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Old 2013-05-30, 16:26   Link #921
Bonta Kun
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Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Scanlations are out.

Spoiler for c63:
lol kinda found it rather amusing and pretty awesome in it's own right but Zess is just digging his grave at this point.
I really hope there isn't some "Naruto" make up and kiss, let bygones be bygones shit here, I fully expect to see Rygart and Zess go at it in a full fight and one of them ends up dead at the end.
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Old 2013-05-30, 17:22   Link #922
Sinestra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fwarlord View Post
Bring back? From my POV, what Sigyn did is just reverting Rygart back from a soldier to a mere farmer. She don't want him to fight, she wants to build a peaceful family with him. That way of thinking is completely unreal. Their country is currently at war and there is noway Athens will spare the pilot of Delphine and the queen of Krisna. This way, Sigyn is the biggest obstacle that prevent Rygart to become a complete soldier. If she were to die, Rygart may loose his sanity but he will recover somehow and grow to be stronger just like when Girge was killed. But as long as Sigyn stay alive, Rygart can't be anything but a farmer. Her death is necessary for his mindset to evolve from a farmer's to a soldier's.
A little heartless arent ya lol. When you love someone of course you dont want them to go to war or be killed. For intent and purposes this current war was over they had won. It was already pointed out several times that Rygart was not cut out to be a solider. Why do you think he had a nervous break down after it was over. Other tried to bring him back from the brink and were unsuccessful and its easy to see why. It was only till Sigyn started to spending time with him reminding him of happier days and bringing his real personality back out did he start to get back to normal. You think every civilian is cut out for war to see the death the destruction to see friends and innocent people killed right before your eyes. majority of people could not handle it and Rygart only got through it because he was protecting his friends but as soon as it all sank in including the fact that he took lives his mind crumbled its called PTSD. Rygart does not need to become a complete solider that is not "him" Zess is a complete solider and look at him. Rygart never truly came to terms with Girge death go back and read that chapter he was able to swallow it down but the guilt he feels is still there.

Im confused as to why you are so pressed on him becoming a solider. There is nothing wrong with him being a farmer and he was going to go back to do it once the war was over anyway. Sigyns death is not required for him to be either or whats required is him to make choice or be both its not written in stone that he has to be one or other solely. Sigyns death would scare him eternally and alienate him from Hodr he would be alone and i doubt he would recover given how he puts everything on his shoulders he would blame himself for the rest of his life. There is no way both Zess and Rygart are surviving the end of this, one of them will die and neither will be better off because of it.

Quote:
And yes, I know Rygart has changed, but that's just temporary. As soon as he begins to change completely, Sigyn appears and revert him back to be a farmer by remind him of a normal life they could have as well as his love for her. She scares that he will change and become a person she don't recognize. Sigyn loves Rygart the farmer, not Rygart the warrior. And innocent or not, Rygart is still a kid who can't stand the death of both is allies or his enemies. That won't do. A soldier should care not for those kind of things and fight to win only. He is fighting on the loosing side and the winning side won't spare him. So his only way to survive is becomes a real soldier and leads his country to victory.
Ill be honest man this entire paragraph scared the living shit out of me. Have you ever been in the military? You need to learn what being a solider really means and what separates a solider defending his country from a common murderer. If Rygart is fighting on the losing side why did they win and kill arguably one of the most accomplished/brutal generals Athens had. As of right now no clear side has the advantage we dont have enough info to make that call especially with whats going on in Assam. A man without compassion is just an animal killing another animal. If Rygart were to follow your example he would be just like the monster he killed not to long ago. If you are a person that could kill unarmed children and women and people then i feel sorry for you but that is what you have hinted to in your statements.

Remember

-"As soon as war is looked upon as wicked, it will always have its fascination. When it is looked upon as vulgar, it will cease to be popular."
Oscar Wilde

-"It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it"
Robert E Lee

-and my favorite

"War is too serious a matter to entrust to military men."
Georges Clemenceau
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Old 2013-05-30, 18:11   Link #923
Avaricia
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Old 2013-05-30, 23:01   Link #924
Fwarlord
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Spoiler for Sinestra:

Don't need to get so serious.
My opinion is simple: Krisna is loosing and their only hope is Rygart but he can't lead them to victory if his mindset remain as a farmer's. That's why Rygart should learn to be a complete soldier.
Did you really think the war was over and Krisna has won? No, this is just the beginning. General Borcuse was killed and his invasion was prevented. But does that mean anything? Athens is still a bigger country compare to Krisna, their army is larger and tronger, Borcuse isn't their only capable general, Zess has came to power. That mean Athens can pull out another invasion anytime. Look at Krisna. Their army was exhausted due to the previous war. Hodr's government is unpopular with the mass majority of people. Delphine, the only reason why Krisna could defeat Borcuse's army, nearly cease to function. What's going on in Assam just mean Athens has enough power to fight in 2 battlefield at the same time.
I know it's normal for a civilian to has a mental break down when seeing so many death in such a short amount of time and that guy need professional treatment to go back to balance state. But Rygart's case is definitely not normal at all. He is not just any civilian that was force to go to battlefield. He is the "hero" and the only hope of his country. And usually, a "hero" of a country is treated as a "demon" by opposite side, especially when they are at war. But don't get me wrong. I told nothing about killing women, children and innocent civilians. It's just Rygart should grow accustomed with killing enemy's soldier and fell nothing about that. Or else he will have mental breakdown every time he return from battlefield. He just need to breakdown completely one time only to become a true soldier who could shoulder the burden of his country. Rygart nearly did that once after killing Borcuse, if it's not thank to Sigyn who scared shitless and tried her best to normalize him. That's why someone like Sigyn is definitely not needed for Rygart's sake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonta Kun View Post
lol kinda found it rather amusing and pretty awesome in it's own right but Zess is just digging his grave at this point.
I really hope there isn't some "Naruto" make up and kiss, let bygones be bygones shit here, I fully expect to see Rygart and Zess go at it in a full fight and one of them ends up dead at the end.
Unless Athens' army would be defeated, all of Zess's subordinate would be killed and the capital would fall, in other word, a complete victory of Krisna against Athens, I can't see why would a leader of a country like Zess combat hand in hand with a grunt like Rygart in a solo fight.

Last edited by Fwarlord; 2013-05-31 at 00:15.
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Old 2013-05-31, 01:13   Link #925
evil|plushie
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If their only hope is Rygart, they're screwed. He's not a tactician or a general or anything. He's a mech pilot that pilots a pretty powerful mech and that's it.
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Old 2013-05-31, 03:29   Link #926
Kleeyook
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Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
If their only hope is Rygart, they're screwed. He's not a tactician or a general or anything. He's a mech pilot that pilots a pretty powerful mech and that's it.
Well, Krishna already have capable strategists and tacticians. It's actually good that Rygart is only a pilot since there wouldn't be much conflict of interests or any jealousy arise in the story. Also, aren't most Gundam pilots simply pilots?
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Old 2013-05-31, 08:50   Link #927
Sinestra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fwarlord View Post
Don't need to get so serious.
Quote:
My opinion is simple: Krisna is loosing and their only hope is Rygart but he can't lead them to victory if his mindset remain as a farmer's. That's why Rygart should learn to be a complete soldier.
Rygart will never become a complete solider, look at the underlying themes of the series its very clear and its already clear that Rygart will be haunted by several tragic incidents for the rest of his life but will come to terms with it. Rygart is the type of person who can never be okay with taking someones life thats his personality but he will do what needs to be done when push comes to shove. If Rygart is his countries only hope i would flee he is just a pilot and an average one at that. Its his machine that gives him the advantage in battle.

Quote:
Did you really think the war was over and Krisna has won? No, this is just the beginning. General Borcuse was killed and his invasion was prevented. But does that mean anything? Athens is still a bigger country compare to Krisna, their army is larger and tronger, Borcuse isn't their only capable general, Zess has came to power. That mean Athens can pull out another invasion anytime. Look at Krisna. Their army was exhausted due to the previous war. Hodr's government is unpopular with the mass majority of people. Delphine, the only reason why Krisna could defeat Borcuse's army, nearly cease to function. What's going on in Assam just mean Athens has enough power to fight in 2 battlefield at the same time.
No the war is not over and both armies were nearly crippled Athens put a lot resources into the campaign and on top of that their own resources are dwindling which is why they launched the war to begin with. I predict that Athens has enough resources to build their new Mecha's and launch one more large offensive. Athens may have a large standing army but with no resources an attack from multiple fronts would push even them to their limits and we have 3 potential counties who would join the fray.

Quote:
I know it's normal for a civilian to has a mental break down when seeing so many death in such a short amount of time and that guy need professional treatment to go back to balance state. But Rygart's case is definitely not normal at all. He is not just any civilian that was force to go to battlefield. He is the "hero" and the only hope of his country. And usually, a "hero" of a country is treated as a "demon" by opposite side, especially when they are at war. But don't get me wrong. I told nothing about killing women, children and innocent civilians. It's just Rygart should grow accustomed with killing enemy's soldier and fell nothing about that. Or else he will have mental breakdown every time he return from battlefield. He just need to breakdown completely one time only to become a true soldier who could shoulder the burden of his country. Rygart nearly did that once after killing Borcuse, if it's not thank to Sigyn who scared shitless and tried her best to normalize him. That's why someone like Sigyn is definitely not needed for Rygart's sake.
This is where you are mistaken Rygart is normal he is just a civilian, the only thing that makes him special is he is an unsorcerer which allowed to pilot Delphine. One man alone can not rescue a country Rygart was successful because of the people around him he is a hero but being a hero alone will not save his friends, his family and his country from destruction. Not sure why you think hes the only hope for the Krisnia. remember technically Rygart is not a good pilot, so him being the only hope for his country is debatable.

Again, you are missing the point behind what Sigyn tried to do for Rygart, i think you need to read the chapters again. What she did was necessary to bring Rygart back from that dark place he banished himself too due to the events of the war again its called PSTD and there are certain ways it needs to be treated. If it were not for Sigyn he would not have recovered due to everyone else trying and failing to get him back on track and to stop his drinking and fighting. I dont have a problem with Sigyn dying for the right reasons and if its advance the story but i whole disagree that her dying is the only way for Rygart to advance himself there are multiple ways.


Quote:
Unless Athens' army would be defeated, all of Zess's subordinate would be killed and the capital would fall, in other word, a complete victory of Krisna against Athens, I can't see why would a leader of a country like Zess combat hand in hand with a grunt like Rygart in a solo fight.
There is no guarantee that all Zess's elite would be killed in the coming battles so will yes but i doubt all will. The capital will need to be taken or subjected to a siege. Remember in war you want to attack the enemies resources an army fights on its stomach and mecha's fight on fuel and ammo. Zess is not the leader of his country he is a General his brother has more power than he does and their is also a ruling class in place. This will not only play out militarily but it will also play politically as well, which will be very important in the end. Knowing Zess and Rygart i would not be surprised if they ended up in a fist fight at the end.
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Old 2013-05-31, 08:55   Link #928
Tenzen12
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Originally Posted by Kleeyook View Post
Well, Krishna already have capable strategists and tacticians. It's actually good that Rygart is only a pilot since there wouldn't be much conflict of interests or any jealousy arise in the story. Also, aren't most Gundam pilots simply pilots?
Nope, they are (with few exceptions) monsters with psychic powers. Rygart is more interesting in that metter.
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Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
Rygart will never become a complete solider, look at the underlying themes of the series its very clear and its already clear that Rygart will be haunted by several tragic incidents for the rest of his life but will come to terms with it. Rygart is the type of person who can never be okay with taking someones life thats his personality but he will do what needs to be done when push comes to shove. If Rygart is his countries only hope i would flee he is just a pilot and an average one at that. Its his machine that gives him the advantage in battle.
Isn't it same for many soldiers? To be happy about killing isn't factor that decide persons worth as soldier. Actualy fact that he is still able do it when it come to it is.



Quote:
This is where you are mistaken Rygart is normal he is just a civilian, the only thing that makes him special is he is an unsorcerer which allowed to pilot Delphine. One man alone can not rescue a country Rygart was successful because of the people around him he is a hero but being a hero alone will not save his friends, his family and his country from destruction. Not sure why you think hes the only hope for the Krisnia. remember technically Rygart is not a good pilot, so him being the only hope for his country is debatable.
While I agree overaly, Rygart IS elite pilot. Maybe he never will be on pair with Borcus or Zess, but it's obvious that Delphine can't get all ovation. If yout think about that even fact that he were able adapt Girche fighting style tells a lot about his skills. Also Rygart can be hardly considered normal civilian after war changed him so much. Proof is how hard time he had adapt to peace times (drinking and stuff)

Quote:
Again, you are missing the point behind what Sigyn tried to do for Rygart, i think you need to read the chapters again. What she did was necessary to bring Rygart back from that dark place he banished himself too due to the events of the war again its called PSTD and there are certain ways it needs to be treated. If it were not for Sigyn he would not have recovered due to everyone else trying and failing to get him back on track and to stop his drinking and fighting. I dont have a problem with Sigyn dying for the right reasons and if its advance the story but i whole disagree that her dying is the only way for Rygart to advance himself there are multiple ways.
To say that "everyone tryed and failed" is wrong. What PTSD need most is time and I belive Rygart friends and comrades provided enough support. Only thing that Sigyn done si provided Rygart with distraction anything would do including another war. Tat said I am not trying denny her merit here.

Last edited by Tenzen12; 2013-05-31 at 09:37.
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Old 2013-06-04, 17:01   Link #929
Velsy
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Now that I've read the translated chapter

Wow, really ? Rygart arrested because Iris said he was a soldier ? Is he a mind raeder or something ? It would have to be more or less Iris didnt like the look of him. He just didnt want to admit it. Kinda wish Girge had finished him off :/

Hope Kishnas putting there special forces team together soon, They going to need to rescue Rygart and the Queen. Hopefully they can corabilate a game plan with the Assams resistance fighters help. As Zess has comfirmed shes to be executed. This whole buiness with princesses is still a little confusing with resistance calling her a traitor. But I still think the princess who escaped to Kishna is the real deal, othwise why would Athens be demanding to hand her over ?

Also confirmed this chapter that Zess was purposly ordering the civilan slaughter of many villages. Hes a true bastard.
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Old 2013-06-04, 18:29   Link #930
Arabesque
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Originally Posted by Velsy View Post
This whole buiness with princesses is still a little confusing with resistance calling her a traitor.
The assassin was probably fighting on the Orlando/Assam Independence side, or was just not fond of being forced to be under Athens rule. Either way, he viewed Prederica as being nothing more than a traitor on the sole point that she was willing to be part of the Athenian Commonwealth and be subjected to their sovereignty.

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But I still think the princess who escaped to Kishna is the real deal, othwise why would Athens be demanding to hand her over ?
My own theory is that they are twins, given that they both have the hairpin and it wouldn't be likely for them to just hand over such a valuable heirloom to an impostor. As for why they wanted for Krisna to hand her over ... well, part of it being that they knew that Krisna wouldn't do so (which would give Athens further reason to harden their position on the war), part was formal procedure (when a pretender appears, the heads of state want them to be handed to them so they'd be trialled and summarily executed) and part of if being all according to plan, if it turns out that the Prederica in was actually a trap to make Krisna seem like it wants to defy Athens further and also aid in kidnapping Sigyn.

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Originally Posted by Velsy View Post
Also confirmed this chapter that Zess was purposly ordering the civilan slaughter of many villages. Hes a true bastard.
Honestly, he just gave her a non-answer. We have no idea if he actually order the death of everyone in the village or if that was the work of the squad that captured Sigyn and he's just keeping it under wraps.

The one thing we know for sure is that Zess is on full on guilt trip mode now, and is willing to do what it takes to appease his brother and prove that he's loyal and all that jazz. I'm not sure how killing that entire village matches with that mentality, but maybe he's just crazy after all ...
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Old 2013-06-05, 01:17   Link #931
ReddyRedWolf
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I guess Cleo is going traitor. As everything she has been taught about the enemy is a lie.
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Old 2013-06-05, 02:34   Link #932
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by Velsy View Post
Wow, really ? Rygart arrested because Iris said he was a soldier ? Is he a mind raeder or something ? It would have to be more or less Iris didnt like the look of him. He just didnt want to admit it. Kinda wish Girge had finished him off :/
On the contrary, I would say that General Iris is a sharp man worthy of his ‘General’ title. He can spot a man who has been hardened (to a certain degree) by war. Also, I bet Iris can tell that Rygart was lying the second he told his (fake) name . So, in this case, Iris is doing service for his country by arresting Rygart since he is indeed suspicious .
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Old 2013-06-05, 03:44   Link #933
kuroishinigami
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I think it's quite clear the general know Rygart is a soldier due to his (lack) of response to the dead man by his side. A normal person would be terrified or even freak out seeing someone get killed by his side, yet Rygart is considerably calm.
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Old 2013-06-07, 01:36   Link #934
evil|plushie
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He could just be a sociopath
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Old 2013-06-07, 18:57   Link #935
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Athens should just offer Kristna a secret conditional surrender and get this over with....(which is how it should've been from the very beginning but Athen was too cocky).
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Old 2013-06-07, 19:15   Link #936
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Athens should just offer Kristna a secret conditional surrender and get this over with....(which is how it should've been from the very beginning but Athen was too cocky).
that has always been BB biggest plot hole. The whole surrender and i am going to slaughter your entire family is completely ridicules.
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Old 2013-06-07, 19:30   Link #937
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by maplehurry View Post
Athens should just offer Kristna a secret conditional surrender and get this over with....(which is how it should've been from the very beginning but Athen was too cocky).
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
that has always been BB biggest plot hole. The whole surrender and i am going to slaughter your entire family is completely ridicules.
Isn’t that due to “not enough quartz for everyone” issue? Because of that, the Athens took a “subduing and conquering” approach so that they could take as much Krisna’s quartz as they want for their own people and "to hell with Krisnan people!". Athens even go so far as teaching their youngs that Krisnans are savages (as mirrored by Cleo) so that there won't be much protest just in case they need to massacre the Krisnans.
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Old 2013-06-07, 19:34   Link #938
maplehurry
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Kristna was ready to surrender so Athen's could've taken the quartz without starting a war with Kristna.
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Old 2013-06-07, 19:38   Link #939
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Kristna was ready to surrender so Athen's could've taken the quartz without starting a war with Kristna.
But clearly that’s not what Athens want. They want more. They want Krisna to “lose its head” so that they can “manage” its people more easily.
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Old 2013-06-07, 20:15   Link #940
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That could be the case. But if Athen's really trying, they can just assassinate the royal family secretly without telling them about it in advance. Because that actually lower the chance of eliminating the royal family.
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