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Old 2009-01-13, 11:51   Link #1041
Lolipopo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody View Post
Well, throw logic of the sentence structure aside and rely more on intuition or context.

Yes, the line did say that "lie" thing.
But adding "you knew that, didn't you" and all the untranslated parts of the poem and the canon story, it does hints that it wouldn't be a lie.

The "You knew that, didn't you?" indicates that Lelouch knew that his answer(teh Aishiteru) would have dragged her with him.

And then follows the part in which Kallen says that it was quite unlike Lelouch not to have taken advantage of that situation and manipulate her.

"It was uncharacteristically gentle/kind of you."
"Is that why you have told me to live on?" (I'm not sure about this sentence.)

"I didn't fall for your gentleness." <- this line was a denial.
Finally Kallen's poem seems full of her regrets for Lelouch to have choose to spare her because of his kindness instead to have drag her with him because of this "Aishiteru"

Lol even Kallen noticed Lelouch is OOC when it comes to her :P Isn't it nice ?

Oh and can you thank Kanalelou for me BTW? Her scan made my day, as well as yours and Lie works over it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune
If they really wanted to make Lelouch's feelings clear, however, they could just do so. After officially stating that C.C. was an "equal" and not a love interest to him, it wouldn't kill anyone (or so they'd think).
As I said in one of my previous post, that's the thing weird. They didn't have any problem to state CC wasnt a LI for Lelouch, but about Kallen they keep teasing us with thing like the strange wording of the "mutual kiss" line, with lelouch's little wish for Kallen (seriously, he didn't had any wish but his kind world to Nunally. And now he got a little wish for Kallen ? Why ? And why this wording ?), with Kallen's understanding of Lelouch's feelings she feel like romantic (Aishiteru is the summum of love isn't it ?)...

If Kallen isn't a LI it shouldn't be a problem to state it, like CC. Actually we got a "maybe"about kallen, nor a True yes (I say true cause this ammount of things already convince a bunch of people, but as long as the answer will not be "YES, NO, LOLWHUT ?" it will be discussed), neither a no.
The staff is kinda cruel with all those tease. But at least, every news about that makes a big effect (positive or negative) on people. I guess it's part of what makes romance in CG attractive for me.
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Old 2009-01-13, 11:51   Link #1042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody View Post
Gut, then what would serve as such kind of evidence?
*blinks*
You mean an evidence for Lelouch's feelings?

Well, as I already said... I'll only accept a completely clear confirmation from the staff that, without any doubt, has the approval of both creators ("oh, and by the way, Lelouch was madly in love with Kallen! Sorry we only mention that just yet...").
And if that happened, I really wouldn't be thrilled about it. It wouldn't change what I and many other people saw in the actual show, and it would be rather pointless, especially since those who ship Kalulu seem to be satisfied with what they got.

Can we talk about something else now?
Kalulu is like Clovis's awesomeness in that respect, after all...
To those who see it, it's completely obvious. Everyone else probably won't change their minds. xD
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Old 2009-01-13, 11:55   Link #1043
demon_god04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levy
Guys, why don't you just chill and share other infos/opinion instead? ^^

c'mon peeeeace!
What, suddenly asking for someone's reasons for their opinions is somehow offensive now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody
This line can be both perceived as Tsundere and bitter.

Lie's perception was "I'd rather you'd allow me to follow you to hell than being this kind to me."
I can agree with that, Kallen does not really seem the type to want someone dictate her choices when it comes to something like that.
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Old 2009-01-13, 11:56   Link #1044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody View Post
Gut, then what would serve as such kind of evidence?
Evidence that Lelouch loved Kallen romantically? Something a bit more concrete I guess, at least for me. Something from his own point of view, something that couldn't leave room for any other interpretation than "he loved her". And while I agree that it's possible to interpret some facts/info this way, it's just not how I see things and not the interpretations that make the most sense for me. Each to their own.

Now, seconding request for more info on the other poems. ;_;
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Old 2009-01-13, 11:58   Link #1045
Nogitsune
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post
As I said in one of my previous post, that's the thing weird. They didn't have any problem to state CC wasnt a LI for Lelouch, but about Kallen they keep teasing us with thing like the strange wording of the "mutual kiss" line, with lelouch's little wish for Kallen (seriously, he didn't had any wish but his kind world to Nunally. And now he got a little wish for Kallen ? Why ? And why this wording ?), with Kallen's understanding of Lelouch's feelings she feel like romantic (Aishiteru is the summum of love isn't it ?)...

If Kallen isn't a LI it shouldn't be a problem to state it, like CC. Actually we got a "maybe"about kallen, nor a True yes (I say true cause this ammount of things already convince a bunch of people, but as long as the answer will not be "YES, NO, LOLWHUT ?" it will be discussed), neither a no.
The staff is kinda cruel with all those tease. But at least, every news about that makes a big effect (positive or negative) on people. I guess it's part of what makes romance in CG attractive for me.
Yep, the staff is evil.
And I still believe they are all inofficial members here and laughing at us whenever we talk about things concerning Code Geass that make (no) sense to us. xD
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Old 2009-01-13, 12:02   Link #1046
dec4rhapsody
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
*blinks*
You mean an evidence for Lelouch's feelings?

Well, as I already said... I'll only accept a completely clear confirmation from the staff that, without any doubt, has the approval of both creators ("oh, and by the way, Lelouch was madly in love with Kallen! Sorry we only mention that just yet...").
And if that happened, I really wouldn't be thrilled about it. It wouldn't change what I and many other people saw in the actual show, and it would be rather pointless, especially since those who ship Kalulu seem to be satisfied with what they got.

Can we talk about something else now?
Kalulu is like Clovis's awesomeness in that respect, after all...
To those who see it, it's completely obvious. Everyone else probably won't change their minds. xD


Ich weiss nix mehr...
Ist Liebe so gefaerlich?
Wird Lelouch ein ganz anderen Charakter sein?


*running out of german vocabulary*
Forgive me for using this chance to brush up my German~
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Old 2009-01-13, 12:02   Link #1047
Levy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post
If Kallen isn't a LI it shouldn't be a problem to state it, like CC. Actually we got a "maybe"about kallen, nor a True yes (I say true cause this ammount of things already convince a bunch of people, but as long as the answer will not be "YES, NO, LOLWHUT ?" it will be discussed), neither a no. The staff is kinda cruel with all those tease. But at least, every news about that makes a big effect (positive or negative) on people. I guess it's part of what makes romance in CG attractive for me.
Loli, great respect for this. So we are not all trolls in denial in your book, to be not 100% sure about what Lelouch's real feeling are, right ? ^_-
Maybe one day we'll have a 100% clear answer, maybe no. Who knows?
Just carry on and enjoy the fun.

And yes, Nogi, let's all hug and talk about something else. Or maybe just the two of us as usual, but I would not mind random guests...
Also the staff members, that are definitely laughing at us.... that reminds me... ohi, thanks for the sinfull TohdohChiba hotel room, Secret Animator Loverman, I liked that a lot! ^_--!

EDIT: LOL, Dec, if I understand what you said right, the main problem with me and Nogitsune is that we quickly get bored with canon romance and tend to go with the non-romantic reading of events when there's room for ambiguity by default.
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Old 2009-01-13, 12:14   Link #1048
Nogitsune
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody View Post
Ich weiss nix mehr...
Ist Liebe so gefaerlich?
Wird Lelouch ein ganz anderen Charakter sein?


*running out of german vocabulary*
Forgive me for using this chance to brush up my German~
I'm tempted to answer in German. xD
Anyway... Lelouch wouldn't be an other character any more than if the staff suddenly declared that he had been madly in love with Suzaku the whole time. I'd think it's hilarious and eagerly await the fanfics that might result from such a statement, but I still wouldn't see it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Levy View Post
And yes, Nogi, let's all hug and talk about something else. Or maybe just the two of us as usual, but I would not mind random guests...
Also the staff members, that are definitely laughing at us....
*-*
I think the staff loves us so much that they hate us.
Errr... or something like that. xD
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Old 2009-01-13, 12:18   Link #1049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
I'm tempted to answer in German. xD
Anyway... Lelouch wouldn't be an other character any more than if the staff suddenly declared that he had been madly in love with Suzaku the whole time. I'd think it's hilarious and eagerly await the fanfics that might result from such a statement, but I still wouldn't see it.
Well, I think that I would have understand more than I could write...LOL

Hey, I don't think that it would be todally out-of-the-way if the staff declared he was in love with Suzaku.
Judging from a Yaoi-fangirl's perspective, wasn't that more prominent than any other spiteful het-ships?



BTW, whether the poem acts as an evidence or not, i still feel that this thread would be the most appropriate place to discuss this.
So people, plz don't feel annoyed if we do.
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Old 2009-01-13, 12:28   Link #1050
Levy
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But you are very welcome to discuss all the poems.

Even Suzaku's one, given the current discussion, LOL! XDDD
Not to mention Rollo's... XDD
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Old 2009-01-13, 12:31   Link #1051
Eliarine
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Yeeees, Suzaku's poem, do want.

This is the right place to discuss it, I just think things would go a lot more smoothly if we all agreed that we don't all share one single brain and thus can't all interpret things the same way.
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Old 2009-01-13, 12:35   Link #1052
Levy
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agreed, let's go on singing 'It's okay to be gay' altogether <3


that reminds me, I was off on holiday by that time, but when the non-official, but still from a staff member sexy pic of Kannon and Schneizel came out I was left.... speechless! XD
Nogi, did you liked that?
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Old 2009-01-13, 12:35   Link #1053
Nogitsune
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody View Post
Well, I think that I would have understand more than I could write...LOL
Good to know. xD

Quote:
Hey, I don't think that it would be todally out-of-the-way if the staff declared he was in love with Suzaku.
Judging from a Yaoi-fangirl's perspective, wasn't that more prominent than any other spiteful het-ships?
Well, LuluSuza is interesting... but I, personally, don't see it in the anime. xD
I support the yaoi fangirls, though. Fangirls have to stick together, after all... and yaoi is fun! xD

Quote:
BTW, whether the poem acts as an evidence or not, i still feel that this thread would be the most appropriate place to discuss this.
So people, plz don't feel annoyed if we do.
I'm perfectly fine with discussing the poems... as long as no one starts throwing things. xD


Quote:
Originally Posted by Levy View Post
But you are very welcome to discuss all the poems.

Even Suzaku's one, given the current discussion, LOL! XDDD
Not to mention Rollo's... XDD
rofl!
Then let's get started.... xDD


Edit:
Quote:
that reminds me, I was off on holiday by that time, but when the non-official, but still from a staff member sexy pic of Kannon and Schneizel came out I was left.... speechless! XD
Nogi, did you liked that?
O_O
Omg!
I didn't even know about that! xD Q_Q
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Old 2009-01-13, 12:37   Link #1054
Witacume
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
Yeeees, Suzaku's poem, do want.

This is the right place to discuss it, I just think things would go a lot more smoothly if we all agreed that we don't all share one single brain and thus can't all interpret things the same way.
haha.
Of course we don't share the same brain silly.
by you pointed that out is showing how much you are missing the point to why we raise questions.
I mean Kalulu can be as straight forward as humanly possible and you still might not agree because you perceive that way.
People may have opinions that does not mean their opinions can be totally and utterly wrong.
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Old 2009-01-13, 12:38   Link #1055
Levy
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@Nogitsune it's in the image thread, last days of december 2008, go browse for it ^_- <3
goodnight guys!

@Witacume, LOL. It's all the reply you deserve. LOL! XDDD
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Old 2009-01-13, 12:44   Link #1056
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Alright, time for serious post and rewinding some things, that have been cleared from the staff pretty much lately:: //i won't go on about Kallen's love feelings, this is like given.
Let's go to explore Lelouch's actions::

R2 19 -- His line to her "live on" //he could have just said nothing. Let the man die in peace huh? Why mess with Kallen's head? He could have wished this in silence.
conclusion:: Not being able to hold back his feelings for a second. -->debatable feelings

R2 22 -- The kiss. Lelouch is the kind of type that can "manipulate" his persons important to him, if that makes them go on, according to his point of view.
Again, he could have easily said Kallen "you were important unit, thanks for the help blah blah but now i am gonna rule the world" or another lie that would force her to go away as well. Besides, Lelouch does not care what his loved ones think of him, he just sets out to do something and he does.
What happened there? Hmm, silence. What does silence screams in these kind of occasions --> emotional pain. Of letting someone go in this occasion.
Given the material about mutual kiss/feelings, even for a moment, i guess this makes it no-brainer. Lelouch went trough a romantic phase there, you can't deny this.
Kallen realized what his silence meant in 25, it was his answer but at the time of 22, Kallen could not figure it out. She did it at the end, thus the song, thus the poem etc.
He did love her romantically in the span of the kiss-moment, and probably he would still do, if ZR was not supposed to kill him. And this is why Kallen has the absolute bittersweet ending, she got her "yes" answer but she was not with him at his last moments to let him know about this.
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Old 2009-01-13, 13:00   Link #1057
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by Levy View Post
@Nogitsune it's in the image thread, last days of december 2008, go browse for it ^_- <3
goodnight guys!
Can't find it. q.q
Oh well, I'll look for it again later...
Good night. *hugs*


Quote:
Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post
Alright, time for serious post and rewinding some things, that have been cleared from the staff pretty much lately:: //i won't go on about Kallen's love feelings, this is like given.
Let's go to explore Lelouch's actions::

R2 19 -- His line to her "live on" //he could have just said nothing. Let the man die in peace huh? Why mess with Kallen's head? He could have wished this in silence.
conclusion:: Not being able to hold back his feelings for a second. -->debatable feelings
Yes, Lelouch definitely cared enogh about Kallen to say that. But he did not necessarily love her romantically.
So... I agree, debatable.

Quote:
R2 22 -- The kiss. Lelouch is the kind of type that can "manipulate" his persons important to him, if that makes them go on, according to his point of view.
Again, he could have easily said Kallen "you were important unit, thanks for the help blah blah but now i am gonna rule the world" or another lie that would force her to go away as well. Besides, Lelouch does not care what his loved ones think of him, he just sets out to do something and he does.
What happened there? Hmm, silence. What does silence screams in these kind of occasions --> emotional pain. Of letting someone go in this occasion.
And Lelouch can only be in emotional pain about something like that if he is in love with the person who goes?
We know that he cared very much about Nunally, Suzaku, Kallen, C.C., Shirley and Euphie.
He never wanted to use his geass on Suzaku. He couldn't say "no" to Euphie. He had trouble watching Kallen walk away.
But that does not mean he is in love with them all.
So... again, debatable, and we're not getting anywhere.

Quote:
Given the material about mutual kiss/feelings, even for a moment, i guess this makes it no-brainer. Lelouch went trough a romantic phase there, you can't deny this.
Kallen realized what his silence meant in 25, it was his answer but at the time of 22, Kallen could not figure it out. She did it at the end, thus the song, thus the poem etc.
I don't disagree with that, even though I think Lelouch's feelings are as messed up as he himself is.
It's really hard to put your hand on them, confirmation or not.

Quote:
He did love her romantically in the span of the kiss-moment, and probably he would still do, if ZR was not supposed to kill him.
Then the same goes for Shirley and Euphie, if they had still been alive.
That doesn't change the fact that Lelouch never was the type who would be able to live "happily ever after" with them - simply because of the way his life went and the path he'd chosen.

Quote:
And this is why Kallen has the absolute bittersweet ending, she got her "yes" answer but she was not with him at his last moments to let him know about this.
Agreed.
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Old 2009-01-13, 13:12   Link #1058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post



And Lelouch can only be in emotional pain about something like that if he is in love with the person who goes?
We know that he cared very much about Nunally, Suzaku, Kallen, C.C., Shirley and Euphie.
He never wanted to use his geass on Suzaku. He couldn't say "no" to Euphie. He had trouble watching Kallen walk away.
But that does not mean he is in love with them all.
So... again, debatable, and we're not getting anywhere.
Yeah except the scene was full of cliches about romance-separation. Close-ups, not showing faces to say goodbyes blah blah
And it was mutual kiss, what else is there? I mean, srsly.

And please, i am not saying "happily ever after" with Kallen or anything, but there was romance when it came to Kalulu. All the stuff that have been released lately, bombing us with ++ about Kallen and Lelouch.

And if we want to go technically, then if staff wanted to be clear, then sure as hell would write something similar as the "equal" it had about CCxL. So they could avoid the shipping wars.
So until, something like this, IS written, then i think i am gonna believe that Kalulu IS the closest to canon when it comes to Lelouch's feelings.
People should try and find points to bring this down, not to support it. It is already supported by Sunrise.
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Old 2009-01-13, 13:21   Link #1059
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post
And if we want to go technically, then if staff wanted to be clear, then sure as hell would write something similar as the "equal" it had about CCxL. So they could avoid the shipping wars.
Just like they could just tell us that Lelouch was in love with Kallen if they wanted it to be clear.

Quote:
So until, something like this, IS written, then i think i am gonna believe that Kalulu IS the closest to canon when it comes to Lelouch's feelings.
And I will continue to believe that Lelouch didn't think any more about romance than I did when I watched Code Geass.

Quote:
People should try and find points to bring this down, not to support it. It is already supported by Sunrise.
I already said everything I have to say on this topic.
I didn't think about Kalulu for a moment when I watched the show, and I won't keep explaining my reasons for that. Lelouch's love life just doesn't interest me all that much, even though talking about it can be fun.
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Old 2009-01-13, 13:24   Link #1060
incorrupts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
J

And I will continue to believe that Lelouch didn't think any more about romance than I did when I watched Code Geass.
Yeah ok, compare your thoughts to Lelouch. That sounds right. Scratch what happened, scratch scenes, scratch official releases. Sounds right, why not?

Anyway, poem is gonna get posted soon so some people will just go in denial again.
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