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Old 2008-12-18, 17:54   Link #81
Fipskuul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
The President sure got some good reflexes to dodge those shoes.
That's one of the trainings Presidents go through before getting seated, and now he is going to teach it to his successor. There is always some guy out there who would want to throw something at you, be it shoe, tomato, cake, bottle, or something else.
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Old 2008-12-18, 18:00   Link #82
MakubeX2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
That's one of the trainings Presidents go through before getting seated, and now he is going to teach it to his successor. There is always some guy out there who would want to throw something at you, be it shoe, tomato, cake, bottle, or something else.
Obama's a basketball player. So he'll be more badass than Bush, throw something at him and he'll toss it right back at ya, I'll say.
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Old 2008-12-18, 18:24   Link #83
Shadow Kira01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
Obama's a basketball player. So he'll be more badass than Bush, throw something at him and he'll toss it right back at ya, I'll say.
As long as US president-elect Barack Obama works his policy and political directions toward the things he promised during his election campaign, nobody will toss anything at him. Instead, he will earn the admiration and respect from most non-Americans.
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Old 2008-12-18, 20:35   Link #84
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
As long as US president-elect Barack Obama works his policy and political directions toward the things he promised during his election campaign, nobody will toss anything at him. Instead, he will earn the admiration and respect from most non-Americans.
And probably some Americans.
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Old 2008-12-18, 22:28   Link #85
Shadow Kira01
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...h-shoe-thrower

It seems that something unpleasant may be happening to the poor Iraqi journalist who is held captive right now and may end up getting sentenced to prison for at least 2 years for assaulting a foreign leader. Otherwise, it is not possible for him to apologize after such an emotional incident of a shoe toss. Obviously, the shoe toss wasn't a joke and I don't see why he is apologizing all of a sudden, unless something bad is done to him while held captive.
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Old 2008-12-18, 23:04   Link #86
Fipskuul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...h-shoe-thrower

It seems that something unpleasant may be happening to the poor Iraqi journalist who is held captive right now and may end up getting sentenced to prison for at least 2 years for assaulting a foreign leader. Otherwise, it is not possible for him to apologize after such an emotional incident of a shoe toss. Obviously, the shoe toss wasn't a joke and I don't see why he is apologizing all of a sudden, unless something bad is done to him while held captive.
The Iraqi government leaders (whoever they are) consider themselves as the puppies who had to lick US leaders' shoes to stay at their position.

Imagine this.

If the same thing would have done against Saudi leaders or any other Arab country leader, those guys would have been legally tortured and put in prison for the rest of their lives. Their normal is not your normal. They are not capable of thinking regarding how an American might act in this situation, even though they see it with their own eyes.

So, right now, I believe it is not only the guy who is feeling the side effects of his action. It is quite likely that his family will also feel its effects. Be it the American trained police or Saddam police. They come from the same cup, they share the same lifestyle. And they are capable of doing the same things. Also, the tribal people in Middle East never get satisfied by just punishing the person in consideration. They also feel themselves responsible to also punish the family of that person (similar to blood feuds, and this does not always work as one from me, one from you). In my country there are many examples of that, even though the impact of tribes are highly limited. And I am sure Iraq should be in much worse conditions.

Let's hope that, at least, his family survives that.
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Old 2008-12-18, 23:49   Link #87
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It seems to me that Bush has missed a golden opportunity to score some goodwill in the Middle East by simply asking al-Maliki to pardon the poor journalist.

After all, the shoe-throwing act is, ironically, a good example of the "democracy" that the United States has "given" to Iraq.
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Old 2008-12-19, 00:02   Link #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
It seems to me that Bush has missed a golden opportunity to score some goodwill in the Middle East by simply asking al-Maliki to pardon the poor journalist.
Funny, that's exactly what I was thinking this morning. But, Bush is on his way out anyways so I suppose it's not as significant after all...
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Old 2008-12-19, 15:31   Link #89
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LOL at all the fantastic photoshopped images currently on the "internets" demonstrating Bush's incredible ninja prowess even at the age of 62. So that's what he's good at.

And pardon for going off topic, this is in response to ShimatheKat's post a few pages ago:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimatheKat View Post
As some analysts call it, the "Taiwan" stage of democracy.

The list goes like this.

Hong Kong stage (where democracy exists, but limited hugely)
Taiwan/Thailand (new democracy)
American/Canadian (active democracy)
Singapore (where there is active debate, but little else - usually when people turn disinterested in politics)
Japanese stage, where people can't be bothered about politics.
If your list is intended to be in evolutionary order, than I have to disagree. The Singapore stage can hardly be called active, but it's deliberately suppressed at or even below the Hong Kong stage, not being allowed to grow naturally. Publish anything that puts the government in a bad light and you'll get sued ridiculously easily. Not even the HK gov't does that (though there are some miscreants who wish they should).

So the list is something like this:

Quote:
-2. "North Korea" stage - Zero democracy, all dissent brutally crushed.

-1. "China" stage - Zero democracy, dissent allowed to some extent, but don't push your luck.

0. "Russia", "Singapore" stage - With (sometimes unfair or engineered) one-sided) elections, but dissent must not go too far. At risk of falling below Stage 0 anytime.

1. "Hong Kong", "Malaysia" stage - With rigged system but otherwise fair elections, where even if the ruling party remains in control, the opposition at least put up a decent fight and aren't completely squeezed dry by ruthless gov't maneuverings, not yet anyway. Dissent tolerated or even totally allowed, but don't expect much change. Potential risk of reverting to Stage 0 or below.

2. "Taiwan", "Thailand" stage - New democracy with your good ol' pro-wrestling entertainment. Critics of democracy always like to cite these examples as to why "enlightened despotism" is good for you, while conveniently failing to realize that established democracies like US, UK and France went through such a stage as well. Slight risk of reverting to Stage 0.

3.0 "US", "UK" stage - Mature democracy. Politicking still there, but at least it's not as shameless compared to those you see in Stage 2. Most of the time anyway. Too mature to go back to Stage 0.

3.1. "Japan" stage - Mature democracy, but lots of public apathy and cynicism. However, if the gov't takes full advantage of this apathy and cynicism, the public might just be pissed off enough to move it back to Stage 3.0.
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Last edited by Kinny Riddle; 2008-12-20 at 12:04.
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Old 2008-12-19, 17:04   Link #90
Shadow Kira01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimatheKat View Post
As some analysts call it, the "Taiwan" stage of democracy.

The list goes like this:

Hong Kong stage (where democracy exists, but limited hugely)
Taiwan/Thailand (new democracy)
American/Canadian (active democracy)
Singapore (where there is active debate, but little else - usually when people turn disinterested in politics)
Japanese stage, where people can't be bothered about politics.
I also disagree.

Do you even know what the term "democracy" mean? As the places you mentioned, most of them don't seem to be democratic at all. Certainly, North America is very democratic which is correct. Singaporeans are not dis-interested in politics, but rather pressured and stressed to be dis-interested. Generally, the country is somewhat a dictatorship regime when it comes to politics, even though it promotes a democratic-styled economy, kinda like the current Russia minus the military power, of course.. If the Singapore government finds anybody that deviates from the perspective of the government, the individual or group will be in some trouble. And if the individual or group is not ethnic Chinese, they might get deported because the regime promotes racism and double-standard citizenship. Democracy? Yeah, right.. Nice joke!
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Old 2008-12-22, 21:35   Link #91
Hari Michiru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
I also disagree.

Do you even know what the term "democracy" mean? As the places you mentioned, most of them don't seem to be democratic at all. Certainly, North America is very democratic which is correct. Singaporeans are not dis-interested in politics, but rather pressured and stressed to be dis-interested. Generally, the country is somewhat a dictatorship regime when it comes to politics, even though it promotes a democratic-styled economy, kinda like the current Russia minus the military power, of course.. If the Singapore government finds anybody that deviates from the perspective of the government, the individual or group will be in some trouble. And if the individual or group is not ethnic Chinese, they might get deported because the regime promotes racism and double-standard citizenship. Democracy? Yeah, right.. Nice joke!
Singapore's democracy is still better than Taiwan's 'democracy'. At least Chen Sui Bien can leave his mark in the world by being the most corrupt politician to be revealed in modern times.

And they say democracy is the last form of government...anarchy ftw!
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Old 2008-12-22, 21:58   Link #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
If the Singapore government finds anybody that deviates from the perspective of the government, the individual or group will be in some trouble. And if the individual or group is not ethnic Chinese, they might get deported because the regime promotes racism and double-standard citizenship. Democracy? Yeah, right.. Nice joke!


You're clearly well-read, but your understanding of world events is grossly deficient in many instances. Since when were any non-ethnic Chinese Singaporeans deported for disagreeing with the government here? And you might want to explain what you mean by "double-standard" citizenship. I have plenty to say about that, but I hardly think foreigners would understand the nuances involved.
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Old 2008-12-22, 22:19   Link #93
kyon.haruhi.suzumiya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post


You're clearly well-read, but your understanding of world events is grossly deficient in many instances. Since when were any non-ethnic Chinese Singaporeans deported for disagreeing with the government here? And you might want to explain what you mean by "double-standard" citizenship. I have plenty to say about that, but I hardly think foreigners would understand the nuances involved.
^^ Foreigners always get fed bad news of other nations. That's why they always think they're the best. Man, Singapore DID have "Taiwan-democracy" in the '50 - '60s. People here rather get on with their lives than have political stuff all about everyday. In fact, the people are SO disinterested, our spoilt-votes ratio is really high. Besides, between democracy and stability, we'd rather have the latter. Because stability brings you a good economy, democracy brings you many "Indian chiefs". Look at Thailand.

Singapore and Japan are rather similar in this, no one really cares about politics, we only see the economy. We ain't China.

Do you even know what the term "democracy" mean? As the places you mentioned, most of them don't seem to be democratic at all. Certainly, North America is very democratic which is correct. Singaporeans are not dis-interested in politics, but rather pressured and stressed to be dis-interested. [/QUOTE]

As Bill Clinton once said, it's the ECONOMY, stupid. Not the PAP. We want a good economy. Or we'll be either be dead or return to becoming the 14th state of Malaysia.

Quote:
Generally, the country is somewhat a dictatorship regime when it comes to politics, even though it promotes a democratic-styled economy, kinda like the current Russia minus the military power, of course..
Dictatorship? Come on. We have a opposition. But no one wants to join the opposition since politics is not inherently a Singaporean interest.
Quote:
If the Singapore government finds anybody that deviates from the perspective of the government, the individual or group will be in some trouble.
You know, that's the SDP you're seeing. Don't let that madman distract you. If you dissect his plans carefully, it brings Singapore [and ASEAN] to ruin. He says he's a doctorate... but maybe in the wrong field. 40 years ago, doctors can be politicians since Lee Kuan Yew wanted more doctors in his cabinet. Which proved wrong, he admits 40 years later.

Quote:
And if the individual or group is not ethnic Chinese, they might get deported because the regime promotes racism and double-standard citizenship. Democracy? Yeah, right.. Nice joke!
Wow. Deported? LOLOL. Where you got that from?
And racism? TinyRedLeaf, what's Racial Harmony Day for? I've not been in Singapore for a few years, you tell 'em.
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Old 2008-12-22, 23:13   Link #94
Mystique
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You guys may wanna continue that either in the 'asia get along' thread or in your own profile boards, borderline off topic?
(And potentially volatile reading kyon's reply)
Speaking of which, the news story post about the attacker getting tortured should file under here huh?
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Old 2008-12-22, 23:15   Link #95
kyon.haruhi.suzumiya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
You guys may wanna continue that either in the 'asia get along' thread or in your own profile boards, borderline off topic?
(And potentially volatile reading kyon's reply)
Speaking of which, the news story post about the attacker getting tortured should file under here huh?
I pity the workers at the shoe shop. They're overworked because of that fella. Man.
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Old 2008-12-23, 00:17   Link #96
Shadow Kira01
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Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Speaking of which, the news story post about the attacker getting tortured should file under here huh?
My bad, I forgot about this thread. I don't think I can move it from the other thread over here though. I will just leave it and post it in the right thread next time.
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Old 2008-12-23, 00:32   Link #97
theorys
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Osaka has done it again.




(btw, hi animesuki. I'm new)
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Old 2008-12-23, 10:17   Link #98
Kinny Riddle
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I know this is off-topic, but I couldn't resist. If you mods would prefer, you can move all these into a new or relevant thread.

Quote:
Because stability brings you a good economy, democracy brings you many "Indian chiefs". Look at Thailand.
Again, what about democracies like Australia, Switzerland, Sweden, etc? All stable regimes with democracy. Please, stop using these "immature" examples as excuses. Thailand and Philippines and Taiwan will eventually "grow out" of these childish tendencies, and there's also the occasional "hiccup" like 8 years of Dubya, but the strength of democracy is its ability to "Regenerate".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hari Michiru View Post
Singapore's democracy is still better than Taiwan's 'democracy'. At least Chen Sui Bien can leave his mark in the world by being the most corrupt politician to be revealed in modern times.

And they say democracy is the last form of government...anarchy ftw!
Please, don't make me laugh. Firstly, you should put quotation marks over Singapore's "democracy" instead of Taiwan's. And may I kindly point out that at least Taiwan has finally developed a system that allows scumbags like Chen to be eventually busted? Can Singapore say the same everytime even a single whisper of negativity is levelled at the Lee dynasty without risk of them abusing the "sue" card? Let alone China, who simply locks them up straight away?

Quote:
As Bill Clinton once said, it's the ECONOMY, stupid. Not the PAP. We want a good economy. Or we'll be either be dead or return to becoming the 14th state of Malaysia.
That's actually an insult to all Malaysians working hard to correct all the injustices they see caused by the government.

Two differences between Malaysia and Singapore: 1. Singapore practices meritocracy while Malaysia practices a sort of apartheid that favours the native-born rich Malays over the Chinese, Indians, and even poor Malays. 2. Singapore, being small, does a better job cleaning up corruption. This gives other authoritarian rulers around the world the illusion that they can do the same without being transparent.

Otherwise, both are actually similar in the authoritarian tendencies of the ruling party. If it wasn't for the "internets", the opposition in Malaysia would have been squeezed dry already.

Though because Singapore favours meritocracy, they have less imbeciles in government than Malaysia, and so are more efficient and less prone to pissing the electorate off.

Quote:
Singapore and Japan are rather similar in this, no one really cares about politics, we only see the economy. We ain't China.
Sooner or later, the Japanese electorate would also be pissed off, with the current gridlock between the ruling LDP and the opposition DPJ. Time will tell whether the DPJ will capitalize on this. (See my ad-hoc Level 3.0-3.5 model above) And Japan actually has a freer press.

Quote:
Dictatorship? Come on. We have a opposition. But no one wants to join the opposition since politics is not inherently a Singaporean interest.
Wrong. Nobody wants to join the opposition because the PAP keeps on suing them to oblivion. There's no point in competing in the Premier League when everyone knows the champions can always rely on the refs and FA to bail them out and boot the rest out of the league.
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Old 2008-12-23, 11:43   Link #99
Theowne
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Having a "Racial Harmony Day" does not mean there is no racism in a country. This seems to be a problem in Singapore...having a lot of meaningless gestures doesn't mean that you eliminate racism.... Also, what is the "Indian Chef" Thailand reference? Some kind of racist dig?
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Old 2008-12-23, 11:55   Link #100
kyon.haruhi.suzumiya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
Having a "Racial Harmony Day" does not mean there is no racism in a country. This seems to be a problem in Singapore...having a lot of meaningless gestures doesn't mean that you eliminate racism.... Also, what is the "Indian Chef" Thailand reference? Some kind of racist dig?
Indian chiefs, this saying means too many leaders and no followers.
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