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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Second Season - Episode 13 Rating
Perfect 10 108 66.26%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 28 17.18%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 13 7.98%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 4.91%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.23%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.61%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 1.84%
Voters: 163. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-12-28, 20:54   Link #241
Terrestrial Dream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutype View Post
anyone else want to jump on my argument? You guys are essentially arguing that your opinion is equal to mine even though you dont understand a single lyric or word. Now that is weak.

The entire song might even be jibberish and you would never even know it lol.
Well the thing is that you made your opinion into statement, so its expected people to argue against you. But the thing is that some people here doesn't know Japanese and yet they still enjoyed the or hated the music from before. Now I don't speak Japanese but I didn't particularly liked the op but I think it could be one of the songs that grows on you.
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Old 2008-12-28, 20:56   Link #242
LoweGear
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Originally Posted by nutype View Post
anyone else want to jump on my argument? You guys are essentially arguing that your opinion is equal to mine even though you dont understand a single lyric or word. Now that is weak.

The entire song might even be jibberish and you would never even know it lol.
Like we've been saying, we don't need to understand the lyrics to enjoy or critique it. We can enjoy music WITHOUT lyrics afterall, otherwise people would've long complained about classical orchestra and all instrumental pieces. Heck, there are actually songs out there that have pure gibberish as lyrics, yet people enjoy them anyway.

I don't even understand the lyrics for 90% of all the Japanese songs I listen to, and yet I still enjoy them, and I appreciate them even more once I do understand them. Besides, lyrics are only a single part of a song, and the most dispensable - you can sing "lalalala" after all and still sound good, and instrumentals prove that you don't need lyrics to have a song. Hence, we can have other criteria with which to 'judge' a song and base our own opinions of them.

Even if you are Japanese, just because you understand the language doesn't mean that your opinion regarding a song of your native tongue suddenly becomes the end-all, be-all of opinions, and that only yours is right, because ultimately your opinion is only your own, and not ours. If you don't enjoy the song at all then I'll leave you at that, but don't go around telling the rest of us that your opinion is the only one that matters, because some of us do not share your opinion.
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Old 2008-12-28, 20:58   Link #243
Dean_the_Young
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Originally Posted by nutype View Post
anyone else want to jump on my argument? You guys are essentially arguing that your opinion is equal to mine even though you dont understand a single lyric or word. Now that is weak.

The entire song might even be jibberish and you would never even know it lol.
What argument? You have yet to give a single point as to what is wrong with the song, and you know as well as we do that it's already going to be translated for English-speaking audiences. All you've done is claim you speak Japanese (something fundamentally unverifiable over the Internet, as there are always ways to cheat off-monitor) and ignore any and every counterpoint. You just claim it's inherent your view is better, without making any effort to explain why understanding the lyrics of a song is a requirement to having an opinion on it.

There are a large number of songs out there that are actual jibberish: Beyond the Bounds, the opening of a Zone of the Enders game, is one such song. But the phonetics are smooth and fit with the rhythm, and so it is easily one of my favorite songs. Emo music, heavy metal, and screech music are others.
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Old 2008-12-28, 21:03   Link #244
justavisitor
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So, the new OP of gundam 00 has changed from worst song of the entire gundam series to the worst lyrics in the entire gundam series....XD

As many ppl suggested, it doesn't need ppl who understand that particular language to admire the music from that particular region....I don't understand a thing about Japanese, but the current 00 OP is quite catchy, and the singer sings quite emotionally..and I like that song

Now, there are languages that what you say cannot put into words...or that particular singer has to tweak the sounds of some words in order to fit into the music...that will lower the rating of the song to some audiences, I don't know whether Japanese is that kind of language..but then again, music is purly subjective, and everyone's opinion is of course, equal in this regard

Now back to the main topic, this episode is excellent!!!!
Spoiler for spoiler:
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Old 2008-12-28, 21:05   Link #245
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
Now back to the main topic, this episode is excellent!!!!
Spoiler for spoiler:
Wait next episode... seems the 00 will still be with Ptolemy then. Guess the 00 gets stranded later that episode, or in the next.
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Old 2008-12-28, 21:28   Link #246
Terrestrial Dream
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Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Wait next episode... seems the 00 will still be with Ptolemy then. Guess the 00 gets stranded later that episode, or in the next.
If those are spoilers then I think you guys need to remove it.
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Old 2008-12-28, 21:31   Link #247
Shiryuu
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lol Pretty odd that Alle has to say "Trans Am" like a minute after activating it. I think all the viewers already know what it's supposed to be.

What I don't understand is, why not just blow up the rail going into MM? If they blow it up, the rail is gonna get destroyed either way.

The shield bits are pretty neat. But does he have attack bits too? In one scene it looks like part of the ship, and the next the gun is free floating with the shield ones.

Also, Hilling is an idiot. Just goes and ignores 00 even though he/she knows how dangerous it is.
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Old 2008-12-28, 21:33   Link #248
Funkatron
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Originally Posted by Shiryuu View Post
lol Pretty odd that Alle has to say "Trans Am" like a minute after activating it. I think all the viewers already know what it's supposed to be.

What I don't understand is, why not just blow up the rail going into MM? If they blow it up, the rail is gonna get destroyed either way.

The shield bits are pretty neat. But does he have attack bits too? In one scene it looks like part of the ship, and the next the gun is free floating with the shield ones.
The bits can defend and attack, they have guns on their bottom edges.

Fangs vs Bits: who would win?
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Old 2008-12-28, 21:34   Link #249
hedes
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Originally Posted by Shiryuu View Post

The shield bits are pretty neat. But does he have attack bits too? In one scene it looks like part of the ship, and the next the gun is free floating with the shield ones.
Yup... i watched the ep on youtube thrice.. it has attack capabilities as well
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Old 2008-12-28, 21:41   Link #250
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Originally Posted by Shiryuu View Post
What I don't understand is, why not just blow up the rail going into MM? If they blow it up, the rail is gonna get destroyed either way.

The shield bits are pretty neat. But does he have attack bits too? In one scene it looks like part of the ship, and the next the gun is free floating with the shield ones.
1. The "rail" is the Low orbital ring, which is part and parcel of the entire Orbital Ring system. The ring wasn't shown to be destroyed when the MM exploded (and given the shielding on the ring and how it held against attack I don't expect it to be).

Destroying the ring would compromise the integrity of the orbital ring system.

2. GN Shield Bits are confirmed to have onboard beam guns as well. So yes they're capable of both attack and defense.
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Old 2008-12-28, 21:42   Link #251
cajunman380
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lol Pretty odd that Alle has to say "Trans Am" like a minute after activating it. I think all the viewers already know what it's supposed to be.
I found that odd as well, I guess it just needed to be said for the few who didnt understand.......

Quote:
What I don't understand is, why not just blow up the rail going into MM? If they blow it up, the rail is gonna get destroyed either way.
I think they want to minimize damage to the orbital ring, not to mention there was no guarantee if A-laws had a counter for a scenario like that. I guess you could say they just wanted to make sure it was gone... period.

Quote:
Also, Hilling is an idiot. Just goes and ignores 00 even though he/she knows how dangerous it is.
I think she just had multiple priorities to deal with. She initially went after the oo but had to shift targets to the ptolomios after she saw it making a b-line tot he memento mori. at that point setsuna took advantage of the distraction and again when nena distracted her. I also think the fact that she didnt have first hand experience against 00 was a strike against her. BTW i wonder where Divine is?
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Old 2008-12-28, 21:43   Link #252
Shiryuu
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Originally Posted by Funkatron View Post
Fangs vs Bits: who would win?
Fangs can't go Trans Am, so bits win.
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Old 2008-12-28, 21:44   Link #253
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Originally Posted by Shiryuu View Post
Also, Hilling is an idiot. Just goes and ignores 00 even though he/she knows how dangerous it is.
Blame the Ahead that's holding Setsuna while Hilling was charging. If he can last for more than few seconds, Ptolemy's toasted.
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Old 2008-12-28, 21:49   Link #254
Shiryuu
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I also think the fact that she didnt have first hand experience against 00 was a strike against her.
Doesn't make her any less of an idiot though. You don't just ignore enemies capable of destroying you in seconds. She didn't even bother going out of 00 range (even if she doesn't know how fast 00R can go).

Now that I think about it, why doesn't any of the innovator suits have fang/bit tech on them? Especially if you're gonna have to charge per shot, you're gonna need the distraction.
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Old 2008-12-28, 21:49   Link #255
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BTW i wonder where Divine is?
My money is on getting ready for the 3 Innovators vs. 00-Raiser battle that I'm praying comes soon.
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Old 2008-12-28, 21:54   Link #256
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Originally Posted by Shiryuu View Post
Doesn't make her any less of an idiot though. You don't just ignore enemies capable of destroying you in seconds. She didn't even bother going out of 00 range (even if she doesn't know how fast 00R can go).

Now that I think about it, why doesn't any of the innovator suits have fang/bit tech on them? Especially if you're gonna have to charge per shot, you're gonna need the distraction.
First priority, and you have to gamble on the battlefield anyway. Should the Ahead did his job, people would go "Oohh, Hilling is smart because she did calculate enough time".

Onto the Fang question, unless you have a Haro, Fang doesn't that much useful. Remember Michael or Ali? When they use Fang, they have to control its, so no time to do different things.
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Old 2008-12-28, 22:17   Link #257
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Wait i come back from sleeping and then go to my sister's house. I now there are 12+ pages from just 20 hours.

I stated before that the final FIGHT will BE:

ALI vs. Lockul [FANS vs. Bit Shield]
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Old 2008-12-28, 22:32   Link #258
Double 120%
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Firstly, I'm going to say I haven't listened to the song, nor do I care to until I see it in the opening with new animation.

On one point, I'm going to defend nutype on. For a foreign song, A person who speaks the language is going to have a higher level of understanding and appreciation for it than a person who doesn't speak the language. They will intuitively understand the lyrics. Sure anyone can translate for another person, but certain things are always lost in translation. For example the whole "dub vs sub" thing, etc.

You may say everyone's opinion is equal, and while ideally it sounds nice, it isn't always true. I've read that people have called nutype's opinion as "subjective" and doesn't hold anymore weight than anyone else's opinion. On one level its true, since everyone has different tastes when it comes to beat, rhythm, tone, etc of a song. LoweGear even said nutype's example doesn't hold weight in this situation since its different because its an "observation of an objectively verifiable subject."

However, on another deeper level, it is a verifiable subject; language. Whether the lyrics pertain at all to the show, or if its just nonsense that was added just because it sounds nice or the words rhyme. You can't really argue with someone on lyrics of a foreign song, if you yourself don't know the language. And for a song, music and lyrics aren't 50/50 either. You can have a song without music, but you can't have a song without words. The music enhances the words and lyrics. If the lyrics are garbage to begin with, then your not really enhancing much.

But since you don't speak the language, I guess you wouldn't know if the lyrics were terrible would you? They could be using profanity and talking about murdering your family, but the rhythm and beat sounds nice. Ignorance is bliss in that case.


-Just my two cents.

Last edited by Double 120%; 2008-12-28 at 22:49.
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Old 2008-12-28, 22:38   Link #259
Dean_the_Young
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Originally Posted by Shiryuu View Post
Fangs can't go Trans Am, so bits win.
We don't know that, since no fangs have been put on a trans-am suit. Bits can't go trans-am on a non-transam system either, but Ali's Fangs were outpacing the 00 and Seravee with ease.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiryuu View Post
Doesn't make her any less of an idiot though. You don't just ignore enemies capable of destroying you in seconds. She didn't even bother going out of 00 range (even if she doesn't know how fast 00R can go).
Sure you do: it's called prioritizing. She has to take out the Ptolemy ASAP, and if she does the 00 doesn't matter. Moving away doesn't guarantee getting out of the 00's range (insane speed and all), and delays the shot to where the Ptolemy might get out of range. Relying on your ally to delay the enemy while you take the necessary shot is hardly idiotic.
Quote:
Now that I think about it, why doesn't any of the innovator suits have fang/bit tech on them? Especially if you're gonna have to charge per shot, you're gonna need the distraction.
Ali does, and he's clearly working for the Innovators.

If you mean why the Innovators themselves, it's still possible that one of them might. But not all suits use Fangs, even advanced customs such as Soma's, who as a quantum brainwave user would be ideal for them.
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Old 2008-12-28, 22:50   Link #260
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Originally Posted by Double 120% View Post
Firstly, I'm going to say I haven't listened to the song, nor do I care to until I see it in the opening with new animation.

On one point, I'm going to defend nutype on. For a foreign song, A person who speaks the language is going to have a higher level of understanding and appreciation for it than a person who doesn't speak the language. They will intuitively understand the lyrics. Sure anyone can translate for another person, but certain things are always lost in translation. For example the whole "dub vs sub" thing, etc.

You may say everyone's opinion is equal, and while ideally it sounds nice, it isn't always true. I've read that people have called nutype's opinion as "subjective" and doesn't hold anymore weight than anyone else's opinion. On one level its true, since everyone has different tastes when it comes to beat, rhythm, tone, etc of a song. LoweGear even said nutype's example doesn't hold weight in this situation since its different because its an "observation of an objectively verifiable subject."

However, on another deeper level, it is a verifiable subject; language. Whether the lyrics pertain at all to the show, or if its just nonsense that was added just because it sounds nice or the words rhyme. You can't really argue with someone on lyrics of a foreign song, if you yourself don't know the language. And for a song, music and lyrics aren't 50/50 either. You can have a song without music, but you can't have a song without words. The music enhances the words and lyrics. If the lyrics are garbage to begin with, then your not really enhancing much.

But since you don't speak the language, I guess you wouldn't know if the lyrics were terrible would you? They could be using profanity and talking about murdering your family, but the rhythm and beat sounds nice. Ignorance is bliss in that case.
What the lyrics say doesn't matter; music is a subjective art form, not an objective analysis of the moral quality of the lyrics. If you want offensive music, try listening to gangsta rap and listening to what some of them really say. But some people honestly enjoy it, and so we have rich people who sing of niggas in the hood, cappin the gangsta and screwing the hoes and all that jazz. Deciding whether a song is enjoyable or not, even in a foreign language, is subjective to the listener, not objective to what the song actually says (if it actually says anything coherent). People listen to and enjoy plenty of songs in their own language that, if they actually paid attention to, they might find morally disagreeable.

nutype didn't criticize the message of the lyrics or the melody or tone or any other part of the song. He or she said that the song sucked, and that no one could possibly argue with that declaration, and the only justification for that was that he speaks Japanese. If a single person who speaks Japanese were to stand up and disagree with him or her, then he or she would literally have no basis for his so-called argument.
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