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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Second Season - Episode 13 Rating
Perfect 10 108 66.26%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 28 17.18%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 13 7.98%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 4.91%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.23%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.61%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 1.84%
Voters: 163. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-01-02, 12:24   Link #501
kakakka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueKnight View Post
LOL, Mobile Suit Performance Wise - did he manage to trash Exia in end of S1, then the answer of yes. Exia got its body parts disassembled one by one. But did the GN-Flag also got trashed? Yes. Exia did the same vice-versa. Exia was severly exhausted, but the GN-Flag was not also combat proven either.

Piloting Skills Performance Wise - Did Graham manage to best Setsuna, that's what we're debating now. But in my humble opinion, considering all the handicapped Setsuna had that I explained prior above, then the answer is yes.
In that last battle of S1, I think they were pretty even.

Setsuna was exhausted, Exia exhausted (its performance is low)
Graham was fresh but beaten up by the G-Force. GN-Flag is combat capable but not proven.

And I was talking about "trash" as in "you're state is better than opponent" but yeah, Graham did hacked Exia one by one
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Old 2009-01-02, 13:08   Link #502
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I love how you guys keep bringing up Niel. He is DEAD!

First of all, he has terrible judgement, going into a battle with only one eye which wouldn't really help that much since Ali was able to dodge all his shots effortlessly in an Enact which was inferior in every way to a Throne. Even if Niel had use of both his eyes, he'd still have ended up space dust.

Second, he let revenge cloud his mind and went in and made the biggest mistake of his already very shortened life. He engaged Ali in close quarters, Ali's specialty.
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Old 2009-01-02, 13:17   Link #503
Dream_Traveller
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So the new definition of completely trashing a Gundam is hacking its arm off?

...Okay.

And why do you expect Setsuna to 'bitch' an A-LAWS ace with a lesser unit when, he's, oh, a Gundam Meister?

Last edited by Dream_Traveller; 2009-01-02 at 13:34.
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Old 2009-01-02, 14:44   Link #504
TrueKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Traveller
So the new definition of completely trashing a Gundam is hacking its arm off?
Quote:
means totally trash a Gundam. which in Graham's case back then, went over-G with his Union-Flag, steals the Throne's beam saber and went full throttle slicing Ein's arm, causing it losing it's some of its combat capability, screams mommy and retreats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Traveller
And why do you expect Setsuna to 'bitch' an A-LAWS ace with a lesser unit when, he's, oh, a Gundam Meister?
lol wut? Ali piloted a Gundam Throne once, so he was a Meister right? Not only that he previously piloted Enact, so he was a Meister who previously piloted an inferior suit and manage to match Exia, and beat three Meisters singlehandedly! And now he's a Meister for piloting a an Arche Gundam.

Oh, wait from the above, Ali is Meister now! But previously he piloted an inferior unit! A Meister can't do that!! because all they can pilot is a uber hax Gundam!! Waaah!
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Old 2009-01-02, 15:16   Link #505
LordStrike
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Originally Posted by TrueKnight View Post
lol wut? Ali piloted a Gundam Throne once, so he was a Meister right? Not only that he previously piloted Enact, so he was a Meister who previously piloted an inferior suit and manage to match Exia, and beat three Meisters singlehandedly! And now he's a Meister for piloting a an Arche Gundam.

Oh, wait from the above, Ali is Meister now! But previously he piloted an inferior unit! A Meister can't do that!! because all they can pilot is a uber hax Gundam!! Waaah!
actualli ali wasn't a meister for what i c a meister is the name given to the chosen pilot of a gundam Build by Celestial being and put in to CB plan.

is like me steeling an F1 car that doesn't make me an F1 racer or does it?

and about graham fighting a exhausted setsuna and exia let us not forget that the exia had use Trans-am prior to fighting graham
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Old 2009-01-02, 15:21   Link #506
Cherudim Arche
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Originally Posted by TrueKnight View Post
lol wut? Ali piloted a Gundam Throne once, so he was a Meister right? Not only that he previously piloted Enact, so he was a Meister who previously piloted an inferior suit and manage to match Exia, and beat three Meisters singlehandedly! And now he's a Meister for piloting a an Arche Gundam.

Oh, wait from the above, Ali is Meister now! But previously he piloted an inferior unit! A Meister can't do that!! because all they can pilot is a uber hax Gundam!! Waaah!
It's merely a title, but as with all title, there are qualifications for it. Just to pilot a gundam isn't one of those easy acceptance for being a "Meister". Ali would be considered the same way Sergei is, a long time veteran, but not actually a Meister. Although he has the feats and reputation to prove other wise, that is only making it seem like he has such a title as the one used by those of Meisters.
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Old 2009-01-02, 15:34   Link #507
RDF2050
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Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
I love how you guys keep bringing up Niel. He is DEAD!

First of all, he has terrible judgement, going into a battle with only one eye which wouldn't really help that much since Ali was able to dodge all his shots effortlessly in an Enact which was inferior in every way to a Throne. Even if Niel had use of both his eyes, he'd still have ended up space dust.

Second, he let revenge cloud his mind and went in and made the biggest mistake of his already very shortened life. He engaged Ali in close quarters, Ali's specialty.
you guys still forget he don't use trans-am to save his life remember
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Old 2009-01-02, 15:38   Link #508
TrueKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordStrike
is like me steeling an F1 car that doesn't make me an F1 racer or does it?
if you're a nashcar racer then suddenly drive an F1 against other F1 racers and won it means you're good right? or if a nashcar racer and manage to win against an F1 racer in a circuit with F1 advantages? That's even better.

Pararels of the 'Meister' who couldn't even pilot an inferior unit other than Gundams just to prove himself better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherudim Arche
It's merely a title, but as with all title, there are qualifications for it. Just to pilot a gundam isn't one of those easy acceptance for being a "Meister". Ali would be considered the same way Sergei is, a long time veteran, but not actually a Meister. Although he has the feats and reputation to prove other wise, that is only making it seem like he has such a title as the one used by those of Meisters.
A 'Meister' is infact literally, a pilot who is qualified to use a Gundam or had passed all the necessary requirements and qualifications, convened by Celestial Being in order to use a Gundam with GN Drive. Kinda like a certified pilot, in which such certificate grants a title issued by the relevant authority (in this case is CB).

Ali met the requirements and qualifications skill wise to pilot a Gundam and even better than all other candidates and/or participants, but because not properly authorized by CB he's a pre-'Meister' at best.
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Old 2009-01-02, 15:39   Link #509
LordStrike
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Originally Posted by RDFMASTER View Post
you guys still forget he don't use trans-am to save his life remember
that's true


even if neil is dead we still remember him as he was a cool meister and not to mention he did a pretty good job fighting ali hand to hand
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Old 2009-01-02, 16:10   Link #510
SeedFreedom
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Im not trying to say Ali is a bad pilot, hell he may be one of the best, but everyone jumps to assume that without thinking. Seriously he hasn't accomplished much that Graham didn't. Graham managed to hack off an arm as well. He got Setsuna's upper hand by fighting him when he was a kid so it basically like he could read him mind so it wasn't really fair.

I will also say graham isnt a surefire top pilot either. Losing to a drained exia in a GN-flag isnt best pilot of the show material.
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Old 2009-01-02, 16:59   Link #511
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Well, let's see, Ali has soundly thrashed every Meister he's faced, kicked Setsuna's ass in an inferior unit, twice, was the first to almost kill a Meister, was the first to properly kill a Meister, and he effortlessly beat two fourth-gen Gundams without even trying. Graham's hacked off Eins' arm and got beat by a drained Exia, which sort of pales in comparison to what Ali's accomplished. Oh, okay, he did beat down a weary Dynames and an equally weary Lockon, and he almost got himself killed by 00 were it not for the Twin Drive System overloading.

Oh, and TrueKnight, you both completely misunderstood what I said and fouled up- I never even said Ali was a Meister or implied it. I said that, because Setsuna is a Gundam Meister, and therefore, obviously, pilots a Gundam, there is no hope of seeing him 'bitch' an A-LAWS ace in a lesser unit because he does not pilot a Tieren, Enact, Flag or Realdo like all those poor Katharon sods do, and you fouled up in that...you restated my point. You reckon that, to get a Gundam out of the picture, all that's needed to be done is chopping off an arm.
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Old 2009-01-02, 17:27   Link #512
nutype
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
Well, let's see, Ali has soundly thrashed every Meister he's faced, kicked Setsuna's ass in an inferior unit, twice, was the first to almost kill a Meister, was the first to properly kill a Meister, and he effortlessly beat two fourth-gen Gundams without even trying. Graham's hacked off Eins' arm and got beat by a drained Exia, which sort of pales in comparison to what Ali's accomplished. Oh, okay, he did beat down a weary Dynames and an equally weary Lockon, and he almost got himself killed by 00 were it not for the Twin Drive System overloading.

Oh, and TrueKnight, you both completely misunderstood what I said and fouled up- I never even said Ali was a Meister or implied it. I said that, because Setsuna is a Gundam Meister, and therefore, obviously, pilots a Gundam, there is no hope of seeing him 'bitch' an A-LAWS ace in a lesser unit because he does not pilot a Tieren, Enact, Flag or Realdo like all those poor Katharon sods do, and you fouled up in that...you restated my point. You reckon that, to get a Gundam out of the picture, all that's needed to be done is chopping off an arm.
it's hard for other posters to look at the evidence the way you do when their judgement is clouded by their emotions and biases.
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Old 2009-01-02, 17:32   Link #513
LordStrike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
Well, let's see, Ali has soundly thrashed every Meister he's faced, kicked Setsuna's ass in an inferior unit, twice, was the first to almost kill a Meister, was the first to properly kill a Meister, and he effortlessly beat two fourth-gen Gundams without even trying. Graham's hacked off Eins' arm and got beat by a drained Exia, which sort of pales in comparison to what Ali's accomplished. Oh, okay, he did beat down a weary Dynames and an equally weary Lockon, and he almost got himself killed by 00 were it not for the Twin Drive System overloading.

Oh, and TrueKnight, you both completely misunderstood what I said and fouled up- I never even said Ali was a Meister or implied it. I said that, because Setsuna is a Gundam Meister, and therefore, obviously, pilots a Gundam, there is no hope of seeing him 'bitch' an A-LAWS ace in a lesser unit because he does not pilot a Tieren, Enact, Flag or Realdo like all those poor Katharon sods do, and you fouled up in that...you restated my point. You reckon that, to get a Gundam out of the picture, all that's needed to be done is chopping off an arm.
don't forget kill nenas bros stole a gundam and blow one up whit the stolen gundam XD
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Old 2009-01-02, 17:46   Link #514
RDF2050
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Originally Posted by LordStrike View Post
that's true


even if neil is dead we still remember him as he was a cool meister and not to mention he did a pretty good job fighting ali hand to hand
imagine him with two eyes and trans-am system
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Old 2009-01-02, 17:47   Link #515
Dream_Traveller
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And that, too, yes- Ali's killed three Meisters. Graham...well, true, nearly killed Setsuna, but he, well, didn't in the end.
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Old 2009-01-02, 17:49   Link #516
RDF2050
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
And that, too, yes- Ali's killed three Meisters. Graham...well, true, nearly killed Setsuna, but he, well, didn't in the end.
everyone still forget WHY SETSUNA is weak against Ali

HE WAS HIS TEACHER
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Old 2009-01-02, 17:50   Link #517
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Well, that, and Ali's a war veteran, and Setsuna relies on his machine more than whatever skills he has. Hinted at and shown by Ali, certainly made clear by some of Setsuna's actions, and outright stated by Alejandro.
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Old 2009-01-02, 18:03   Link #518
Cherudim Arche
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Originally Posted by TrueKnight View Post
if you're a nashcar racer then suddenly drive an F1 against other F1 racers and won it means you're good right? or if a nashcar racer and manage to win against an F1 racer in a circuit with F1 advantages? That's even better.

Pararels of the 'Meister' who couldn't even pilot an inferior unit other than Gundams just to prove himself better.



A 'Meister' is infact literally, a pilot who is qualified to use a Gundam or had passed all the necessary requirements and qualifications, convened by Celestial Being in order to use a Gundam with GN Drive. Kinda like a certified pilot, in which such certificate grants a title issued by the relevant authority (in this case is CB).

Ali met the requirements and qualifications skill wise to pilot a Gundam and even better than all other candidates and/or participants, but because not properly authorized by CB he's a pre-'Meister' at best.
What your doing is setting based off of scenarios, that Ali is better. He got in, but that doesn't mean that Ali qualified as one, it is cheating more of less, deceive others that you are one. How does he qualify for it? His ideology doesn't fit in with what Veda has, "I mean before the level 7 hack". Motives and willingness are just as important. There is another important thing mention in s1 episode 22 and "Ali epitomizes mankind thirst for war".The most important thing, that you blindsided is, whether others view him as a meister. To everybody he is just Ali Al-Sachez, doing what he has to do based on his client & boss system. If everyone has a GN drive, couldn't all those Aheads and GN-XIII be consider meisters as well. It doesn't matter what it looks, for you said gundam with GN drive. That in itself is broad for it does include gundam like performance and other aspects. There is no pre-meister, either you "truly" are one or "not". If so, I don't think you what it means to be a meister.
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Old 2009-01-02, 18:12   Link #519
SeedFreedom
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Originally Posted by LordStrike View Post
don't forget kill nenas bros stole a gundam and blow one up whit the stolen gundam XD
You cant count that. He was out of his gundam and had no clue he was an enemy. He beat Johann, thats true.
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Old 2009-01-02, 18:15   Link #520
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You cant count that. He was out of his gundam and had no clue he was an enemy. He beat Johann, thats true.
...And? He still killed him.
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