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Old 2011-03-05, 08:55   Link #1041
Irisiel
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Father Hentai neither Luca nor Alto knows why Quarter is leaving when they try to stop them. That's why Luca asks them why they're leaving when they should fight Vajra together.

Sheryl's self-centralism is actually an expression of her obsessive self-reliance. She was alone on the streets as a kid; you cannot trust anyone but yourself in such a situation. Take note that in the first episode, she's right that amateurs would do something excessive, jeopardising the concert. The reason why she projects such confidence is because she grew up in a world where weaknesses will be punched upon and she would be devoured whole.

Even with Grace, Sheryl must keep a certain professional distance, as their roles are as manager and songstress, not mother and daughter. They sometimes cross over into sisterly territory, but never outright maternal.

And she's not as self-centred that she doesn't take notice of people around her. She picks up on Ranka's insecurities, for example.

LoveMeKags, it is possible to be close friends and still use that friendship as a smokescreen to hide another objective. That is, to say, that Alto and Ranka could be friends, but he sometimes twisted that friendship to hide the affection he felt towards Frontier (which is when I say excuses, excuses might sound like a bad word, but what Alto was doing was not within the scope of normal excuses, but rather him being tsundere towards Frontier). It's when he stops making excuses and projecting onto Ranka that he accepts that Frontier itself needs protection.

Like I said, he offers to kill a friend for Frontier. That would make anyone sad (maybe even sadder to know that said friend could be in the claws of a monstrous enemy, with only a suspicious person backing them up).

Granted, I may be reaching with the rooftop scene. (It just showed up on my re-watch list. However, you keep talking about Alto stopping Ranka from falling; what do you make of Alto rushing forward to hold up Sheryl on the rooftop?) However, I really do think that Ranka quit the moment she saw Alto and Sheryl, because all her songs at Frontier from that moment on is not for Frontier at all. (And then she leaves.)

The problem I have is when you try to blame Alto for not reading Ranka's feelings, when it's Ranka and everyone else sheltering her who causes her to read things wrong.
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Old 2011-03-05, 08:55   Link #1042
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
Sheryl was a bitch before her life drastically changed. All about her life is all about herself "Watashi wa Sheryl Nome". This says much about how self centered she was. The friendly fight with Ranka opened her up that she also has to fight for the love she desires and that at any point another person can take her love. Unless the guy is not so numb.

And on the other side. Please change your tone and be polite. Only because other don't share your opinion does not give anyone the right to use lame words.
No, she was not a "bitch" before her life drastically changed. But it's very telling about yourself that you call her so.

She gave friendly advice to Ranka without solicitation, she did not treat others in a truly bad way ( one crabby day after arriving with jet lag at your own concert doesn't count to make one a "bitch". Also, she was right about hiring amateurs. ).

And I will talk how I damn like. LoveMeKags has now repeatedly lied in attempts to swing discussion her way, any time she was called on it she gave the lamest excuse possible ( "I might have misremembered"; "Fansubs are different" ) and she does that continuously during her large and convoluted screeds. I can't spend hours going through this line-by-line just to get the next wall of text with bad information thrown at me an hour later.

So I say that I won't answer those anymore. When she discusses based on what actually happened, instead of fantasy scenarios, then maybe she is worth having a discussion with again. Not before.
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Old 2011-03-05, 09:13   Link #1043
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
No, she was not a "bitch" before her life drastically changed. But it's very telling about yourself that you call her so.

She gave friendly advice to Ranka without solicitation, she did not treat others in a truly bad way ( one crabby day after arriving with jet lag at your own concert doesn't count to make one a "bitch". Also, she was right about hiring amateurs. ).
Ok, let's recap:
- she is not capable to work with amateurs and flames Cathy. Well from a pro I expect that they are capable to work even with amateurs. But you are right maybe. Your opinion.
- Sheryl treats Alto like a dog, by commanding him around and playing with him
- She left alone to search for her earrings without telling where exactly she is
- She presumes to use EX-Gear and gets busted

At the beginning she is a star with allures = bitch.

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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
And I will talk how I damn like. LoveMeKags has now repeatedly lied in attempts to swing discussion her way, any time she was called on it she gave the lamest excuse possible ( "I might have misremembered"; "Fansubs are different" ) and she does that continuously during her large and convoluted screeds. I can't spend hours going through this line-by-line just to get the next wall of text with bad information thrown at me an hour later.
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Sorry, you lose. Forumm rules. Just a reminder even though LovemeMeKags fansubber and shares other thoughts based on how he interpretes the situation does not give anyone of us the right to use bad words. Just wrap it in politer words or don't reply as you already said.
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Old 2011-03-05, 09:23   Link #1044
Father Hentai
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Originally Posted by Irisiel View Post
Father Hentai neither Luca nor Alto knows why Quarter is leaving when they try to stop them. That's why Luca asks them why they're leaving when they should fight Vajra together.
I won't disagree with you here but then I say that both Luca and Alto are both blinded by the situation. Interesting about the hijacking scene is why did not Klan join to chase the Quarter instead she salutes them? The note must have included enough information about the current situation and what they attempt to do. I know it is much random here and we can interprete a lot here.

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Originally Posted by Irisiel View Post
The problem I have is when you try to blame Alto for not reading Ranka's feelings, when it's Ranka and everyone else sheltering her who causes her to read things wrong.
The crux is, everybody knew about Rankas feeling and only Alto as the only one who could not see it. Michel saw it, Klan as, Nanase and even Sheryl. Basically a questions what comes up here is how can someone or something be protected if I am not capable to vow to that person or a nation.
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Old 2011-03-05, 09:24   Link #1045
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Spoiler for Aside, for Father Hentai:

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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
Sheryl was a bitch before her life drastically changed. All about her life is all about herself "Watashi wa Sheryl Nome". This says much about how self centered she was. The friendly fight with Ranka opened her up that she also has to fight for the love she desires and that at any point another person can take her love. Unless the guy is not so numb.
The phrase "I am Sheryl Nome" is really just a reflection of Sheryl's public persona. One of the running themes in this series is the contrast between public and private, between truth and fiction, between being cybernetic and being "natural. Sheryl's development never had anything to do with becoming "less selfish". If anything, it was about giving less of herself to her duty (i.e. her public persona) and more about discovering what it means to live for herself.

That was a pretty important point in episode 25. She's given her whole life to music and the public. But it's all for naught if she dies in the process: she has a "family" waiting for her to come back.

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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
I won't give much about the slap of a dying person. If someone has seen how melodramatic first-aid-procedures are done in movies or series, then a slap is just nothing.
While you can crack ribs while doing chest compressions, it's a side effect of pushing down on their chest in order to manually pump their heart. Unless the slap itself was somehow involved in transmitting the cure, then it doesn't achieve a whole lot that a simple

"Hey Sheryl, don't give up because we
a) believe in you!
b) can magically cure you!
c) have an upcoming musical number together!"

could not achieve as well.

That being said, I suspect that the scene is just thrown in there for the sake of symmetry, so I wouldn't spend too much time trying to make sense of it.
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Old 2011-03-05, 09:32   Link #1046
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Spoiler for To Swampstorm:


Anyhow, as already said I don't give much about the slap. I am interpreting it only that Ranka wants to wake up Sheryl and that it is wrong that she is not needed. It's just part to make the scene melodramatic. I could also say the same as in episode 20 when Sheryl slapped Ranka. I will just start to blame the producer because it is typical from the original series, where Hikaru slapped Minmay. Maybe the female protagonists just need to be slapped because the producer likes to slap the females. Even Hime sama got slapped
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Old 2011-03-05, 09:37   Link #1047
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
I won't disagree with you here but then I say that both Luca and Alto are both blinded by the situation. Interesting about the hijacking scene is why did not Klan join to chase the Quarter instead she salutes them? The note must have included enough information about the current situation and what they attempt to do. I know it is much random here and we can interprete a lot here.
Klan got her QR from them, so they could have explained the situation to her while she macronised and moved the suit out of Quarter. The crew of Quarter even say that they only got about 70% onboard (it is also worth noting that Canaria, Wilder and possibly a few others, were there when Ozma and Cathy explained things to Wilder), which means that Alto, Klan and Luca were hardly the only ones not going with Quarter.


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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
The crux is, everybody knew about Rankas feeling and only Alto as the only one who could not see it. Michel saw it, Klan as, Nanase and even Sheryl. Basically a questions what comes up here is how can someone or something be protected if I am not capable to vow to that person or a nation.
People are dense when it comes to relationships involving themselves. Plus, everyone but Sheryl had known Ranka longer than Alto, and Sheryl is, as I said, quite perceptive of others as long as it doesn't involve herself. Both Alto and Sheryl have a thing against assuming others feelings for themselves, to the point that they even turn a blind eye when some things should be obvious (and is obvious to others).
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Old 2011-03-05, 09:46   Link #1048
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Understood.

Well, I only got a little upset because everyone here was acting as if Ranka is a bitch. Honestly, I defend her. After all, I'm a Ranka fan before an AruRan shipper. I don't take lightly to someone belittling my favorite character, especially when it's not necessarily her fault (as she is created from Kawamori's mind and thrown into a place she shouldn't be, MF; whereas she SHOULD be in Shugo Chara!).
Well, this forums is well known to strongly dislike Ranka. If you look into the character pool thread then you should how the tendencies here are. So basically if you find some words to defend Ranka, then be aware that you get bashed by the others. Went through this already and it is a real pain to have a friendly discussion.

Btw. My apologies that I thought of you as a boy.
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Old 2011-03-05, 13:28   Link #1049
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Father Hentai:


Understood.

Well, I only got a little upset because everyone here was acting as if Ranka is a bitch. Honestly, I defend her. After all, I'm a Ranka fan before an AruRan shipper. I don't take lightly to someone belittling my favorite character, especially when it's not necessarily her fault (as she is created from Kawamori's mind and thrown into a place she shouldn't be, MF; whereas she SHOULD be in Shugo Chara!).

Honestly, I defend Alto too, as he's my favorite male character of all, except Ikuto. If someone makes Alto sound like a complete jackass, I will retaliate. And quite a few people do, saying he would kill a friend in cold blood. Alto cannot help it if he is dense, that is how Kawamori made him.

As for interpretations... tell that to Magnus. I was honestly talking to Thess and Irisiel. He/she jumped in right in the middle of that and decided to speak his/her mind. I DID NOT start our conversation.

Oh, and I'm a girl. That may shock you, considering how everyone calls me a HE. I'm a SHE! That's like the fifteen person to say that.
Excuse me, but I'd like to ask you who exactly is acting like Ranka is a bitch? Since you've been here, has it not been you who basically called Sheryl a bitch who treats Alto like a dog, while making up your own reasons which as far as I've seen have not been in any translations of the series, and I would know I downloaded and watched several versions of the series and none of them have anything that can be interpreted the way you did. You've been doing nothing but spinning around the facts to suit yourself and when people called you out on it, you pretend as though its the translation that you saw.

Heck some of the people you've talked to here admitted the fact that they either like tv series Ranka but was disappointed in her behavior (which check any bloggers from when the series was airing most of them are of the very same opinion). Most of the people here actually like movie Ranka. You're arguments are basically nothing but shipping in nature, taking only Ranka into consideration but never Alto, or subsequently any of the other characters. You have never been able to even admit to things that don't bode well for your ship, even when your reasoning is based on events that either never happened in series, or are filtered through your shipper goggles, even when the characters never even imply what you are trying to interpret.

Also if you think that this is the only forum where people lean towards Sheryl then you aren't a part of many forums. Most of the forums I've been on say the very things about Ranka; that she is immature, that her slap in the last episode was not only uncalled for but it was one her dethroning moments of suck, she's selfish, heck some of them even wondered why she was even in the series from the get go.
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Old 2011-03-05, 14:32   Link #1050
Father Hentai
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Excuse me, but I'd like to ask you who exactly is acting like Ranka is a bitch? Since you've been here, has it not been you who basically called Sheryl a bitch who treats Alto like a dog, while making up your own reasons which as far as I've seen have not been in any translations of the series, and I would know I downloaded and watched several versions of the series and none of them have anything that can be interpreted the way you did. You've been doing nothing but spinning around the facts to suit yourself and when people called you out on it, you pretend as though its the translation that you saw.
The one who said Sheryl is a bitch is: Cathy! When? Episode 1. So, it is a fact from the series that she is seen as a bitch for her statement. However, she changes.
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Old 2011-03-05, 14:38   Link #1051
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The one who said Sheryl is a bitch is: Cathy! When? Episode 1. So, it is a fact from the series that she is seen as a bitch for her statement. However, she changes.
That's not what I was talking about. Yes, Sheryl was a bitch int he first episode, however she did change. The problem with LoveMekags is that she totally disregards this in favor of her skewed shipping charged views, which you just need to look back at her arguments to see.
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Old 2011-03-05, 14:49   Link #1052
Father Hentai
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I just looked up until page 53 and tried to figure out when the discussion started in to a flaming war between shippers.

As far as I can see is that some Sheryl shippers feel offended because LmK made some interesting thesis. I don't have a problem to discuss about what can be or what is it all about.

Looking back the situation the thread reached it's peak - again - because of the slap scene in episode 25. Anyhow, why is she not allowed to make her thesis?

Considering the end of the series, Alto is still together with Sheryl but the love triangle remains to continue as it's an open end. Same as in the original series.
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Old 2011-03-05, 14:56   Link #1053
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
I just looked up until page 53 and tried to figure out when the discussion started in to a flaming war between shippers.

As far as I can see is that some Sheryl shippers feel offended because LmK made some interesting thesis. I don't have a problem to discuss about what can be or what is it all about.

Looking back the situation the thread reached it's peak - again - because of the slap scene in episode 25. Anyhow, why is she not allowed to make her thesis?

Considering the end of the series, Alto is still together with Sheryl but the love triangle remains to continue as it's an open end. Same as in the original series.
Its not that she's not allowed to make her thesis she's entitled to her own arugments, its just when her arguments are based are based on events that never happened, and when we ask her to provide proof her of her arguments she can't and then changes the subject. Making a thesis is one thing proving it is another, especially when one makes a thesis based on events that never happened, and for the record the debate restarted around 40 or so.

Also where were you in the last couple of days you are behind in your information.
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Old 2011-03-05, 15:03   Link #1054
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Its not that she's not allowed to make her thesis she's entitled to her own arugments, its just when her arguments are based are based on events that never happened, and when we ask her to provide proof her of her arguments she can't and then changes the subject. Making a thesis is one thing proving it is another, especially when one makes a thesis based on events that never happened, and for the record the debate restarted around 40 or so.
I now see what happened. However it does not change that some can also change their tone. The situation escalated because someone started with "LOL" or "WTF?" and so on. There are some thesis of her which indeed does not really make sense but the replies to that were not less better.


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Also where were you in the last couple of days you are behind in your information.
Am I? Uhm, I had RL, WoW, Ogre Tactics and shopping! Is this justification enough?
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Old 2011-03-05, 15:09   Link #1055
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I now see what happened. However it does not change that some can also change their tone. The situation escalated because someone started with "LOL" or "WTF?" and so on. There are some thesis of her which indeed does not really make sense but the replies to that were not less better.
I think that the "LOL" and "WTF" comments were based on most of use wondering whether or not she watched the same show, because half the things things she referenced never actually happened.



Quote:
Am I? Uhm, I had RL, WoW, Ogre Tactics and shopping! Is this justification enough?
Yes, yes you are. Very much behind.
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Old 2011-03-05, 15:21   Link #1056
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Snipping a lot many others would have addressed by this time:

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
No, I disagree. Alto's expression towards promising to kill her is sad when he talks to Klan. His true intentions are hidden in that episode. Look at his face when Klan asks him if "that is his love?" He looks sad after telling her he'd kill Ranka.
Quoting this:

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Originally Posted by darkplataform View Post
Actually...... There is an interview with Yoshino saying that Klan words are totally about his love to Frontier and doesn't refers by any means to an specific person.
Far more IC for Klan, who didn't really give any thought about Alto's "feelings" for Ranka in the entire series. His love for frontier. Not because he loves Sheryl so much he'll murder the third wheel or that he loves Ranka so much that he'll fold bomb her face. That's kind of...

But that he's making a sacrifice of a loved one (that he used as excuse in the past to mask his tsun tsun feelings for the ship and the people) for the sake of Frontier (the place he used to claim he hated). There is nothing romantic about this resolution. It's Alto's arc of maturity that display he's not using Ranka as an excuse anymore.

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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
Considering the end of the series, Alto is still together with Sheryl but the love triangle remains to continue as it's an open end. Same as in the original series.
The creators and voice actors affirm and promote the movie resolution as "the end of triangle" officially, so it means it's still open ended? People need to get over this fact (which has been foreshadowed already by the production, including the scriptwriter over the years) and ship what they want, even if it doesn't match who are the canon lovers in MF. It's not a crime to like an alternative pairing, but realize that is an alternative pairing. Enjoy yourself. I think that instead of discussing who Alto loves (has been resolved), discuss... how would an alternative pairing with him work (with anyone). Or with Sheryl. Or with Ranka.

What do you like of your favorite couple? For instance.
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Last edited by Thess; 2011-03-05 at 16:34.
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Old 2011-03-05, 16:51   Link #1057
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The creators and voice actors affirm and promote the movie resolution as "the end of triangle" officially, so it means it's still open ended? People need to get over this fact (which has been foreshadowed already by the production, including the scriptwriter over the years) and ship what they want, even if it doesn't match who are the canon lovers in MF. It's not a crime to like an alternative pairing, but realize that is an alternative pairing. Enjoy yourself. I think that instead of discussing who Alto loves (has been resolved), discuss... how would an alternative pairing with him work (with anyone). Or with Sheryl. Or with Ranka.

What do you like of your favorite couple? For instance.
If you are talking about the movie, maybe. If you talk about the series, then the triangle still remains. As I mostly focussed on the series, both of us are correct... or even wrong. Whatever...

Ah my favorite couples. Let me see. Ranka x Sheryl and Bobby x Alto or even Nanase x Sheryl x Klan. That would be my favored couples
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Old 2011-03-05, 16:57   Link #1058
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
Ah my favorite couples. Let me see. Ranka x Sheryl and Bobby x Alto or even Nanase x Sheryl x Klan. That would be my favored couples
No, no, no...you got it all wrong. Nanase needs to marry Luca, so he can die in a mysterious accident and she can become a wealthy widow.
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Old 2011-03-05, 17:03   Link #1059
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No, no, no...you got it all wrong. Nanase needs to marry Luca, so he can die in a mysterious accident and she can become a wealthy widow.
I wanted to peer Nanase, Klan and Sheryl because I can triangle them as the "Chests of terror"!
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Old 2011-03-05, 17:05   Link #1060
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I wanted to peer Nanase, Klan and Sheryl because I can triangle them as the "Chests of terror"!
"Chests of Terror" < "The Young Widow Angeloni and her Diamond-Covered Valkyrie."
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