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Old 2009-09-06, 09:12   Link #1681
DragoZERO
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Let's not bash each other here. This isn't the place to do it and it would lead no where. I now declare this squabble over!

Getting back on topic...
Spoiler for Episode 23:
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Old 2009-09-06, 09:14   Link #1682
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Intersting. But I think the anime isn't made for especially the VN players. And I think they'll go with an anime-original ening even if it'll resemble one of the VN's endings. Development-wise the Ein-Zwei(Elen-Reiji) ending is almost certain. You can make the protagonist choose a character introduced much later on, but not in a short show like this anime. They've introduced Cal in the first episode somehow, but they neglected her after that and we only saw her more than 10 episodes later in the middle of the show. Writing-wise it's inconvient to choose Cal/Reiji as the main pairing. Not to mention we didn't even saw signs of that happening. Cal/Drei does more and more insane things while Reiji shows little concern about her well-being or feelings. In 3 episodes jumping out that gap is absolutely would smell of rushed writing so I think it's impossible. But still, who knows what the anime-writing will do? Because I smell anime-original ending she can either die or stay alive. But I absolutely can't see a Drei-Zwei pairing for ending.
@Mentar: I see his point.
He means girfriend-boyfriend relationships aren't neccessary that strong. That kind of commitment is more resembles the mariage. And his other point was that the thing Reiji said to Cal then wan't surely romantical. A protective brother with a strong relation could've said something similar to her little sister.
Because of the anime's character styles Cal looks really childish and Reiji is really mature. While in the VN with some imagination we could belive that Cal's 14 and Reiji wasn't that mature either. It makes the whole confession even more dubious than it really is. Let's say that they made that scene somehow wrongly.
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Old 2009-09-06, 09:27   Link #1683
orion
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Originally Posted by willyvereb View Post
@Mentar: I see his point.
He means girfriend-boyfriend relationships aren't neccessary that strong. That kind of commitment is more resembles the mariage. And his other point was that the thing Reiji said to Cal then wan't surely romantical. A protective brother with a strong relation could've said something similar to her little sister.
Because of the anime's character styles Cal looks really childish and Reiji is really mature. While in the VN with some imagination we could belive that Cal's 14 and Reiji wasn't that mature either. It makes the whole confession even more dubious than it really is. Let's say that they made that scene somehow wrongly.
Yes, traditional marriage and family are the only relationships that are "forever". Modern marriages pledge forever but aren't always so.

No I think that the scene was done right. They have to give the players something while keeping the title firmly circa 2009 for the mainstream anime watchers who prob wouldn't share the VN point of view imo.
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Old 2009-09-06, 09:47   Link #1684
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I hope they pull out something with Mio , at least I want her to stay alive because then there's no point in introducing the character for 6 episodes and then just throw her to rubbish bin.
Maybe her death can become a catalyst for Reiji to kill Cal, I hope it won't become like this.
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Old 2009-09-06, 09:49   Link #1685
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Well, in the VN we've got H-scenes kisses and else to confirm the whole Cal/Reiji relationship then, but in the anime we only get strange shower scene and that "confession". But you maybe are right. The directors did it directly. They didn't really want to put much focus on the whole Cal/Reiji relationship. It strenghtens my point about the ending.
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Old 2009-09-06, 09:50   Link #1686
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Right now which Ending route for this anime is going to be happened?!
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Old 2009-09-06, 09:58   Link #1687
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Right now theres no definite clues yet on what ending they will use. Not accounting the fact that they can create a new one for the anime or mix some endings
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Old 2009-09-06, 10:01   Link #1688
DragoZERO
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Seriously, there is too much VN talk here. It needs to be taken elsewhere or put into spoiler tags. Its really not fair.
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Old 2009-09-06, 10:05   Link #1689
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Seriously, there is too much VN talk here. It needs to be taken elsewhere or put into spoiler tags. Its really not fair.
Not really, the only VN talk I'm seeing is the one from the episodes that already aired and can never happen in the anime.
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Old 2009-09-06, 10:07   Link #1690
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It really don't have much. The only "spoilers" are the things already happened in the anime and we compare the two. The other maybe the speculation of ending. But seriously it's not much different than talking about possible pairings in the end.

So I think it's currently fine.
Anyway I haven't said a single thing about ep 23 yet. It was awesome, but not much change in Drei's attitude...if anything she's worse than previously.
I'm waiting for the next episode. It's going to have quite much play of witts and action.
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Old 2009-09-06, 10:40   Link #1691
Mentar
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Originally Posted by willyvereb View Post
@Mentar: I see his point.
He means girfriend-boyfriend relationships aren't neccessary that strong. That kind of commitment is more resembles the mariage. And his other point was that the thing Reiji said to Cal then wan't surely romantical. A protective brother with a strong relation could've said something similar to her little sister.
Again, whether or not it was romantic in nature or a little sister relationship is beside the point - both kinds of relationships are commitments which should not be shrugged off orion-style as some irrelevant triviality. And topping it off by calling anyone "immature" who disagrees with this selfish notion is getting me seriously angry, simple as that. This is exactly the kind of irresponsible selfish stuff which I consider so disgusting in the modern times.

17th_Warrior called Cal dumb for considering herself Reiji's "ex", to which I pointed out that she has more than enough justification to see it like this. Does the anime make it perfectly clear if the relationship was romantic/sexual or brother/sister? No, it intentionally leaves some ambiguity. In ep23, we learn that at least Cal sees it as the former, and most definitely there is at least no objective knowledge that would contradict her.

The anime handling is fine as is.
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Old 2009-09-06, 10:50   Link #1692
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by Zwei View Post
Not really, the only VN talk I'm seeing is the one from the episodes that already aired and can never happen in the anime.
This isn't the VN thread - its the anime. So you don't talk about the VN here. What if someone is planning on buying after the anime is over or something?

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Originally Posted by willyvereb View Post
It really don't have much. The only "spoilers" are the things already happened in the anime and we compare the two. The other maybe the speculation of ending. But seriously it's not much different than talking about possible pairings in the end.

So I think it's currently fine.
There have been spoilers about future episodes as well. Although they may or may not happen, it still spoils it. And it is never fine to spoil something for anyone.
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Old 2009-09-06, 11:11   Link #1693
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
This isn't the VN thread - its the anime. So you don't talk about the VN here. What if someone is planning on buying after the anime is over or something?
You make absolutely no sense. He was talking about past anime episodes, he was talking about H-scenes that have happened but they didn't and will never happen in the anime, they don't even feature them in the game since it's censored, so whoever buys it won't see anything new, unless it's japanese.

As for Ep. 24 no one is giving spoilers, they are just giving speculations.

We can just delete this thread otherwise, it would be pointless.
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Old 2009-09-06, 11:41   Link #1694
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I think DragonZERO's points have merit. We should all (including me) try to reduce the VN talk to the minimum.
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Old 2009-09-06, 11:42   Link #1695
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
Or you don't care and you go on with your life. Not everybody places that much guilt on the family past. That family past put food on her table and gave her a comfortable lifestyle. Loads of families here made money off misdeeds and they progressed rather well.
I'm sure Mio can live a normal life without worrying about getting attacked or kidnapped. Like I said, this extends to people around her as well, people I'm sure she cares about. Even without that, her brother died because of someone she's in love with. If you found out one of your family members whom you cared about and treated you well was dead, and dead because of someone you love, can your return to the "normality" of your life after? Maybe a person could overcome one of these alone, although with some difficulty. However, I think if you combine everything so far, the totality of the circumstances makes it so no matter what she does, life can't be "normal" in the same sense as it was before. That "cute guy" following you around school might not be trying to confess to you, he might be trying to put a bullet in between your eyes, etc. Obviously that's a concern for Mio now given what she knows. Are you really arguing that that's a return to being normal?

As for blood money argument, I guess I just assumed Mio had a sense of morality True, if you lack the moral compass in the first place, you could definitely return to the previous life you lived without caring. However, I'd argue you're not "normal" to begin with in that case. As for your examples, I think they support my point.

However, it's a moot argument. I think our original points were that we feel sorry for Mio. I think everyone feels sorry for Mio at this point, for a lot of reasons. She definitely got the short end of the stick out of everyone involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Spoiler for Episode 23:
Interesting point. Is he trying to avoid hurting Mio more then he has to given the planned escape or is he really unsure himself?

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Originally Posted by evil-samurai View Post
I think she does a bit, not as much in this episode but in past episodes its shows more. (where she had more hope)
Although its clear, Cal (Drei) is a shadow of what she was (on the outside.) Parts of Cal's true inner feelings influence the dialoge that drei speaks, and her reactions. Just like when Cal was speaking to Ellen, "how about I kill you in front of reiji, I wonder what face he will make' Or when Cal says 'Dont make me laugh Zwei, are you that type of person' As evil as can read, deep down part of Cal loves mentioning reiji when she talks as if she knows him best.

We didn't have a whole Arc in which the main character development was with Cal and Reiji for nothing So a touching reuion is in order . We will see Cal regain herself, but I just hope that it ends happy for her which would be with Reiji. But then that leave Ellen.. who in my ideal ending would have a 'fake death' (so she can escape Inferno) and is able to return to her home and find herself... But mabye thats too happy for a show like this.. I hope not.
Hmmm I didn't catch the parts where Cal mentions Reiji like she knows him best. I think you're right in that deep down it makes her feel all warm and fuzzy inside. (barring it being clouded by yandere rage )

Elen I think is probably the most selfless one out of the three Phantoms. The way she's been developed, she's constantly sacrificing for Reiji and has iterated more then once that a.) he's the reason her life isn't pure hell and b.) that she's willing to die for his happiness. I found it kinda weird that she didn't put up more resistance to Mio confessing to Reiji, although you see signs of her struggling with it with her questions to him about it. Actually, I think the preview alludes to Elen's desire to protect Reiji even at the cost of her life. In a sense, Elen sacrificing herself to protect Reiji would be a "happy ending" for her in that she's protecting the person she cares about, but her death would still be bittersweet.

Last edited by Arkard; 2009-09-06 at 12:01. Reason: Additional comments
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Old 2009-09-06, 12:01   Link #1696
Mentar
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However, it's a moot argument. I think our original points were that we feel sorry for Mio. I think everyone feels sorry for Mio at this point, for a lot of reasons. She definitely got the short end of the stick out of everyone involved.
It should be noted however that Mio is a very special case. You don't see her breaking down and cry (even though she was scared), and you don't see her get into angry hissy fits either. Also, she had a deep and genuine grasp of Reiji's mindset.

I hope that the anime will be able to capture the awesomeness that is her, in the next episode. The scene which follows immediately after Mio's last appearance in the preview of 23 is in my opinion THE key scene and turning point of the entire show. Please, Bee Train, get this scene and Mio's part in it right, and the rest of the conclusion can't be messed up anymore, no matter which way you go.

*onegaishimasu*
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Old 2009-09-06, 12:13   Link #1697
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I don't think she'll rape her . Just , she'll undress her and let Reiji thinks that she was raped then it'll make him angry .
Well , i think that they'll fight together against scythe's pets . (maybe)
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Old 2009-09-06, 12:16   Link #1698
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I don't think she'll rape her . Just , she'll undress her and let Reiji thinks that she was raped then it'll make him angry .
As if Cal were one to care about whether someone got hurt because of her revenge path. She wouldn't half ass it and leave things up to chance.
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Old 2009-09-06, 12:26   Link #1699
Arkard
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Careful interpreting the preview, guys. Cal hasn't been physically violent towards Mio in episode 23 (though she did take some pleasure in scaring the hell out of her), and the preview scenes had a reason. Reps for the non-VN-player who can piece together what it might be - and as a minor hint: Throughout the game _and_ the anime, Mio is the most perceptive and empathetic character by far.

If I had to give the episodes names from now on, it would be:

Episode 24: Mio
Episode 25: Phantoms
Episode 26: Inferno
Spoiler for Guess:
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Old 2009-09-06, 13:00   Link #1700
DragoZERO
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I think DragonZERO's points have merit. We should all (including me) try to reduce the VN talk to the minimum.
Thank you very much sir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkard View Post
Interesting point. Is he trying to avoid hurting Mio more then he has to given the planned escape or is he really unsure himself.
Yeah, I think this is another instance of viewer interpretation and opinion. They really are doing a lot of that, and not in a bad way either.
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