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Old 2009-08-30, 12:58   Link #1521
Zwei
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While I do agree about Cal being killed off is not right, I disagree about putting the blame on Reiji about her circumstances, her life would have been screwed up either way.
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Old 2009-08-30, 13:07   Link #1522
Vampire
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What's bugging me is that why didn't Reiji put any thought into finding Cal afterward? Sure, you're being chased by a deadly crime syndicate and there's no time to waste but a few minutes wouldn't kill you right? If my memory isn't that bad, he just stood there for a few seconds mourning after killing Cal's supposedly assailants and just left while the house was burning. Wouldn't asking around or calling 911 would be anyone's response? Or is he too much of a wuss to see her corpse?
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Old 2009-08-30, 13:25   Link #1523
GDB
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Originally Posted by Vampire View Post
What's bugging me is that why didn't Reiji put any thought into finding Cal afterward? Sure, you're being chased by a deadly crime syndicate and there's no time to waste but a few minutes wouldn't kill you right? If my memory isn't that bad, he just stood there for a few seconds mourning after killing Cal's supposedly assailants and just left while the house was burning. Wouldn't asking around or calling 911 would be anyone's response? Or is he too much of a wuss to see her corpse?
He just gunned down three people and then shot down their escaping vehicle and driver. You expect him to sit around and ask people nearby random questions? Or call the authorities, again right after killing four people? No, you get the hell out of Dodge.

Besides, it's not like the apartment caught on fire or something. It was blown up. It wasn't a bomb shelter, so if someone were inside at the time they'd definitely be dead. Just look at how much damage the bomb did to the building itself.
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Old 2009-08-30, 13:28   Link #1524
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
He just gunned down three people and then shot down their escaping vehicle and driver. You expect him to sit around and ask people nearby random questions? Or call the authorities, again right after killing four people? No, you get the hell out of Dodge.

Besides, it's not like the apartment caught on fire or something. It was blown up. It wasn't a bomb shelter, so if someone were inside at the time they'd definitely be dead. Just look at how much damage the bomb did to the building itself.
Alright, you got a point. But still, ever thought of the chances if she wasn't in the room? And if I am correct, the video store should be around the corner right? And were there even any pedestrians?
Spending at least 5 minutes around there just in case if I run to safety and the loli is actually alive and misunderstood.
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Old 2009-08-30, 13:30   Link #1525
GDB
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The video store was far enough away that, with the apartment exploding as Cal left the store, by the time she ran back the fire department had already arrived. And as far as he knows, she had no reason to leave the apartment as she said she was going to try to fix the VCR until he got back.
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Old 2009-08-30, 13:36   Link #1526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwei View Post
While I do agree about Cal being killed off is not right, I disagree about putting the blame on Reiji about her circumstances, her life would have been screwed up either way.
I agree with you. Inferno was already after her for being a witness. If Reiji wouldnt have taken her in and said she had potential, she would have probably ended up being tortured and maybe killed in Inferno's interrogation room. In my opinion after judy got killed, meeting Reiji was the best thing that could have happened to her.
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Old 2009-08-30, 13:54   Link #1527
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I agree with you. Inferno was already after her for being a witness.
Without Reiji they would have never found out about her to begin with.
But yes, Reiji is the best thing that could have happened to her. God knows what could have happened to that girl on the streets.
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Old 2009-08-30, 15:38   Link #1528
daimonth
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Would have and could have is not an excuse. You are still guilty of killing if the person you shot was going to jump off a cliff.

While the situation might not have been entirely his fault, Reiji still has his own share of responsibility for what happened. Using what if as an excuse is simply a matter of avoiding responsibility and running away from truth.
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Old 2009-08-30, 15:44   Link #1529
orion
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But you can't really expect people to take responsibility forever. There is a point where common sense takes over.

Sure, her life got screwed. She got dumped. She rebounded by being an assassin and got to drink alcohol at a young age, ride a motorcycle and have more money than she ever dreamed of otherwise and escaped the streets. She's a mafia success story. She should have moved on and gotten a boyfriend. Her problem is she can't get over being abandoned and that's what's going to destroy her in the end imo.

As loads of characters have been pointing out even with the Claudia example being thrown at us, living in the past is not a life-extending habit. You have to live for the present as you may not see tomorrow. Drei is stuck in the past. Elen (without memories of her past thank goodness), Reiji and Liz are living in the present. Mio is a normal person and lives for the future.
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Old 2009-08-30, 16:07   Link #1530
daimonth
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The problem is he haven't took ANY responsibility whats so ever. Even in a normal relationship, with him disappearing suddenly after promising to be with her, he owes her an explanation. That is not even taking account of him leaving her in the hand of Scythe and Inferno. However thus far we got nothing.

She was abandoned and left in Scythe's hand. Her position is no different than Ein or Zwei. Neither of them broke away by themselves, Ein had Zwei while Zwei had both Claudia to broke him away from Scythe then Cal to broke him away from Claudia. Cal thus far had no one to help her.

Also let me reiterate that while she has certain control, Cal still had no choice in whether or not she became an assassin or not. It's just that between Reiji leaving her and Scythe maniplating her, her goal coincides with Scythes designs.
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Old 2009-08-30, 16:12   Link #1531
Zwei
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Originally Posted by daimonth View Post
The problem is he haven't took ANY responsibility whats so ever. Even in a normal relationship the very least with him disappearing suddenly after promising to be with her, he owes her an explanation, and that is not taking account of him leaving her in the hand of Scythe and Inferno. However thus far we got nothing.

She was abandoned and left in Scythe's hand. Her position is no different than Ein or Zwei. Neither of them broke away by themselves, Ein had Zwei while Zwei had both Claudia to broke him away from Scythe then Cal to broke him away from Claudia. Cal thus far had no one to help her.

Also let me reiterate that while she has certain control, Cal still had no choice in whether or not she became an assassin or not. It's just that between Reiji leaving her and Scythe maniplating her, her goal coincides with Scythes designs.
But everything you just said is from Cal's view, not Reiji's.
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Old 2009-08-30, 16:24   Link #1532
daimonth
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It's actually from the viewers omniscient view. Being ignorant doesnt absolve you from everything. It is sympathetic but doesn't change the damage that was done. Sorry, I didn't know is only paper thin as far as excuse goes.
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Old 2009-08-30, 16:29   Link #1533
Zwei
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Originally Posted by daimonth View Post
It's actually from the viewers omniscient view. Being ignorant doesnt absolve you from everything. It is sympathetic but doesn't change the damage that was done. Sorry, I didn't know is only paper thin as far as excuse goes.
Well, IMO Reiji doesn't have to take any responsability whatsoever, he picked her up after she had nowhere to go, they grew attached to each other and will obviously get mixed in his life, Reiji being an assassin and all and after the bomb thing, he thought she was dead, obviously no one would have survived and it never crossed Reiji's mind that Cal would have gone out. He never did abondand her nor betrayed her, like she is thinking now, and IMO she knows this but doesn't want to believe it, so she can have a reason for living and go through the same life as Reiji did. I don't blame Reiji for whatever happened to her, like Reiji made choices of his own, Cal did the same, Reiji left with Ein, she left with Sycthe.
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Old 2009-08-30, 16:36   Link #1534
daimonth
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She didn't leave with Scythe. Scythe snatched her off much like what he did with Ein and Zwei.

Like I said, sorry I didn't know doesnt cut it in the face of the actual damage you have done.
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Old 2009-08-30, 16:43   Link #1535
Zwei
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Originally Posted by daimonth View Post
She didn't leave with Scythe. Scythe snatched her off much like what he did with Ein and Zwei.

Like I said, sorry I didn't know doesnt cut it in the face of the actual damage you have done.
We don't get to see yet how Sycthe got hold of Ein. With Zwei he forced him to kill, removed his memories and either he becomes an assassin or gets killed. With Cal, we don't get to see what happened in those 2 years, he only said "Correct, he's a liar." and then 2 years later she's a sadistic assassin, and she acts different with Sycthe than Ein or Zwei did. IMO Cal and Sycthe relationship is similar to Zwei and Claudia(except the sexual relationship).
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Old 2009-08-30, 16:43   Link #1536
Sinestra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Guys. Whoever really thinks that killing Cal means "saving" her needs his head examined. Sorry ^_^;

You can make a case that it's justified. You can make a case that it's deserved. But please stop deluding yourself that you might be doing HER a favor.
Exactly, i wouldn't call it doing her a favor it would be more like pity. The only way to save Cal is to bring her back from the path that she herself chose to walk down because of what happened with Reiji. Cal's problem is not taking responability for her own life its always someone else's fault.

In all honestly Cal should be thanking Reiji if it weren't for him she would have been dead long ago. Whats really going on is starting to become more and more clear to me i think im getting an idea of how its going to end.

The pieces are all there we just have to put them together to form the complete picture.

I 100% agree Mentar
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Old 2009-08-30, 16:58   Link #1537
orion
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Originally Posted by Zwei View Post
We don't get to see yet how Sycthe got hold of Ein. With Zwei he forced him to kill, removed his memories and either he becomes an assassin or gets killed. With Cal, we don't get to see what happened in those 2 years, he only said "Correct, he's a liar." and then 2 years later she's a sadistic assassin, and she acts different with Sycthe than Ein or Zwei did. IMO Cal and Sycthe relationship is similar to Zwei and Claudia(except the sexual relationship).
Yeah, but not having all the info doesn't affect the present. We're in a "He said. She said." scenario. It's best not to take sides imo. Drei continued her revenge for being abandoned instead of moving on. Not expecting him to hook up with someone else after 2 years is stupid beyond belief. Girls and guys get dumped all the time. It's how you handle it that shows your true strength. She's not handling it well imo.

Drei is just a side project to be discarded when the team proves itself imo. SM's not the sentimental type. Drei is really in the Elen position back in chapter 2. A damaged doll to be discarded imo.

Liz was quite surprised about hearing her reason for joining so Cal may have had some choices in what she did after joining.
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Old 2009-08-30, 17:20   Link #1538
Mentar
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Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
Exactly, i wouldn't call it doing her a favor it would be more like pity. The only way to save Cal is to bring her back from the path that she herself chose to walk down because of what happened with Reiji. Cal's problem is not taking responability for her own life its always someone else's fault.
I don't think that I'd say that. Cal is a survivor, she managed on her own before, and she managed on her own afterwards. Right now, she's arguably doing great "vocationally", and it's not like someone like SM would be looking after her and paying her allowance. No, she's been taking responsibility of her own life just fine.

I also don't see her complaining that her life would be someone else's fault, and even less "always". That would imply that something is wrong with her life, and hey, according to Cal, nothing beats terrorizing street gangs with your presence and power.

Her big big problem is the terrible emotional wound she received when Reiji set off to Mexico together with Elen, and which pushed her down exactly the same slippery slope which Reiji wanted to protect her from. This is why Reiji acts the way he does: He genuinely feels responsible for it, but at the same time he doesn't really understand Cal either. Otherwise he wouldn't have tried to quench Cal's fire of rage with gasoline. His talk at the end of the Mio date was so hair-raisingly thickheaded that it was amazing. Talk about max damage.
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Old 2009-08-30, 18:22   Link #1539
miroku2192
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
His talk at the end of the Mio date was so hair-raisingly thickheaded that it was amazing. Talk about max damage.
Tell me about it. I paused the video to bang my head against the wall. The idiot actually said it. And even when he "sorta" realized something was wrong, he wasn't quick enough to expalin, instead, he just said "cal i was..."

*sigh* Reiji can be such a noooooob
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Old 2009-08-30, 19:22   Link #1540
DragoZERO
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Oh. I've been meaning to ask this: do they actually curse (f*ck) like the subtitles say or is it the fansub that I'm watching? I've watched shows and the character says "baka" and the subtitle is a quite foul word, so yeah.
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