Civilian clothes and a mask, the civilian clothes representing the person how he loks in open and the mask representing that this is not a true face. It is also what Ein and Zwei do: hide in community. The masks do symbolise the Phantom, I never denied that.

Drei does not have a mask nor normal clothes. When you see her, you know that she is not a civilian. The VN also mentions that she radiates the violent aura so people immediately know that she is dangerous.
However, it is also shown that she often hides in shadows, something with what word Phantom is also often associated.
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Old 2009-08-22, 17:42   Link #1239
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
That mask is very prominent in the ED along with the tears that both shed. (Prob showing light and dark sides of Ein as it's her color that's on 1 of the masks.) All 3 characters in the ED wear one.
But that doesn't change tha fact that she doesn't wear one in the eyecatches, and the symbolism is there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayrael View Post
Actually, masks are often associated with Phantoms in general. You don't need to take it from another anime at all.
"another anime"?? You really don't know what The Phantom of the Opera is? Just so you know, the masks are often associated with Phantoms in general because of The Phantom of the Opera.
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Old 2009-08-22, 17:44   Link #1240
Zwei
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The reason she doesn't wear the mask is because she just doesn't feel like it just like Reiji after his showdown with Sycthe, he was the new Phantom 6 months later but he never wore a mask, he wore glasses for his disguise in episode 14 kinda. As I said before Cal isn't under Sycthe control yet...like Ein was.
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