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Old 2009-04-19, 15:57   Link #441
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Akira is a bigger problem for me than Saki at this point. Nothing he says or does is remotely believable, even given his bizarre circumstances. His smarminess is grating. And his cheshire grin is a constant distraction. Who knows, maybe she fell for him because he's ... like a horse.
You're just not the audience his charms are aimed for.
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Old 2009-04-19, 15:59   Link #442
orion
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
well.. I've not given up on the series yet... mostly because I remember how episode 5 in a certain SHnY smacked me on the head with Yuki's revelations. And yeah, the main pair chemistry is trying to emulate the classical 50s rom-com - just don't know if they've succeeded to my taste yet or not. I've only seen ep 1 and a bit of ep 2 so its still on the "maybe" list.


It wouldn't matter if they succeeded in emulating 50's romantic comedies or not as the current population most likely hasn't watched any. The show just has to connect with the current population who has access to recent shoujo titles. They are doing a good job in that aspect.
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Old 2009-04-19, 16:03   Link #443
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
well.. I've not given up on the series yet... mostly because I remember how episode 5 in a certain SHnY smacked me on the head with Yuki's revelations. And yeah, the main pair chemistry is trying to emulate the classical 50s rom-com - just don't know if they've succeeded to my taste yet or not. I've only seen ep 1 and a bit of ep 2 so its still on the "maybe" list.
I'm not looking for 50's romantic comedy (30's-40's is actually better quality) but I'm in the same boat - I haven't given up. There's enough on the screen now and so much potential in the pedigree that I'm going to give it at least a few more eps, and I'd be surprised if I dropped it. This season is fairly deep but there's not much at the top end in terms of greatness.
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Old 2009-04-19, 16:06   Link #444
orion
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I'm not looking for 50's romantic comedy (30's-40's is actually better quality) but I'm in the same boat - I haven't given up. There's enough on the screen now and so much potential in the pedigree that I'm going to give it at least a few more eps, and I'd be surprised if I dropped it. This season is fairly deep but there's not much at the top end in terms of greatness.
Oh there's plenty of top titles. You're not the target audience of those titles that's all. This is one of the better seasons for new titles in a long time imo.
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Old 2009-04-19, 16:26   Link #445
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And what is the EOTE written on the apple that flashes up on the TV screens? Eurasian Organization of Terrorist Ecdysiasts?
This a REAL SPOILER which gives away a future plot flow of the series. Seriously, DON'T read it if you'd rather watch it unfold.
Spoiler for EXTREME SPOILER for EOTE:
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Old 2009-04-19, 16:34   Link #446
Vexx
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
It wouldn't matter if they succeeded in emulating 50's romantic comedies or not as the current population most likely hasn't watched any. The show just has to connect with the current population who has access to recent shoujo titles. They are doing a good job in that aspect.
I think you're missing our point. It doesn't *matter* what the target audience has been exposed to -- it is simply the case that the plot lifts a number of elements from rom-coms popular in the mid-20th century that were popular. REC did the same thing pretty blatantly (the eyecatches were a giveaway) and the more successful rom-coms are clearly descended from that era (check out Jerry Lewis's 1961 film: Ladies Man and think - Love Hina).

The current decade of anime rom-coms that are successful with today's audience pay a lot of homage to those earlier films whether the "youngsters" know it or not.
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Old 2009-04-19, 16:38   Link #447
Kazu-kun
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I think you're missing our point. It doesn't *matter* what the target audience has been exposed to -- it is simply the case that the plot lifts a number of elements from rom-coms popular in the mid-20th century that were popular.
The current decade of anime rom-coms that are successful with today's audience pay a lot of homage to those earlier films whether the "youngsters" know it or not.
But I have to agree with Orion that it doesn't matter if they succeeded in emulating it either.
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Old 2009-04-19, 16:53   Link #448
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Right, I don't dispute that .. just that he seemed to be challenging something not pertinent to our comments. For those who look at film over the decades, certain elements seem to provide more success and popularity regardless of whether the audience is aware of the iconic nature of the elements or not.
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Old 2009-04-19, 17:24   Link #449
orion
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But it may not be any intention to pay hommage. It just seems that the link to romantic comedies of the 50's is an excuse to justify watching this. It's like the title is being overanalyzed imo.

Even in the US, there aren't many who care about those comedies nowadays.
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Old 2009-04-19, 17:27   Link #450
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Originally Posted by teelotes View Post
This is not only limited to anime, or Hollywood; heck, this is just the way life is, isn't it? All the pretence and imagery blasted in a loud fashion, we all hate that.

Regarding the purpose of plastering symbolism all over the place, that's where the difference lies. I don't think the anime you mention do that to make them look "intellectual". Besides, Eden is nowhere near Eva and Paranoia in that regard.
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In general, I think a lot of anime starting as far back as Evangelion employ a lot of overblown pseudo-philosophy and religious symbolism to make them appear "intellectual." Despite my respect for Kon, I'd put all three of these shows, and Eden, in that category.
Okay, for starters, I've just never seen Paranoia Agent, so I wouldn't be able to talk about that. But I do think Evangelion has plenty of depth, especially from the angle of psychology. While, yes, they admitted that the religious symbolism was just for flavor, flavor itself can add depth to a show. I believe it was a commentary on how sad man is. I don't mean to insult anyone, but my honest reaction when people say that something is falsifying it's intellectual nature is to think that means that person just hasn't examined it closely enough.

I apologize for getting off track, but if I could use another anime as an example, I think that'd help my point (as I looked into Eva ages and ages ago and hardly remember anything about it). I think Ef~ A Tale of Memories and A Tale of Melodies are excellent examples of shows that can just be written off as pseudo-intellectual, but that really contain a lot of depth. One of the main criticisms of Ef was that it was too random with it's camera angles and what not - and then I looked into it, and found that it was meant to be reminiscent of a style of painting. They flashed random colored images on the screen, and they turned out to be photos from a town in Germany. They showed characters in random colors, and then I was able to prove that the colors represented certain emotions and attributes. There's a lot more I can go into, but the show actually involved some pretty deep ideas that took a lot of analysis to get down to, but I felt that a lot of people wrote it off as just being random, or as trying too hard while not really meaning anything.

I like Higashi no Eden for many of the same reasons that I liked Eva and Ef - and this has the added bonus of being a good romance when I haven't watched a romance anime in about half a season (feels like longer). I like picking apart this show and trying to find out all the meanings behind it. So questions of realism don't bother me in the slightest when it comes to the shows I watch - because I expect the events to have meaning behind them when they don't match up with what you'd realistically expect. I mean, yes, realistically, Saki and Akira woulda gotten locked up for their performance outside the White House in episode 1, but I believe there was meaning to the scene with them standing alone there (partially with Akira being clothed after discovering he's naked, a'la Adam), and so I forgive it. I watch the news enough (I make a habit of turning on the news while working on Gundam kits), and I get enough reality every day. If I wanted more, I'd keep watching the news. Instead, I want somethin' that illustrates ideas and conveys messages to the audience through subtle ways, much like the puzzle idea that has been mentioned in this thread, but in a different way. Rather than a puzzle in terms of just putting together the plot and tying up the loose ends, though I do enjoy those, I also want it to be a puzzle in terms of finding out what everything represents or mocks, and why it's there in relation to what I've already found out. I am not what one would call a "passive" viewer.

I mean, I get that that's not what everyone wants, and that a lotta people wanna just watch stuff after a long day and not think about 'em - but I personally really don't like doing that myself. So, I dunno, just to wrap this up, I don't think anyone makes a show with the idea of just making it "look" intellectual to try and hook people, because the problem then becomes that the people who look into it will be thoroughly disappointed. I think everyone who goes to the trouble of putting symbolism, or imagery or any sort of allusion into a show or movie does it with the intent of it having meaning, and not just stuck-up pretense. Rather, and I'm sorry, but this how I perceive it, I feel that those who just think of it as pretense are the people who just don't want to take the time to try understanding what went into the creation process.

On the other hand, admittedly, there are then people who try and find meaning where there isn't any, and those people can, I think, be classified as "pretentious." I may be one of them.
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Old 2009-04-19, 17:31   Link #451
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Paranoia Agent is uneven, but a great mind-blower and at it's best very powerful stuff. Check it out.

I just don't get where anyone could be watching EotE and find it romantic. I mean seriously - I can't imagine such a scenario. But human perception is a wonderfully variable thing.
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Old 2009-04-19, 17:42   Link #452
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90% of homages in anime are just homages.

I like speculating about complex stories but it think we really don't have enough informations yet about this Anime.

I'm not going to speculate about genesis references just because the title has "Eden" in it. Hell there's a manga that's called "Eden" and you wouldn't lose anything by not knowing a single thing about the bible.

This looks like a promising series right now, but as of now it could turn being anything. So far it's interesting, i'm really curious to know what's behind all of those unexplainable events, i hope it won't let me down ^^;
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Old 2009-04-19, 17:43   Link #453
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Paranoia Agent is uneven, but a great mind-blower and at it's best very powerful stuff. Check it out.

I just don't get where anyone could be watching EotE and find it romantic. I mean seriously - I can't imagine such a scenario. But human perception is a wonderfully variable thing.
Well, there isn't really any romance so far in the series, just chemistry & possible romantic-*hints* between the characters.

But yeah, everyone has a different perception on romance and love
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Old 2009-04-19, 17:48   Link #454
SuperKnuckles
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Eh. To me, Paranoia Agent was even more of a distorted show than this one is. Amazing mindfreak factor, but like with the director of that show, the core story was a bit out there. At least this one tries to ground it in more steady flow of storytelling, even if the backstory and romance are just a total jumble at the moment. And honestly, I don't think they can really patch up the logic of that romance. Sure, you can say romance isn't logical etc, but I think that's just lazy writing on the animation studio's part.
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Old 2009-04-19, 17:53   Link #455
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Well, this is an interesting topic for a beautiful sunny day with a cigar in one hand and a Lagavulin in the other - what people find romantic. And I'm curious how my perception of this series is so far off the mainstream. What anime do I find romantic? True Tears and BGI for starters - but maybe that's cheating because romance is the raison d'etre of those series. Petopeto-san - innocent romance at it's best. Kanon (but not Clannad, especially). Mahoraba. 5CM per Second (big time). Noein (think about it, and it's incredibly romantic). And my sig pic, of course. That's Off the top of my head...
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Old 2009-04-19, 18:12   Link #456
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What anime do I find romantic? True Tears and BGI for starters - but maybe that's cheating because romance is the raison d'etre of those series. Petopeto-san - innocent romance at it's best. Kanon (but not Clannad, especially). Mahoraba. 5CM per Second (big time). Noein (think about it, and it's incredibly romantic).
See? All those series you mentioned (maybe with the exception of 5CM per Second) deal with the male character being average, while the female characters are idealizations (bishoujo-moe characters).

This series portrays just the opposite, with the male character being effectively a "prince charming", while the girl is pretty normal. Their dynamic is, like Orion said, pretty akin to shoujo manga.

So it's not that it lacks romance; it's just not the kind of romance you're used to.
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Old 2009-04-19, 18:25   Link #457
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Well so far the romance is good enough, but honestly its only a small part of what makes the show so interesting at the moment. I'm enjoying the fact that the atmosphere that they've set up so far makes me ask why more then simply dismissing things as silly or unrealistic...It has that great way of making me think in paranoid terms which is always fun.

It just feels like theirs nothing un-deliberate in the show...In the end this might not be true, but for now even the slightest thing makes me take notice and wonder just how it's going to fit into the bigger picture here. I really hope you can stick this one out Vexx cause I'd love to hear your thoughts on the episodes.
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Old 2009-04-19, 18:46   Link #458
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This series portrays just the opposite, with the male character being effectively a "prince charming", while the girl is pretty normal. Their dynamic is, like Orion said, pretty akin to shoujo manga.
Haha, if there was one thing that I didn't think about while watching this anime, is how an ideal man is the protagonist of the story.

Anyhow, I finally decided to watch the first two episode today, and I was quite interested. So there are these number of individuals who is going to save the world of humanity. Could a rewipe of memory be like a do-over for these people? Like that number 4, policeman guy. Would his memory be erased and have an another go and try something else to fulfill his goal as a 'savior'?

Another thing that I thought is whether these missle attacks are also one of these number guys at their attemp to save the world. Haha, maybe I have everything wrong.
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Old 2009-04-19, 19:00   Link #459
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Haha, if there was one thing that I didn't think about while watching this anime, is how an ideal man is the protagonist of the story.
He certainly isn't "prince charming", however we do have the opposite of most shonen romance anime/manga. It's usually your ordinary guy meeting an extraordinary girl (or girls).

Uruseiyatsura (Lum)
Ah, Megamisama
Tenchi Muyo
Video Girl Ai
Mahoromatic
Chobits

They are all very good examples. The boy is an ordinary guy (or at least it's how he lived so far). The girl is an alien, a goddess or a robot. She doesn't have to be necessarily an idealized model (she might have small breasts and such), she's just the key to a total change in the ordinary routine of the male protagonist.

Here we have the opposite with a pretty ordinary girl and a very very odd boy. It's certainly not a completely original idea, but it's rare in the shojo scenario, where the male characters are more "idealized" than "odd".
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Old 2009-04-19, 19:02   Link #460
Guardian Enzo
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See? All those series you mentioned (maybe with the exception of 5CM per Second) deal with the male character being average, while the female characters are idealizations (bishoujo-moe characters).

This series portrays just the opposite, with the male character being effectively a "prince charming", while the girl is pretty normal. Their dynamic is, like Orion said, pretty akin to shoujo manga.

So it's not that it lacks romance; it's just not the kind of romance you're used to.
Well, to each his own - I completely disagree with your descriptions of those series. I could go into voluminous detail as to why I think the individual series don't fit the charges filed against them, but this is a EotE thread and it would take too long. Suffice to say, I don't think the male characters in any of those shows are average - frankly, Mahoraba is the only one where I could even see the argument being made.

BGI fits the dynamic of shoujo manga (since, basically, it is one). The only piece of the shoujo dynamic I see with Eden is the heroine's character design, which is about as shoujo as you can get.
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