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Old 2009-03-29, 05:22   Link #41
mitsuganae
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Hi, brand new member here, so please bear with me. Someone commented in the Season 4 Ep. 13 thread how there is a sense that Yumi is "moving on" from Sachiko to Touko. Without spoiling particular plot points etc., I just wanted to ask readers of the novels if they also get this impression in the last 5-7 novels of the series. I myself am limited to what English translations/summaries appear on the web (okazu and Baka-Tsuki, etc.).

Call me old fashioned, but the crux of the franchise for me has always been the development of the Yumi/Sachiko relationship. Now, I don't view it as a lesbian relationship (neither is the Yumi/Touko one IMHO), but rather as an eloquent apostrophe to romantic friendship (look it up in wikipedia) -- a type of relationship that (for too many reasons) is all too rare in this day and age (alas!).

[quasi-rant mode on]

If there really is a sense that Yumi is "moving on" from Sachiko to Touko in the novels, I must say it makes me worry about Sachiko. I'm not too worried about Yumi -- she's got a great support structure in place, and she has gained so much in confidence and maturity. Despite how much more warm and open Sachiko has become, I still get the impression that only Yumi can completely unlock her heart. Yes, I know where Sachiko will be going for college, but that doesn't make me worry about her any less. Though I could see how it is (in many ways) inevitable, the thought that Touko's presence has diminished Sachiko's place in Yumi's heart just saddens me (for Sachiko's sake) to no small degree.

Of course I'm aware that it is Sachiko herself who pushes Yumi into finding a petite soeur. Aside from that poignant conversation between the two about the importance of love at the end of Soeur Audition (completely and utterly ruined in the anime!), do the novels give any insight into Sachiko's thought process on this matter (forgetting the practical matter of the Yamayuri Council)? Does Sachiko somehow think that she can do nothing more for Yumi, that Yumi is better off with someone else, or that she is being a burden to Yumi? If so, I must disagree with Sachiko herself -- the stories covered in Season 3 touchingly show how the relationship becomes a catalyst for personal growth for both of them. Sheesh, I've succeeded in depressing myself even further!

And if Sachiko ends up being stuck in a loveless marriage with her cousin, that would sadden me even more! No need to address this particular issue -- I'll wait until the last novel is translated.

[quasi-rant mode off]

Mods, please feel free to move this post to another thread if necessary. I myself am unsure whether it belongs in this thread, the Ep. 13 thread, or the Q & A thread.

Last edited by mitsuganae; 2009-03-29 at 09:50.
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Old 2009-03-29, 10:21   Link #42
cynicalicious
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Well, it's one of those things where Sachiko realizes now that she has to share Yumi now, but she also realizes that it's for the best, so it's probably a little bittersweet for her. Sachiko is going to move on and graduate, and it's only proper that Yumi has an imouto to support her, just like Sachiko did.

That said, don't think that Yumi is suddenly "over" Sachiko or something. Far from it. Sachiko is still the Sun that planet Yumi orbits. The last few books are all about this. The main difference now is that Yumi has Touko to help her. If Sachiko had graduated, and Yumi were soeur-less, well, that might have been a little messy.

And don't forget, Sachiko is going to Lillian U because she wants to be near Yumi. It's not like they're going to just drift apart. They may not see each other every day, but as Sachiko said before, she considers Yumi as 身内, or part of her real family.
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Old 2009-03-30, 07:36   Link #43
mitsuganae
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Many thanks, cynicalicious. I suppose the Touko-centricity of the latest season made me panic on behalf of Sachiko. Come to think of it, I worry about Rei and Yoshino as well -- I have no idea what will happen to them in the end (and I'm not asking to be spoiled at this point). If another animated season is made, I hope the other characters/relationships will be given due weight.

It's good to know that the last few books focus on Yumi and Sachiko. I've always found their relationship to be deeply touching.
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Old 2009-03-30, 10:17   Link #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicalicious View Post
And don't forget, Sachiko is going to Lillian U because she wants to be near Yumi. It's not like they're going to just drift apart. They may not see each other every day, but as Sachiko said before, she considers Yumi as 身内, or part of her real family.
More like 家内 if you ask me
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Old 2009-03-30, 10:40   Link #45
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Care to explain the joke for language-challenged souls such as myself?
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Old 2009-03-30, 10:41   Link #46
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Yuri jokes. (aka: the two kanji's are kanji's used for one's family, but the second has a 'one's wife' connotation.
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Old 2009-03-30, 10:47   Link #47
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I see. Many thanks, Proto.
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Old 2009-04-01, 00:21   Link #48
Yaoi_Daisuki
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4th season ended =( cant wait for the 5th season

guess the next season will be featuring on the farewell of the current roses and the welcoming of the new 1st year.

any one who reads the novel of maria sama ga miteru? do yumi still remains as the main character after she graduate? or author have yet to touch on that part
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Old 2009-04-01, 00:56   Link #49
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From what I know, the 35th novel (the finale) ends with the graduation of Sachiko and Rei.
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Old 2009-04-01, 01:05   Link #50
cynicalicious
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Not exactly, there's one little mini-chapter after that. It's a very fitting end.
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Old 2009-04-01, 21:47   Link #51
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Just found this while searching around on Bk1. In the May issue of Cobalt (which came out today in Japan), guess who has a short story called Maria-Sama Ga Miteru: Hankachi Hiroi? Yes, that would be Konno Oyuki. It's a 13 page story, illustrated by Hibiki Reine.

(It translates to "The picked-up handkerchief," I guess. I suck at translating, if you haven't already figured it out.)

This is more proof that someone isn't done with a certain series. She might be done with a certain storyline, but not with the rest of the series, I guess? Or maybe she's just tying up loose ends? Bah. Now I need to get my hands on a copy of this.

Bk1 happened to list the contents of this month's magazine, and it happened to turn up when I was doing a search of Konno Oyuki's name.

http://www.bk1.jp/product/03105402

If you go down past the gray horizontal line about halfway down the page, they list the contents of the magazine. (Too bad it's a JPEG, and not text.) Anyway, the fifth line is the short story, with illustrations by Hibiki Reine.

This is one of those things that could be big... but might not be. It's hard to tell.
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Old 2009-04-01, 21:57   Link #52
agila61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicalicious View Post
Just found this while searching around on Bk1. In the May issue of Cobalt (which came out today in Japan), guess who has a short story called Maria-Sama Ga Miteru: Hankachi Hiroi? Yes, that would be Konno Oyuki. It's a 13 page story, illustrated by Hibiki Reine.

... This is more proof that someone isn't done with a certain series. She might be done with a certain storyline, but not with the rest of the series, I guess? Or maybe she's just tying up loose ends? Bah. Now I need to get my hands on a copy of this.

... This is one of those things that could be big... but might not be. It's hard to tell.
But they haven't been animating the short stories (at least so far). If short stories set inside the existing Maria-sama ga Miteru timeline dribble out, and make an eventual new short story collection, that just makes that much more weight for my campaign for a "Lillian Tales" OVA after the main anime story arc has been brought to an end.
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Old 2009-04-01, 22:25   Link #53
cynicalicious
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Well, the thing is, everyone thought that "Hello, Goodbye," was it. The end. We're done. Nothing left to see here. These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along.

Then we find out O-Shaku Sama is continuing. Okay, no biggie. That's Hanadera. Maybe she's just not done with that. She is a writer after all, and she has bills to pay. That's a different storyline, and I'm sure it sells just fine.

But this is going back to Maria-Sama, a series that Conventional Wisdom thought was over. Done. Finished.

When I scanned through "Hello, Goodbye," I thought so, too. It had a feeling of being over and done with. She even put -了- at the end, which is kind of like putting -THE END- at the end, which I don't remember her doing before.

So I guess she's not done with the series (or at least the *setting*) after all, and what that means is anyone's guess. It's one of those things we'll just have to wait and see over time what happens.

It could just mean that she's going to put out some random stories about random people at Lillian while she tries to find something else to write, (because she has to pay the bills), or she could be gearing up for a whole new chunk of books featuring Yumi & Co. as 3rd years. (Which I would love to see, for a spoilery reason.)

Spoiler for Why do I want more books? This will spoil stuff you didn't see in Season 4!:

Last edited by cynicalicious; 2009-04-01 at 22:37.
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Old 2009-04-02, 13:13   Link #54
agila61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicalicious View Post
... It could just mean that she's going to put out some random stories about random people at Lillian while she tries to find something else to write, (because she has to pay the bills), or she could be gearing up for a whole new chunk of books featuring Yumi & Co. as 3rd years. (Which I would love to see, for a spoilery reason.)
"Random Lillian Tales" would slide in under a fudge factor as not changing "The End", as long as they are inside the existing timeline of the main storyline.

Obviously, what we need is for her unconscious to be coming up with the brilliant complication-abounding petite soeur character for Touka-san or Noriko-san or both, to join the incoming Rosa Foetida en bouton to form a first year trio ... which would then be another twenty or more novels in the new series as they grow to second years. So after "The End" comes a whole new beginning.

After the four or five volume "Spring II" OVA is produced, I will agree to forgive the absence of a "Lillian Tales" short story OVA if there is a Maria-sama ga Miteru: New Wings series of novels coming out. Otherwise, I am going to be adamant (unable to do anything to bring it about, of course, but still, adamant).
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Old 2009-04-02, 15:50   Link #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicalicious View Post

Spoiler for Why do I want more books? This will spoil stuff you didn't see in Season 4!:
Thanks for the extra insight about stuff in Bara No Kamui. It would be indeed interesting to see rest of the story not tackled in the 4th season. (I guess i was right when i commented on Eps. 13 that Yumi should Snuff the Drama President. )

I do believe that Oyuki Kanno, after she's done with story supervising of the Anime she would probably rest awhile before pursuing whatever she's gonna tackle. With hope it's related to Marimite.

That said, I do believe there will indeed be a 5th season. As i was correct in predicting that the 4th season will end with Yumi making Touko her Soeur. (sorta...)
I predict the 5th season will end with Yoshino taking in Nana. I also believe that it will probably be a TV version. repeating the schedule they did on the first season that started in January and second season in July. So July is my target bet.

Given that the DVD of the 4th season are selling really well (though i heard there were Hiccups on the product) and they have a big fast food chain backing them , plus Right Stuf/Nozomi most likely infused them with fresh cash to get the license in a hurry. I'm sure they don't have money problems.

J.K. Rowlings did finished her H. Potter books and i guess end of the Marimite Novels is a very fitting ending. Though i should point out that H Potter books rely it's story on the life of the main protagonist, whereas Marimite is kinda set up like the girl group Morning Musume were after one memeber graduates a new member comes in, thus it's like an endless cycle.

I'm a big fan of Sachiko (she's the reason i watched it) but new charcters keeps popping up that are also interesting that you want to watch too. It would be nice to see how Noriko, Touko and Nana will do when they became roses.
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Old 2009-04-02, 20:46   Link #56
cynicalicious
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I wouldn't hold my breath on a 5th season starting anytime too soon. This isn't a series that rushes out new seasons. I'd also wager that they'll still have to get the money together either way, and popular or not, it's going to take work to get everyone happy. If you're extremely lucky, the earliest would be something in fall or winter of next year.

And that's being very optimistic. There's nothing in the works as far as I've heard, either.

Also, keep in mind that they aren't just handing money out these days.

As for Nana...

Spoiler for Massive Spoilers that will ruin that and the ending:


Theoretically, yes, Marimite could go on endlessly as you posit, and I wouldn't mind seeing it, too, because I'm a character-driven reader as well.

Also, to be honest...

Spoiler for another kind of spoilery reason why I want more books:


But I think we're going to have to be patient and see what happens. We may a better idea around July, when her next book will probably come out. They usually come out every three months or so.

She may just use MSGM as a way to write random short stories for now. Why struggle to create a whole new setting for your fiction when you have a canned setting that readers already grok right at your fingertips. (And it sells, too?) Just don't necessarily expect to see familiar faces.
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Old 2009-04-03, 11:54   Link #57
an63l
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cynicalicious did the future novel after episode 13 have moment of yumi and touko?
could you please give me some spoiler because i want to know how their
relationship develop after the anime because i think the anime cut to many great scene from novel
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Old 2009-04-03, 12:14   Link #58
cynicalicious
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There are 5 more books after the last episode of season 4. I'm not going to summarize them all here, mostly because I've only read 3 of them, and skimmed the last 2. (I haven't had a chance to sit down and properly read them yet.)

Bottom line: yes, their relationship progresses like any relationship would, but it's not all sunshine and happiness. Touko is trying to do something she's not used to, and so is Yumi. So there are going to be all sorts of bumps in the road.

Also...

Spoiler for Last Arc in the series. Big Obvious Spoiler:


There's more to it than that, but yeah, they go through some stuff.
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Old 2009-04-05, 20:25   Link #59
agila61
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Originally Posted by cynicalicious View Post
... She may just use MSGM as a way to write random short stories for now. Why struggle to create a whole new setting for your fiction when you have a canned setting that readers already grok right at your fingertips. (And it sells, too?) Just don't necessarily expect to see familiar faces.
Its not unheard of for an author to put a story to bed, set it aside for years, and then for new inspiration to strike. She obviously feels tremendous affection for these characters, so if inspiration does strike, I expect we will learn of it with word of a new release. But if it does happen, its more likely to happen in real world time that in internet time.
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Old 2009-04-24, 22:49   Link #60
mitsuganae
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Having recently reviewed the first three seasons, it struck me how particularly graceful the third season was, and how it managed to incorporate so much of the novels they were based on (judging from Okazu's translations/summaries and Baka-Tsuki). But in many ways, those novels were perhaps the least problematic to adapt, given their relatively uncomplicated structures and/or plots.

Obviously the meat of the fourth season was Yumi/Touko, but judging from what I've learned of the novels, many things had to be sacrificed simply to get to the Valentine's date by thirteen episodes.

So here's another question for those who have read the remaining novels -- do they present structural and/or narrative problems that may hinder their transformation into another season (whether it be broadcast or OVA)? Can the remaining novels be satisfactorily translated into a thirteen episode season (or five or six OVAs) without leaving out too much? Can they incorporate the important things they left out from the fourth season, or would that create further structural problems?

I know it's not the end of Yumi/Touko, but I hope they can somehow make a hypothetical fifth season more balanced (assuming there aren't any other things/relationships that could potentially make things lopsided). If they could somehow recover the wonderful sense of ensemble the first two seasons had, that would be lovely! But then again, maybe aspects of the remaining novels may not allow a balanced ensemble season to take place, hence my query.

P.S.: I know aspects of my query have been touched upon in previous posts, but I just want my particular concerns addressed in more depth, if anyone is willing. Many thanks in advance.
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