AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > General Anime

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-01-02, 04:09   Link #21
yezhanquan
Observer/Bookman wannabe
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonae View Post
Not as much in the first season as R2, but that's actually somewhat of a quote of his

"I will commit evil to destroy the greater evil"
Winston Churchill himself said something to that effect during World War II. He apparently doesn't mind deals with the devil if the UK could beat Hitler.

I personally agree with C.A.'s comments. Of course, there are always exceptions. But, "evil" in Japanese anime/manga is definitely made up of many shades.
__________________
yezhanquan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-02, 05:02   Link #22
wontaek
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Winston Churchill himself said something to that effect during World War II. He apparently doesn't mind deals with the devil if the UK could beat Hitler.

I personally agree with C.A.'s comments. Of course, there are always exceptions. But, "evil" in Japanese anime/manga is definitely made up of many shades.
No Culture gives single shade to the evil. There are tendencies that is followed more readily in one culture compared to the other. One of the difference already mentioned in how evil may be defeated. In many Korean stories, evil is often defeated by a commoner with aid from nameless traveler. In most Japanese stories, evil is often defeated by a known super powerful beings who undergoes the struggle usually alone.
__________________

Last edited by wontaek; 2009-01-02 at 10:28.
wontaek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-02, 09:54   Link #23
TinyRedLeaf
. . .
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 40
This is a rare thread, and I wonder how far it'll go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
In the west I believe, is said that the good truimphs over evil, mostly comes from teachings of Christianity.

In the east, good and evil must exist in a balance, all things have a Ying and Yang. For good to exist, there must be evil and so forth. You don't 'defeat' evil, you put the balance of good and evil back into place.
Ah, but then as wontaek pointed out, you're more likely to find characters in Chinese drama, especially in wuxia shows, uttering such trite phrases as: "邪不能胜正" (xie bu neng sheng zheng, "evil cannot triumph over good").

It's usually said with the conviction of a truism, as though its inevitability is never in doubt.

In Japan, on the other hand, you have anime such as Samurai X: Trust and Betrayal, where human depravity is assumed to be ever-present and undefeatable you cannot eliminate evil; you can seek only to ameliorate its effect. You either play along with the bad guys, or avoid the game entirely, choosing the life of an ascetic hermit instead.

Hence wontaek's observation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wontaek View Post
This...goes to core of what a society might call as evil and how it can be accepted. Of course, evil is a over generalization of many things, which requires case by case treatment, but there are some themes more common in Japanese Animation compared to nearby cultures, and this may be is due to many things, which include history and well known works of literature.
I don't remember the exact reference, but I do recall reading how there is a tendency in Japanese society to equate social harmony with the ultimate good. Meaning to say, they appear to have a cultural tendency to believe that might makes right that if every one in a community behaves a certain way, then it must be right for an individual to behave the same way.

There is that popular saying: The nail that sticks out gets hammered. To an outsider, it would therefore appear that an average Japanese isn't governed by a personal moral compass, unlike Westerners from a Judeo-Christian background.

If I were to speculate further, it's also worthwhile to note that Japanese culture is heavily influenced by its native Shinto religion and its particular intepretation of Buddhism, which differs significantly from the way its practised on the mainland. While the Japanese do differentiate between good and evil, they do not necessarily believe in "sin" the same way Westerners do.

This is where C.A.'s observation comes into play. There appears to be a greater recognition of a balance between good and evil in Japanese culture than in many Asian cultures, let alone compared to Western cultures. This is partly expressed by their apparent desire for social harmony above all else it often appears that the Japanese are willing to close one eye to evil, so long as it is kept out of public eye.

This is apparent not just in anime, but also in Japanese movies and TV series. There seems, to me, to be a disturbing lack of moral debate on issues that would otherwise trouble Westerners, such as sado-masochism, paedophilia and incest.

But then again, that could simply be because of different moral standards. Not understanding the nuances of their society, outsiders are probably not in a good position to judge what evil "means" to a Japanese. We should resist the temptation to apply our own ethical standards on other people's behaviour.

However, I will say that the moral ambiguity present in many anime is one of the main reasons why I enjoy the art form. I greatly enjoy the diverse range of complex issues raised in anime that would never see the light of day in a Hollywood studio. I find anime to depict social issues with more realism and honesty than most American films. Only European arthouse movies come close, in terms of challenging and pushing the boundaries of acceptable expression.

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2009-01-02 at 21:54. Reason: Corrected wrong Chinese character. Thanks YZQ!
TinyRedLeaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-02, 12:56   Link #24
Shadow Kira01
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: PMB Headquarters
Didn't thought I would find this topic in general anime, but..

The depiction of evil in anime? The general idea is that the antagonists who associates themselves with divinity and/or justice tends to be the true evil in most, but not all cases. People who fight for the will of "God" tend to be the bad guys, mainly because it is most likely a lame excuse for doing bad things and claiming it as "just". False justice depicted in most mecha animes can be described as people who bomb and commit airstrike, as well as destruction of civilian homes and also committing the war crime of mass murder claiming it as justice for the sake of the world or their country, once again... These are the true evils.

Examples of association with divinity includes Luminous Arc.
Examples of association with justice includes most of the Gundam series.
Shadow Kira01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-02, 13:19   Link #25
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Asian literature is often more about protagonists and antagonists having competing motivations or goals that bring them into direct conflict. In the supernatural stories, more often its about not having appeased the entity properly and suffering the consequences.

The "light and dark" depiction of "good and evil" is more Western, dating back to early belief systems like zoroasterianism (possibly the oldest monotheistic belief system).
You can still see it in terms of some people always attempting to paint political or social issues in "black and white" or binary terms ("you either with us or against us" nonsense).
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-02, 13:30   Link #26
BetoJR
D-d-don't look!!!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 37
This reminds me of that nice axiom: "There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't".
__________________
It's always a great time to immerse yourself in Deculture love!
All hail the Empress!!!

BetoJR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-02, 13:41   Link #27
wontaek
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Asian literature is often more about protagonists and antagonists having competing motivations or goals that bring them into direct conflict. In the supernatural stories, more often its about not having appeased the entity properly and suffering the consequences.

The "light and dark" depiction of "good and evil" is more Western, dating back to early belief systems like zoroasterianism (possibly the oldest monotheistic belief system).
You can still see it in terms of some people always attempting to paint political or social issues in "black and white" or binary terms ("you either with us or against us" nonsense).
Still in many occasions, we see antagonists bring harm to people around them. The how the motive and background behind these actions as well as evolution of the thoughts and behaviors of the antagonists should be within the scope of the discussion. Another way to phrase the question is how is the problem of conflict between 'need of the many' vs. 'need of a few' is handled, as different society surprisingly gives diverse answers to this problem. Case in point is the 'Sakura Quartet', where Engine's motive might be good for the yokai in the long run, but at cost of lives of many human and yokai. Is the safety of many in the far future more important than immediate safety of some few? This is another question where we get many interesting answers, and I do believe each culture might have different tendencies and perhaps some unique perspectives. I know these are hard questions, but we can talk about how Japanese animation series answers this, and compare it to answers given by other cultures or perhaps even different media in Japan.
__________________
wontaek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-02, 19:19   Link #28
TinyRedLeaf
. . .
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by wontaek View Post
Still in many occasions, we see antagonists bring harm to people around them. The how the motive and background behind these actions as well as evolution of the thoughts and behaviors of the antagonists should be within the scope of the discussion. Another way to phrase the question is how is the problem of conflict between 'need of the many' vs. 'need of a few' is handled, as different society surprisingly gives diverse answers to this problem... This is another question where we get many interesting answers, and I do believe each culture might have different tendencies and perhaps some unique perspectives. I know these are hard questions, but we can talk about how Japanese animation series answers this, and compare it to answers given by other cultures or perhaps even different media in Japan.
In that context, anime is decidedly influenced by Japanese Buddhism. There is the idea that the world is caught in a circle of corruption and that the only way to free yourself from it is to step out of the cycle. There is a very strong notion of a fate that binds people to one another, which in turn implies a responsibility to support your neighbour through times of crisis.

In Samurai X: Trust and Betrayal, for example, the protagonist Kenshin knew and understood that killing is sinful, but he convinced himself that he was assassinating people for the sake of the greater good. Remarkably, this gives his actions a touch of poignant nobility. He abandoned the killing in the end, but at tremendous personal cost, and spends the rest of his life atoning for his mistakes. Nevertheless, the guilt stays with him until very late in life. You could say that, in the end, he allowed his karma to catch up with him.

The anime Planetes explored how poverty and anger at social double standards force the antagonists of the show to become terrorists so as to push their agenda of reform. They are stopped in the end, not so much by the superior power of the "good" guys, but by the realisation that everyone alive is connected by fate or karma — no matter how far into space they travel, it is this human connection that keeps that anchored to home; that ensures they make it back to safe harbour.

Finally, there's Haibane Renmei, whose angel-life protagonists seem to point to Judeo-Christian inspiration, but is in fact more Buddhist than Western in its core message. The anime also takes a decidedly different view on the nature of "sin": it's not so much a condition that you're born with, as is usually the case in Judeo-Christian tradition, but rather a condition born from individual conceit. That is, you are trapped in sin only if you believe yourself to be. The two main characters in the show realise, in the end, that it's possible to escape karma, but only through the help of others. Not surprisingly, one of the main characters commented during the show that there are invisible bonds between the people of the village they lived in; they supported one another without need for asking.

Through these stories, I get the sense that the Japanese worldview is decidedly communal in nature. Their individual distinctions between right and wrong are derived from this worldview.
TinyRedLeaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-02, 20:35   Link #29
LeoXiao
提倡自我工業化
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 23
That's not really different from the western view of good and evil, it's just more comprehensive. At least that's the way I feel.
LeoXiao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-02, 21:00   Link #30
yezhanquan
Observer/Bookman wannabe
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 29
@TRL: I believe the "sheng" you're looking for is 胜。

I should say that I believe in multiple shades AND the notion that there should be balance.
__________________
yezhanquan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-02, 21:56   Link #31
TinyRedLeaf
. . .
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
That's not really different from the western view of good and evil, it's just more comprehensive. At least that's the way I feel.
Ah, but the difference comes from the way the Japanese approach "evil". They apparently accept and live with it, while Westerners typically see a need to crusade against it.
TinyRedLeaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-02, 22:25   Link #32
BetoJR
D-d-don't look!!!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 37
That's not really the sum total of western approach towards evil. Not even the Christian doctrine, if you go by the New Testament and disregard some sects ways of interpreting the words into their desired teachings.
__________________
It's always a great time to immerse yourself in Deculture love!
All hail the Empress!!!

BetoJR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-02, 22:41   Link #33
Mystique
Honyaku no Hime
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
Ohh fun fun!
Well before I get to quoting, I'll toss in my two pence on the 'depiction' of evil, before getting into the debate of the philosophical or moral basis of 'evil' itself as it seems this thread is heading off to.
I've kinda noticed (and I’m sure over the last 4 years, I’ve had this discussion at uni before) that Christianity tends to be one of the ways the Japanese like using as a tool within the horror genre or sometimes to depict the 'bad' guys. (Occults with the supernatural, usually to raise something pretty nasty).
A japanese person mentioned to me one time when I asked them about christian portrayal in anime, especially with the use of the crucifix, and they said:
'We're not sure why people worship or wear symbol of a dead man on a cross around their necks, but it sounds cool and mysterious, so we like using those symbols within horror stories.'
Certainly made me think twice (and laugh some, lol)
When I realised it was more for mere symbolic reasons of 'their' mental portrayal than anything else, couldn't really take offense to it.

I must admit, as 1: a Christian and 2: a westerner totally hooked to American notions of 'good vs evil'
(since its US dubbed cartoons we grew up on for most part)
The first year of heavily getting into anime back in autumn 2003 really pushed my thoughts on portrayal of evil to the limit, I had to rethink some.
Why was I frustrated with endings where there were no happy endings after 25 eps of battle; it seemed futile (chrono crusade is 1 example)
Not to mention 'a nun with a gun', excuse me?' lol
The latest example of the portrayal of 'evil', along with religious/supernatural tones would be the hellsing ova series. Positively chilling, morally challenging and mentally engaging (outside the blood, gore and guts, lol)
It's very hard to cut a line of 'bad vs good' - more than often, anime likes to simply portray human nature for what it is, a mix of good and bad, where if a definition has to be made, it's based on the actions and choices of the individual at the time in relation to the situation, but even then, that's often subject to interpretation.
Naruto is another whole wide web of grey areas on the 'good vs evil' definition. It's not one of the most indepth storylines, but still it's very hard to do (believe me I’ve tried, lol).
The bad suffer, yet live. Those who die, we find out their background where most times it's just them making doing the best to survive, but because their ideals conflict with konoha, they have to be killed for it.
There are bad characters in there who'd I’ve loved to have seen dead ages ago, however because of their existence, some good has sprung forth which ironically saves the entire village in a present moment.
And so on, the Japanese I've noticed enjoy bringing the past to the present to 'justify' their bad guys most times, perhaps almost to the point where we begin to sympathise.
(FMA is another on living with and trying to rectify one's 'sins'.)
Never so black and white, perhaps that's what makes anime so refreshing for westerners when they first encounter it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
This is a rare thread, and I wonder how far it'll go.

In Japan, on the other hand, you have anime such as Samurai X: Trust and Betrayal, where human depravity is assumed to be ever-present and undefeatable — you cannot eliminate evil; you can seek only to ameliorate its effect. You either play along with the bad guys, or avoid the game entirely, choosing the life of an ascetic hermit instead.

If I were to speculate further, it's also worthwhile to note that Japanese culture is heavily influenced by its native Shinto religion and its particular intepretation of Buddhism, which differs significantly from the way its practised on the mainland. While the Japanese do differentiate between good and evil, they do not necessarily believe in "sin" the same way Westerners do.
No, but they do believe in 'shame' which somehow served to be a greater 'sin' than most, enough to negate your right to live, I believe.
Quote:
This is where C.A.'s observation comes into play. There appears to be a greater recognition of a balance between good and evil in Japanese culture than in many Asian cultures, let alone compared to Western cultures. This is partly expressed by their apparent desire for social harmony above all else — it often appears that the Japanese are willing to close one eye to evil, so long as it is kept out of public eye.
Jigoku shoujo, is a very very good anime to get a 101 on Japanese perception of 'evil' at times and how different characters in different paradoxes deal or justify sending someone to hell, an example being the part I underlined above.
Some reasons, are trivial as hell, some to save their life (but damn themselves), some who do so out of pure evilness perhaps?
The stories are endless, but it definitely portrays the negative aspects of human nature very well, it's not a series I think would have much place in the west, nor understood too well.
Quote:
But then again, that could simply be because of different moral standards. Not understanding the nuances of their society, outsiders are probably not in a good position to judge what evil "means" to a Japanese. We should resist the temptation to apply our own ethical standards on other people's behaviour.
That can be applied to anything, TRL, but that doesn't stop us discussing nor hazarding a guess of what we think they may perceive 'evil' through their art form which so many of us watch to try to understand beyond ideologies outside of our own norms. Whether we're 'right' or not, the variety of interpretation is interesting as it is.
Quote:
However, I will say that the moral ambiguity present in many anime is one of the main reasons why I enjoy the art form. I greatly enjoy the diverse range of complex issues raised in anime that would never see the light of day in a Hollywood studio. I find anime to depict social issues with more realism and honesty than most American films. Only European arthouse movies come close, in terms of challenging and pushing the boundaries of acceptable expression.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Asian literature is often more about protagonists and antagonists having competing motivations or goals that bring them into direct conflict. In the supernatural stories, more often its about not having appeased the entity properly and suffering the consequences.

The "light and dark" depiction of "good and evil" is more Western, dating back to early belief systems like zoroasterianism (possibly the oldest monotheistic belief system).
You can still see it in terms of some people always attempting to paint political or social issues in "black and white" or binary terms ("you either with us or against us" nonsense).
Red or blue perhaps, Vexx?

But agreed with the last couple of point I’ve quoted.
With a few examples which I have mentioned before anyways, anime really is an art form I’m glad to be engrossed in, it's kinda a refresher from the candyfloss of Hollywood movies and simple tales with the entire 'either/or' aspect. While each genre has its place and sometimes it is gratifying to see a happy ending or 'justice' being served, I look back at US stories now and find it all too limiting.
Perhaps that's just my cynicism in my older years creeping though
__________________

Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere. - Van Wilder
"If you ain't laughin', you ain't livin'." - Carlos Mencia

Last edited by Mystique; 2009-01-02 at 22:52.
Mystique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-04, 18:46   Link #34
wontaek
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Ohh fun fun!
Well before I get to quoting, I'll toss in my two pence on the 'depiction' of evil, before getting into the debate of the philosophical or moral basis of 'evil' itself as it seems this thread is heading off to.
I've kinda noticed (and I’m sure over the last 4 years, I’ve had this discussion at uni before) that Christianity tends to be one of the ways the Japanese like using as a tool within the horror genre or sometimes to depict the 'bad' guys. (Occults with the supernatural, usually to raise something pretty nasty).
A japanese person mentioned to me one time when I asked them about christian portrayal in anime, especially with the use of the crucifix, and they said:
'We're not sure why people worship or wear symbol of a dead man on a cross around their necks, but it sounds cool and mysterious, so we like using those symbols within horror stories.'
Certainly made me think twice (and laugh some, lol)
When I realised it was more for mere symbolic reasons of 'their' mental portrayal than anything else, couldn't really take offense to it.

I must admit, as 1: a Christian and 2: a westerner totally hooked to American notions of 'good vs evil'
(since its US dubbed cartoons we grew up on for most part)
The first year of heavily getting into anime back in autumn 2003 really pushed my thoughts on portrayal of evil to the limit, I had to rethink some.
Why was I frustrated with endings where there were no happy endings after 25 eps of battle; it seemed futile (chrono crusade is 1 example)
Not to mention 'a nun with a gun', excuse me?' lol
The latest example of the portrayal of 'evil', along with religious/supernatural tones would be the hellsing ova series. Positively chilling, morally challenging and mentally engaging (outside the blood, gore and guts, lol)
It's very hard to cut a line of 'bad vs good' - more than often, anime likes to simply portray human nature for what it is, a mix of good and bad, where if a definition has to be made, it's based on the actions and choices of the individual at the time in relation to the situation, but even then, that's often subject to interpretation.
Naruto is another whole wide web of grey areas on the 'good vs evil' definition. It's not one of the most indepth storylines, but still it's very hard to do (believe me I’ve tried, lol).
The bad suffer, yet live. Those who die, we find out their background where most times it's just them making doing the best to survive, but because their ideals conflict with konoha, they have to be killed for it.
There are bad characters in there who'd I’ve loved to have seen dead ages ago, however because of their existence, some good has sprung forth which ironically saves the entire village in a present moment.
And so on, the Japanese I've noticed enjoy bringing the past to the present to 'justify' their bad guys most times, perhaps almost to the point where we begin to sympathise.
(FMA is another on living with and trying to rectify one's 'sins'.)
Never so black and white, perhaps that's what makes anime so refreshing for westerners when they first encounter it.

No, but they do believe in 'shame' which somehow served to be a greater 'sin' than most, enough to negate your right to live, I believe.

Jigoku shoujo, is a very very good anime to get a 101 on Japanese perception of 'evil' at times and how different characters in different paradoxes deal or justify sending someone to hell, an example being the part I underlined above.
Some reasons, are trivial as hell, some to save their life (but damn themselves), some who do so out of pure evilness perhaps?
The stories are endless, but it definitely portrays the negative aspects of human nature very well, it's not a series I think would have much place in the west, nor understood too well.

That can be applied to anything, TRL, but that doesn't stop us discussing nor hazarding a guess of what we think they may perceive 'evil' through their art form which so many of us watch to try to understand beyond ideologies outside of our own norms. Whether we're 'right' or not, the variety of interpretation is interesting as it is.

Red or blue perhaps, Vexx?

But agreed with the last couple of point I’ve quoted.
With a few examples which I have mentioned before anyways, anime really is an art form I’m glad to be engrossed in, it's kinda a refresher from the candyfloss of Hollywood movies and simple tales with the entire 'either/or' aspect. While each genre has its place and sometimes it is gratifying to see a happy ending or 'justice' being served, I look back at US stories now and find it all too limiting.
Perhaps that's just my cynicism in my older years creeping though
I agree with most of things you said. What also interest me is how the Japanese history and literature of last 1,000 ( please, not last 100 years but 1,000 years as there should be things strongly ingrained in typical Japanese psyche ) years might have influenced Japanese animation. Are some antagonist vs society interactions an extension of what has been going on, or is it a response to it as an attempt to be different from what has been established? I do not know enough about Japan to answer this question in depth. It is possible that Japanese anime's tolerance to graphical depiction of violence and potentially erotic situation may be a result of prolonged feudal period during which the sword was a force greater than any other things, even including money, religion, and writing: Well maybe not money, religion, and politics combined, but still the greatest if taken separately. I don't think Japanese had time when religion ( Medieval Europe ), money ( almost modern Europe or China ), Politics ( Korea- Chosun dynasty and China during similar time ), or philosophy ( Communist countries and some periods in China ) was the supreme force, at least not until 1945.
__________________
wontaek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-12, 09:46   Link #35
kingsky123
Higurashi fan.
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
jigoku shojo is so very HEAVILY influenced by buddhism concepts of stuff... their notions of right and wrong, revenge and all that doesnt really matter since what you are trying to do is break free of the cycle

btw, western comics have lots of moral ambuguity, and lots of stuff on these. just look at the marvel/dc comics and all their strange er... worlds/dimensions

(i remember reading one where batman's gotham city got destroyed by an earthquake or something, and there was total anarchy and the comic showed the reactions of people living in a world without law and order)
kingsky123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-12, 13:29   Link #36
Amray
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: England
Age: 25
I like the way that Japanese present and show evil, personally, I find it interesting. Japan, with regards to anime, make scenes that no other animators elsewhere would ever produce, which is why I find it interesting. What is more is that the way that it is shown suits my preferences more which, alas, is the reason that I became a fan of anime. The very reason that I adore anime is because of how different it is from any other productions due to Japanese culture. As we know all countries around the world have different cultures and I think that theirs has an amazing outcome. This is obviously the case as anime is a world-wide pleasure, one in which is well-known and recognised practically everywhere, and I think that it has something to do with their way of showing things in their own culture. They just happen to present, what I would easily define as, evil in the most amazing way.

This is a personal opinion though. If this is not the type of answer that you were expecting then I apologise.
Amray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-13, 19:02   Link #37
kk2extreme
Your wife is hot...
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: At your house fixing A/C
After watching speed grapher, the real evil is capitalism
kk2extreme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-13, 20:44   Link #38
aohige
( ಠ_ಠ)
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
Here's a shining example of how brutally charismatically evil a villain should be.


There are far too many "omg you have to sympathise with me or I'll go emo" pansy-ass villains around these days.
A depiction of evil like the Major sends a chill up your spine, yet at the same time give you a very big GRIN on your face.
The kind of evil that sends demons for hell crying back to momma in fear. MOAR EVIL PLZ.
__________________
aohige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-14, 04:21   Link #39
yezhanquan
Observer/Bookman wannabe
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 29
Ah, the Major. Then again, Tobita-san did voice Akabane in GetBackers, and the manga version of him is magnificent. Full-stop.
__________________
yezhanquan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-14, 04:57   Link #40
Mystique
Honyaku no Hime
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kk2extreme View Post
After watching speed grapher, the real evil is capitalism
I just finished marathoning that after a 3 year gap (basically the time it originally aired)
Man, i forgot how sick and twisted and depraved it was, loved it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Here's a shining example of how brutally charismatically evil a villain should be.


There are far too many "omg you have to sympathise with me or I'll go emo" pansy-ass villains around these days.
A depiction of evil like the Major sends a chill up your spine, yet at the same time give you a very big GRIN on your face.
The kind of evil that sends demons for hell crying back to momma in fear. MOAR EVIL PLZ.
Thing is, I kinda like the 'sympathise with bad guy' aspect, that's another side of anime that was new to me, the fact that choices by the good guys years ago screw someone over for them to become bitter and twisted only to have their plans thwarted because they're now the 'bad guys'
Never so black and white, that's just simply human nature.

While there is sympathy sometimes, some bad guys are just that, bad.
Most typically, just get corrupted by power (men...)
That dude in hellsing.... yeah i'd agree with the sending chills down your spine, I got the same with speed grapher. (cringed a hell of a lot of times too.)
Hellsing kinda strips away morals, social laws, legal laws and just depicts evil, chaos and carnage in its rawest, purest, undiluted form.
(Using evil to fight evil?)
The human psyche can be a scary one
Speed grapher does the same but rather depicts 'lust' and 'desire' in its rawest, pure form, no matter the object as we see from the Euphorias. All humans desire something, sometimes desires that seem 'dark', but again with human morals, legal laws, etc we keep ourselves in check.

I miss a dark anime such as speed grapher to be honest, wouldn't mind seeing another series just as depraved (and yet so true with capitalism and 'money being the root of most/all evil' angle that the series took.)

In that sense the evil lot are simply regular peeps like you and me.
__________________

Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere. - Van Wilder
"If you ain't laughin', you ain't livin'." - Carlos Mencia
Mystique is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.