International Saimoe League 2009

[Crisu]

Honesty and integrity have been the guiding principles behind all my work and motivation in this tournament since the first day I joined, and I hope the rest of the staff (and all participants taking part in voting as well) operate on the same values.

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by Juice[Lemon]

Maybe in your view.

In my personal view, I saw it as a way for a character, with the help of a few passionate fans, to be considered by voters who might have had that character slip by their minds during the nomination period.

I definitely did not see it as a mechanism for the Sailor Senshi to enter the tournament.

Considering who I actually wanted to get into at least prelims, I was rather specific in my last comment, but to put it in general terms, I saw the nomination system as rather a method to let the unheard candidates "slip in". If you look at the nomination standings right now, you would see that all a candidate needed were 10 devoted nominators to nominate said candidate in the 10 slot to enter the preliminary system. If you look at the candidates that have been virtually rooted out, I would expect many of them to get much more votes in preliminaries than Shirakawa Kotori's constant 80s votes. Hence, I'm not sure at this point that the nomination system we've used is the right one.

IIRC, I borrowed the nomination system from the now defunct SaiGAR. I can now see why SaiGAR collapsed on the same year they first implemented this system. So, it's not likely we're going to use this nomination system again...

[Ithekro]

SaiGAR collapsed because it got trolled...hard.

[chaosprophet]

I'm happy that we had the preliminars and that the number of characters was expanded to 48. Without that Osaka, Ilya and Ami wouldn't have made it.

Poor Hecate. She was almos there... no love to SnS characters besides Shana..

Originally Posted by minhtam1638

Considering who I actually wanted to get into at least prelims, I was rather specific in my last comment, but to put it in general terms, I saw the nomination system as rather a method to let the unheard candidates "slip in". If you look at the nomination standings right now, you would see that all a candidate needed were 10 devoted nominators to nominate said candidate in the 10 slot to enter the preliminary system. If you look at the candidates that have been virtually rooted out, I would expect many of them to get much more votes in preliminaries than Shirakawa Kotori's constant 80s votes. Hence, I'm not sure at this point that the nomination system we've used is the right one.

IIRC, I borrowed the nomination system from the now defunct SaiGAR. I can now see why SaiGAR collapsed on the same year they first implemented this system. So, it's not likely we're going to use this nomination system again...

Un.. you mean that the nomination system was supposed to help very moe characters from series that are not very famous or mostly forgotten because while not many people would nominate them they would give a good amount of points to them? (as they are very moe)

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by chaosprophet

Un.. you mean that the nomination system was supposed to help very moe characters from series that are not very famous or mostly forgotten because while not many people would nominate them they would give a good amount of points to them? (as they are very moe)

Not very sure why I implemented it in the first place, but I definitely see the pros and cons of it as of this point. So, really, it doesn't really all that matter to me. I think it is more or less balancing the playing field, if you want to put it that way.

[KholdStare]

Like I said, I recommend going with melange's proposal.

That and I'm taking pictures of little girls.

[Ithekro]

Interesting that we have over two thousand post (and 100 pages) and the tournament hasn't even started yet.

[Mushi]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

That and I'm taking pictures of little girls.

LOLWTFBBQ!!!1!!1!!

I don't think it's such a bad thing if a few passionate fans have a chance to bring a potential candidate into the running.

[Juice[Lemon]]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Interesting that we have over two thousand post (and 100 pages) and the tournament hasn't even started yet.

That is the power of moé!!

[Crisu]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Interesting that we have over two thousand post (and 100 pages) and the tournament hasn't even started yet.

http://www.internationalsaimoe.com/forum/

Perhaps we should divert some of that energy. ^^;

Or rather allow potential energy to develop. I'm sure there are a lot of things people haven't said here on AS since it's just a single ISML thread and not an entire forum.

Well now we have a whole forum. Go nuts.

[Mushi]

Originally Posted by Crisu

Well now we have a whole forum. Go nuts.

I registered, but this is where I'll be spending most of my ISML time, I think. It just feels like home. That, and I'm usually logged in to AS 24/7 anyhow.

I do see the Campaign and Promotion area, though. That might come in handy.

[KholdStare]

I seriously recommend you all to start posting in the new forum. It could pull some non-AS posters also. And yes, campaign, campaign, and campaign.

[Eater of All]

Hmm... a new official ISML forum. Last year's was so deserted that I couldn't even help liven it up. But apparently, this year's inplemented a slightly different forum structure, and it does feel a bit more comfortable. Plus, ISML seems to have established a steady voter base that might actually notice this new forum.

Hope it'll succeed. Of course, I'll be helping to spam threads again this year also (EDIT: When I get barraged less with homework... ugh.)

[Ithekro]

On a related note: the first OVA of Higurashi Rei is out (fanservice!) as are the second episodes of Haruhi-chan.

Hanyuu is so moe its scary. "Nipah"

[Sonae]

Okay, I looked through my album. There is a lot of good C.C. official art that I have. I have barely any Anya and like no good Kallen. So here's some I think may be good. All the C.C. ones won't be here.

Spoiler:

There's another Anya one but I need to check the address

[Mushi]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

I seriously recommend you all to start posting in the new forum.

Very well. Ganbaru.

[edit]- Uhm... that forum just got all wonky. None of the topic contents are showing and there are "PHP Notice" lines of text at the top of the background.

[wontaek]

Originally Posted by minhtam1638

Not very sure why I implemented it in the first place, but I definitely see the pros and cons of it as of this point. So, really, it doesn't really all that matter to me. I think it is more or less balancing the playing field, if you want to put it that way.

Originally Posted by KholdStare

Like I said, I recommend going with melange's proposal.

That and I'm taking pictures of little girls.

In a round about way, ISML starts to resemble more and more closer to what I envisioned as a 'fair' yet 'fun' moe tournament. My first system would have nomination phase very similar to the current ISML, then a preliminary, which would have selected something like 24 out of 48, and then the main round, which could be many things. Psieye and I had some discussions about this, which may or may not influenced how the things here shaped up.

There is no such thing as perfect system. Every system has some pros and cons. Although I grieve at Kotori, Yomi, and Yoko not making it to the main 64, I now believe having some preliminary is better than none, provided some of following changes be made. I believe minhty already mentioned about implementing some of them.

1. Allow more than 1 votes per voters to minimize the splitting of votes between two similar characters or two characters from same series. Other than Touhou and perhaps Code Geass, ISML is not dominated by any large faction or block voters who will vote based on series, in contrast to other moe tournaments. In this climate, allowing multiple votes will give better representation of overall preference of the voter compared to just 1 vote per voter, which will lead to tactical/strategic votes once relative strength between characters can be guessed. Even if we have significat number of block/series voters, as long as they remain less than 30% of the total voters, multiple votes still will give fairer results.

2. Since more than 1 vote is allowed, more than 1 characters should advance per group. Added benefit to this scheme is that it makes guessing of relative strength between the characters much harder, thus will make tactical voting less likely, and it will speed up the preliminary phase.

3. This is a biggie, that may be much harder to swallow compared to the first 2. In order to lessen the number of recurring candidates and more fresh blood through nomination and prelim, change the cut off point of ISML winning percentage from 1/2 = 50% to 2/3 ~ 67%. This would mean instead of top 33 returning, we would have top 20 returning, thus more slots to fill for the nomination and prelim. This will drastically increase the excitement of the prelim, and will help improve the winning percentages of those who enter through prelim, thus making the top 16 harder to guess. If 2/3 ~67% sounds too drastic, we could lower the percentage slightly to 65% which would allow 24 to return. 65% is a nice number as that is close to 40 wins ~ 63% threshold.

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by wontaek

1. Allow more than 1 votes per voters to minimize the splitting of votes between two similar characters or two characters from same series. Other than Touhou and perhaps Code Geass, ISML is not dominated by any large faction or block voters who will vote based on series, in contrast to other moe tournaments. In this climate, allowing multiple votes will give better representation of overall preference of the voter compared to just 1 vote per voter, which will lead to tactical/strategic votes once relative strength between characters can be guessed. Even if we have significat number of block/series voters, as long as they remain less than 30% of the total voters, multiple votes still will give fairer results

That, I think, would be likely to be implemented than not. In the regular season, you have 32 matches to vote in, so you're virtually voting for 32 candidates at one time. So it sort of does make sense to allow at the most 2 votes per group (3 is pushing it)

Originally Posted by wontaek

2. Since more than 1 vote is allowed, more than 1 characters should advance per group. Added benefit to this scheme is that it makes guessing of relative strength between the characters much harder, thus will make tactical voting less likely, and it will speed up the preliminary phase.

I disagree. The International Saimoe League rewards candidates based on prestige, and I do not agree a 2nd place finish is enough for a candidate to move on to the regular season. More on that below.

Originally Posted by wontaek

3. This is a biggie, that may be much harder to swallow compared to the first 2. In order to lessen the number of recurring candidates and more fresh blood through nomination and prelim, change the cut off point of ISML winning percentage from 1/2 = 50% to 2/3 ~ 67%. This would mean instead of top 33 returning, we would have top 20 returning, thus more slots to fill for the nomination and prelim. This will drastically increase the excitement of the prelim, and will help improve the winning percentages of those who enter through prelim, thus making the top 16 harder to guess. If 2/3 ~67% sounds too drastic, we could lower the percentage slightly to 65% which would allow 24 to return. 65% is a nice number as that is close to 40 wins ~ 63% threshold.

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I believe that the original proposition of 16 slots to determine the preliminary slots are enough, and any number higher than 20 is pushing it. The .500 rule is in place not only to reward candidates for winning more than losing, but to limit the number of nominations you need to get in. Part of the beauty of the International Saimoe League is that while, yes, the prelims are fun to watch, the point is that you have to have some substantial success in said moe tournament to even deserve a spot in this league. The preliminary system makes it so that you only need 1 win to get in as opposed to the 6 or 7 to win Korea or Japan's tournaments. And let me remind you something, it is HARDER to win a side-prize in the International Saimoe League in itself than it is to win the Anime Saimoe of Japan. That's the point of the automatic qualification system that we have here in ISML, and a proposition like this would diminish the storied success and value of obtaining even a place in a prestigious league like this.

[uis]

i hope new ISML forum not lonely like last year...

[KholdStare]

@ wontaek:

I'm not sure if you will love our new preliminary system, but the new system that we are thinking of (which I don't know if I can reveal because of Juice) is very different from what we have right now. I think it's more "fair" and will not encounter the problem that you posed way back.