AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Macross

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-09-21, 02:11   Link #1481
karice67
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: breezing through Tokyo...
Re: Northern Cross

If it helps, this is from the Nyan Tama booklet:

Gabriela Robin (lyricist) [NB: this English 'translation' is straight out of the booklet]:
Quote:
Truth of abyss, where a finger tracing the outline of emptiness reaches. "Wanting to die" equally means "Wanting to live"
Iwasato Yuho (lyricist):
A song I wrote whilst trying determinedly to feel with all my five senses. (The rest of this comment is about how it was really raw {emotionally - at least, that's what her comment sounds like to me: lit: 'scratchy' and 'bare'} and 'painful' to sing - but May'n pulled it off brilliantly).

(Kanno's comment is similarly about the difficulty of the song - she wonders if May'n is an amphibian, i.e. doesn't just breathe through her mouth and nose)

May'n:
Quote:
Sheryl, who struggles and suffers in the midst of the conflict. Even though she wants to sing, no one listens to her. I've cried through lots of Sheryl's songs, but I think this was the one where I cried and yelled the most. Yelling out (my) feelings whilst crying. It really hit home that Sheryl, who needs someone* to this extent, is just like any other normal girl.
(*this "someone" isn't referring to any particular person in the series, IMHO, May'n's just talking about how people need others around them - people whom they are connected to)
__________________

You must free yourself from that illusion,
from the illusion that a story must have a beginning and an end.


"No, you are not entitled to your opinion... You are only entitled to what you can argue for.”
- Patrick Stokes


karice's random translations (interviews, audio commentaries, manga, radio shows etc etc)


Last edited by karice67; 2011-09-21 at 08:03.
karice67 is offline  
Old 2011-09-21, 11:33   Link #1482
raile
<3
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Lala rainbow land~
Bah, last time I checked, the love triangle was as done as a well-done steak. But I guess we still have our "own fanonical views on canon"/air quotation marks.

Until majority has seen the second movie with their own eyes (myself included), there's nothing really new to discuss. Oh well, October is near.

But yeah...sooome people...just won't give it a rest (even without seeing the movie)
__________________
raile is offline  
Old 2011-09-21, 11:39   Link #1483
Tak
Banned
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by raile View Post
Bah, last time I checked, the love triangle was as done as a well-done steak. But I guess we still have our "own fanonical views on canon"/air quotation marks.
It also doesn't help that one certain individual is still trying to convert our views to an overstated, overcooked, over-burnt, and certainly over-emphasized point of view that we by now have rejected multiple times.

Give it a rest. The triangle is over.

- Tak
Tak is offline  
Old 2011-09-21, 15:48   Link #1484
magnuskn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
It also doesn't help that one certain individual is still trying to convert our views to an overstated, overcooked, over-burnt, and certainly over-emphasized point of view that we by now have rejected multiple times.

Give it a rest. The triangle is over.

- Tak
Yeah, long live SxA. Cheers!
__________________
magnuskn is offline  
Old 2011-09-21, 19:20   Link #1485
LoveMeKags
#1 Ranka Fan!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Age: 23
On a different note: I just wrote a reply to one of my AruRan friends which some of it actually applies to my thoughts on the movies in general and discusses in more depth about their character changes in the movies and my person demons towards the movies being produced verses the series.

(It mostly centers on the 1st movie with SOME mentions of the 2nd movie.)

Her thoughts:
Spoiler for Her thoughts:


My reply:
Spoiler for My thoughts on BOTH movies vs. TV series:


Sorry if I wrote a book but I put paragraphs. If any of it seems like flaming, it's just because of the way I centered on the bold printed words. No flaming was intended.
__________________

Last edited by LoveMeKags; 2011-12-07 at 06:44.
LoveMeKags is offline  
Old 2011-09-22, 00:19   Link #1486
Lancel
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
Re: Northern Cross

If it helps, this is from the Nyan Tama booklet:

Gabriela Robin (lyricist) [NB: this English 'translation' is straight out of the booklet]:

Iwasato Yuho (lyricist):
A song I wrote whilst trying determinedly to feel with all my five senses. (The rest of this comment is about how it was really raw {emotionally - at least, that's what her comment sounds like to me: lit: 'scratchy' and 'bare'} and 'painful' to sing - but May'n pulled it off brilliantly).

(Kanno's comment is similarly about the difficulty of the song - she wonders if May'n is an amphibian, i.e. doesn't just breathe through her mouth and nose)

May'n: (*this "someone" isn't referring to any particular person in the series, IMHO, May'n's just talking about how people need others around them - people whom they are connected to)
I always thought May'n was an extremely talented singer, it's why she's actually tied for the top spot of my favorite/best singers of all time because she can sing with such an emotional range and it really feels like she feels the song every time. Sure I don't know Japanese and I didn't understand a word she said, but I could feel the feelings the song exuded through her voice. All singers do that to some degree, but I always felt like it was deeper with May'n. I just felt it more, I didn't have to reason out anything.

Spoiler for Some of what LMK was talking about and I do talk about the movies slightly:


Alright, I've rambled on enough. My list though goes something like this:

Sheryl > YF-29 > Mecha Battles > Music > Alto > VF-25 > Ranka > AltoXSheryl > AltoXRanka > SherylXRanka > AruSheRan

I should really put more characters in there, but I couldn't come up with places to put them on such short notice. Scale ranges from Badass to Die In A Fire, but... really only Threesome makes me think Die In A Fire, the rest is okay by me. Well Sheryl/Ranka still makes me twitch slightly, but I could accept it if done tastefully. I'm still not entirely certain of all this, and I find it questionable that I put the YF-29 in second even though I haven't even seen the movie in which it appears. It just looks so badass and makes me weep for the sheer fact that it retains its full combat ability in an atmosphere, the lack of which always me sad when I thought about the VF-25. I also feel like I should put the Wings of Goodbye (the song) somewhere high on this list because I've listened to it a few hundred times and I still adore it to everloving pieces. To me it is just epic.
Lancel is offline  
Old 2011-09-22, 00:47   Link #1487
LoveMeKags
#1 Ranka Fan!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Age: 23
May'n's English, sadly, is not very good. That was the only part that made me like Nakajima Megumi's version of What 'bout my Star, because her English fit better. But that's just my opinion.
__________________

Last edited by LoveMeKags; 2011-12-07 at 06:44.
LoveMeKags is offline  
Old 2011-09-22, 00:47   Link #1488
Darthtabby
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
I was going to post a response to some stuff LMK was saying earlier, but after she opened a whole new can of worms with another post it seems kind of pointless. So I think I'm going to just state that Sheryl wanting to encourage Ranka to sing so that she could beat her and stop her from singing is complete and total BS and leave it at that for now.

Here's to hoping this doesn't turn into such a mess that the discussion on Northern Cross gets drowned out by it.
Darthtabby is offline  
Old 2011-09-22, 00:49   Link #1489
LoveMeKags
#1 Ranka Fan!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtabby View Post
I was going to post a response to some stuff LMK was saying earlier, but after she opened a whole new can of worms with another post it seems kind of pointless. So I think I'm going to just state that Sheryl wanting to encourage Ranka to sing so that she could beat her and stop her from singing is complete and total BS and leave it at that for now.
I was actually quoting something she said in the Kiss in the Galaxy manga about wanting someone to surpass her. In all means, it would mean she has a desire for someone to beat her so she can realize her fulfilled dream. I wasn't meaning it in a bad way even if it came out that way.
__________________
LoveMeKags is offline  
Old 2011-09-22, 01:05   Link #1490
Darthtabby
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
I think I may have misread that as "Sheryl wants to build up Ranka then crush her" rather than "Sheryl wants Ranka to surpass her so that she has a reason to stop singing herself" but regardless I still think the idea that was Sheryl's goal in the anime is just wrong.
Darthtabby is offline  
Old 2011-09-22, 01:10   Link #1491
LoveMeKags
#1 Ranka Fan!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtabby View Post
I think I may have misread that as "Sheryl wants to build up Ranka then crush her" rather than "Sheryl wants Ranka to surpass her so that she has a reason to stop singing herself" but regardless I still think the idea that was Sheryl's goal in the anime is just wrong.
It was how I interpreted it because later once Ranka was a famous singer, Sheryl expressed that she wanted to quit singing, perhaps as not to contend with Ranka. Ep.16 and Ep.19 began to show that Sheryl was jealous of Ranka's singing ability so much so that she became envious in Ep.14 when Grace showed her a poster of Ranka. It isn't unnatural since Sheryl thought herself the best Songstress in the galaxy and then this so-called "nobody" comes out of the woodwork with her help and suddenly nobody knows who she is anymore. Don't take it so harsh but in the manga, it seemed like Sheryl wanted that, but in the anime, it seemed like it was the opposite. But in the end, in the anime, it seemed like Ranka really was her way out of singing, as she'd accomplished everything she wanted, which she expressed to Alto in Ep.18, and now that Ranka was a big idol that had surpassed her, that was her dream come true.

It is not entirely the fact that she wanted someone to "beat her" but rather "take over for her."
__________________
LoveMeKags is offline  
Old 2011-09-22, 04:30   Link #1492
BetoJR
D-d-don't look!!!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 37
Yeah, that doesn't make a whole lotta sense. Alas, no real drive to write long walls of text to "correct" it exists within me. So, let's just leave it as my opinion, shall we?
__________________
It's always a great time to immerse yourself in Deculture love!
All hail the Empress!!!

BetoJR is offline  
Old 2011-09-22, 10:33   Link #1493
Tak
Banned
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Stop being so judgmental over something that transferred in an argument between us months ago. You know, the burn has faded and all I'm doing now is discussing things that happened during the series and giving my opinion.
No no Miss. I-See-True-Pairing, not us. There is no us. Its You against everyone else. There is nothing exclusive between you and I. Unless Cheesy or Natsuki somehow acquired you as a recent attraction to my harem and didn't tell me about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
That was the only part that made me like Nakajima Megumi's version of What 'bout my Star, because her English fit better. But that's just my opinion.
As far as I am concerned, they are both bad at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
On another note: May'n's English, sadly, is not very good.
Neither is your Japanese, but somehow that didn't stop you from telling us what Japan is supposed to be like while fabricating statements about Japanese culture. What, you didn't ever think we'd get offended, too? Shit.

- Tak
Tak is offline  
Old 2011-09-22, 10:43   Link #1494
Yot-chan
Minmay Guard
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
I'll give LMK this...Megumi's English is indeed better than May'n's.

That's the only thing she's right about, though. Everything else is mistaking Sheryl's generosity of spirit for some kind of death wish.
__________________
Yot-chan is offline  
Old 2011-09-22, 10:47   Link #1495
Tak
Banned
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
That's the only thing she's right about, though. Everything else is mistaking Sheryl's generosity of spirit for some kind of death wish.
Yeah, that was funny, if not stupid.

- Tak
Tak is offline  
Old 2011-09-22, 10:53   Link #1496
Yot-chan
Minmay Guard
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Yeah, that was funny, if not stupid.

- Tak
It'd be like saying Focker wanted to die just so Hikaru could take his VF-1S, right?
__________________
Yot-chan is offline  
Old 2011-09-22, 15:06   Link #1497
Lancel
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
No, no, not that time she sings Diamond Crevasse, the one right smack at the beginning of the first movie when Sheryl is just arriving and she's singing it in Griffith Park or whatever it is. I'll have to take a screenshot thingy later though. For the rest, yeah, I think we both kinda arrive at the same conclusion with regards to the movies and characters.

For that bit on Sheryl and Ranka and Sheryl hoping Ranka might surpass her, I don't think it was for any of those reasons actually. Neither did she want to quit nor did she want to build someone up just so she could crush them. I always felt what Sheryl wanted was someone who could compete with her at her level, someone who would inspire her to do better, because right then she was at the top with nothing else even to threaten her position as Most Popular Artist. Someone who would raise the bar so to speak and gauge her own improvement against, and that's ultimately what she got in the series, and through all the other adversity she faced she finally ended up singing again and becoming better for it, as Klan and Alto note in Northern Cross.
Lancel is offline  
Old 2011-09-22, 21:13   Link #1498
LoveMeKags
#1 Ranka Fan!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
I'll give LMK this...Megumi's English is indeed better than May'n's.
Yes, Megumi's English was better than May'n's on so many levels, but I explained why above, because her voice allows her to sing it better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancel View Post
No, no, not that time she sings Diamond Crevasse, the one right smack at the beginning of the first movie when Sheryl is just arriving and she's singing it in Griffith Park or whatever it is. I'll have to take a screenshot thingy later though. For the rest, yeah, I think we both kinda arrive at the same conclusion with regards to the movies and characters.
To be quite fair, neither had met and that was more of an introduction than them actually singing. Plus, Sheryl isn't singing with her. When both Ranka and Sheryl sing together near the end, they are both wearing sad faces.

But the one you're talking about was an introduction of the three characters. At that time, both Ranka and Sheryl were smiling upon their introduction to the storyline right after Alto was introduced.
__________________

Last edited by LoveMeKags; 2011-12-07 at 06:46.
LoveMeKags is offline  
Old 2011-09-22, 23:05   Link #1499
Hollowgolem
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Texas, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtabby View Post
I do have to admit the explanation about the Northern Star standing in for Ranka does seem to fit awfully well. (Though if someone else offers a good alternate explanation for the lines I might change my mind.) I kind of dislike the implications of the word “snatched” in that context. I probably would have been more comfortable with “pulled.” The bit about “away into the sooty darkness” also seems a bit strange in that context.
I always interpreted the Northern Star bit as a nod to Alto's love of the sky. In a bygone era, someone with a lust for adventure might, rather than flying in the sky, be pulled out into the sea, seeking adventure as a sailor. Polaris would be the guiding star for such sailors, "leading" or even "pulling"/"snatching" them from their beloved. Especially folk songs from the British Isles use this motif, like The Dark-Eyed Lady. But there are plenty of examples all over anime where Space is an Ocean, as well, so the idea of a woman pining for a lost lover seeking his adventure in the stars would be a low-hanging fruit for a woman writing songs in a place like Galaxy, filled with flyboys who presumably left lovers behind when they took to the skies.

Quote:
If the lyrics were written to refer to Ranka, then there’s no way it could have been written early on. The best fit would probably be that she wrote it after the bomb shelter scene but before the scene with Alto that preceded her actually singing the song.

I’m not sure if the lyrics should logically reflect Ranka’s current situation given Sheryl’s limited knowledge of it. It makes more sense for them to reflect earlier events. But who is to say the writers didn’t take some liberty?

If the lyrics do refers to Ranka then the song is a bit of an odd choice since I don’t think Sheryl had any doubts that Alto would stay with her in the immediate aftermath of his promise. But hey, if she’d already put a lot of work into the song, wouldn’t it be a shame to let it go to waste? (Though that does seem a bit wrong from a storytelling perspective.)
Sheryl came to the Frontier already a star in her own right from Galaxy. I assume, unless otherwise stated, that the songs she performs in the content of this story's timeline were already written, and just deemed poignant for that moment in the story.

Remember where this song is really featured in the series: in the eponymous episode in which this song really figures prominently, SMS is "abandoning" Frontier, striking out on their own much as a lover might leave his home, causing sorrow and sadness for the family. Made all the more poignant because Luca and Alto were part of the SMS "family," as well.

Quote:
As far as Sheryl’s possible doubts –I’m not entirely sure what to make of them at times. I think what she’s thinking in some particular scenes late in the series is probably a matter worth discussing. In general however I would say that she seems to have some, although she also seems to have times where she seems more sure of things. But then isn’t it natural for people to worry about whether a person they like likes them back? And one should really remember that Sheryl is shouldering a lot of responsibility and facing her own demise –I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s a royal mess on an emotional level at that point in the series. Heck, it wouldn’t overly surprise me if she was a bit back and forth on the issue of whether she thought Alto truly loved her or not.
Facing (apparently) inevitable death does tend to make one reconsider everything about their life, that's for sure. So Sheryl had a bit of an existential crisis. The scene where she passed out drunk with Alto is a good example of her living like she were dying.

Quote:
I’m a bit interested in hearing what some of other members have to say on the meaning of Northern Cross, particularly those members who have some understanding of Japanese.
My Japanese is not that great, but just from the perspective of someone who looks at musical motifs a lot, and is experienced in the criticism especially of musical symbolism, it's not hard to imagine that this is about a woman losing her beloved not to another woman, but to adventure.

But who knows. "Northern Cross" is a raw song, and gripping in a way that surpasses, for me at least, every other song in the series ("Diamond Crevasse" gets really close, though; I totally cried during the bunker scene, no lie). So whatever it's about, it's some emotional stuff. May'n's performance of this got the waterworks going for me before I could understand more than 1/5 of the lyrical content. That's some incomprehensible, but certainly tangible, emotion, whatever target it's directed to.
Hollowgolem is offline  
Old 2011-09-22, 23:19   Link #1500
Tak
Banned
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Oh, hello Hollow!! (no pun intended, no really!!)

- Tak
Tak is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.