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Old 2009-10-20, 10:59   Link #521
rocket
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Wow, I'm not getting why there is all this hating on Cis!

1) Self-righteous hero without skills to back it up is anime staple #32 (or was it #33?)
2) Her primary job seems to be a police like function of keeping the peace. Miscreants are not executed, they're thrown in jail. Seems reasonable that she'd have a hard tie delivering a killing blow to an enemy once he'd been neutralized as a threat.
3) I don't know why everyone assumes the infected prisoners can't return to being human. That Saddam looking bum had his entire arm transform into a zillion eyed looking demon in the flashback and was wandering around with a slight case of PTSD. I wouldn't put it past little Miss Cambell to find a way to redeem the human corrupted by the deamons.
4) She's damn cute. That's worth at least five episodes of slack before we expect real character development. Badass soldiers aren't born, they're made. Let's see what's made of Cis before we write her off.
5) MOAR Lisa!
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Old 2009-10-20, 11:06   Link #522
SeedFreedom
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Cicily is acting in accordance with her character. Shes idealistic, weak, and untrained. This however does not the fit expected "I can kick ass and look good doing it" character type that is usually the main. She's acting like a real person would in her situation, but that isn't what people are looking for in an anime character. The same problems that plagued Shiro from FSN plague Cicily. She might toughen up, but it would take something serious to do so. I don't see that happening.
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Old 2009-10-20, 11:22   Link #523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Whether or not Mr Big Shot was right, I think he had different reasons for giving Cecily flak when we first saw him. Maybe he was just a commoner that had to work his ass off and endure pain to get where he was and was pissed off that a weak girl Cecily would get to the same position simply because of her lineage. I would be pretty damn pissed off too. Though that's still no excuse.
that is a excuse, going through what he did to get his position he meets this girl who can barely keep it together at a little blood splatter? I'd be pissed at her too, she's gonna get her killed and those fighting beside her. and she didn't even kill it yet. just a little slash and she flips, doesn't she think that would have happen if she attacked? if those bugs zombied someone she knew a lot, I have a feeling she wouldn't even attack or run, but isntead try to help even tho its pointless

I hope and pray that they become friendish later on. and I pray she gets over it in Episode 4

"When wielding a sword, you must be prepare to kill and die"
"It is not a sin, to fight for the right cause"

Sorry but I've been playin too much "Way of the Samurai 1-3" to not be upset over this girls flaw she has yet to work over after becoming a knight.
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Old 2009-10-20, 11:35   Link #524
Haak
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There's never any excuse for rudeness unless it's actually productive but his wasn't. No I think his is an explanation but not an excuse.
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Old 2009-10-20, 12:02   Link #525
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i don't think he knows tho that Aria is a sword. >_>
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Old 2009-10-20, 12:16   Link #526
LKK
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
i don't think he knows tho that Aria is a sword. >_>
He shouldn't know that Aria is a sword. That should be a closely guarded secret even within the knights. Cecily probably shouldn't have told Luke or Lisa about Aria's true nature for that matter.
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Old 2009-10-20, 12:25   Link #527
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Originally Posted by LKK View Post
Cecily probably shouldn't have told Luke or Lisa about Aria's true nature for that matter.
Though i'm really not surprised that she did just that. She must trust them quite a bit.
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Old 2009-10-20, 13:20   Link #528
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
While I don't deny there is truth in what he said there is equal truth in what she said. Lets not forget Aria is a sword and so saying that swords are only for murder is an extremely rude statement as well as untrue. Whether he was trying to help her is debatable but the way he did it certainly didn't do any good except for making him come off as being high-handed.

Cecily is certainly not perfect but that's why I like her. She stands up for her ideals and even if makes mistakes as long as she moving forward and growing I can't dislike her. It is much easier for a person to abandon their ideals once they come face to face with reality. War and death might be the reality of things but those who accept them as the only way are bound to an unchanging cycle. We might never be able to escape that cycle but if everyone just accepts it as the only way then we're certainly never to change it. Once a woman's only purpose in life was to give birth to children and take care of the house of her husband. That was the reality of things but it changed didn't it? There were those who had it in them to deny that reality and push forward with there ideals. Now that reality is quite different.

This type of story element is fairly prevalent, Eureka Seven, Ga-rei Zero for example (different outcomes there), so I don't really see where all the hate is coming from. Honestly it might have more to do with somes dislike of Cecily's blunt personality. I have never found her overbearing in the least. She stands up for what she believes in and that's an admirable quality. She has a lot of room for growth and I liked to see how she turns out. How does she chose to employ her sword? Will she use her sword to protect people by killing others or will she find another way? I'd like to see how it turn outs.
The problem with calling her an idealist is that she's all mouth about it. She puts herself on a pedestal, but when called on to actually further her ideals she balks. She refuses to pay the price. She wants to be a great swordswoman, but she doesn't practice - she doesn't even want to pay the master blacksmith for the great sword she wanted. She wants to protect people, but she's not willing to fight for them, or even for herself.

She makes a big deal about carrying a sword she's not going to use the way it's meant to be. If she wants to keep it non lethal, she should get another weapon, like a baton.

In addition, she's reckless and insubordinate. Risa could have been killed in there, and maybe Aria, too. Does anyone care?


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Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
Im actually happy ep 3 ended the way it did. I thought it was a touch to show Cecily's innocence. One thing all soldiers must go through is the feelings associated with their first kill and in Cecilys case it can be a bit more gruesome given that you are in the persons face.
It's actually less gruesome than it could be. She was fighting a bona fide monster, rather than some poor schmuck who happened to wear the wrong uniform.

Quote:
She wants to protect life but that role sometimes requires you to take it granted the guy was already dead. I dont think her comrade should have called her a coward but i do understand his feelings. Because of her inaction she could have gotten herself and someone else namely one of her fellow Knights killed. There is nothing wrong with showing compassion its just sometimes it can be a hindrance. The upside is she showed Aria that a Knight can do more than just kill, that a Knight does not have to be blood thirsty and a knight can feel remorse for taking a life.
That's the one thing that displeased me about Aria. She's spoiling Cecily. It's nice that she's kind, compassionate and so on. It's even nice that she doesn't want to kill people. All fine qualities in a human being. But it also means she's in the wrong profession. I'm sure that even in the guard, there are jobs that don't require you to fight, like cook, or nurse. But "knight" isn't one of them.
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Old 2009-10-20, 14:15   Link #529
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Though i'm really not surprised that she did just that. She must trust them quite a bit.
I'm not surprised either that she told them. As for Cecily trusting them, I think Cecily trusts just about everyone until proven wrong. And probably proven quite disasterously wrong to boot. Not to join in on the Cecily-bashing because I like her, but I do think she's very naive.
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Old 2009-10-20, 14:30   Link #530
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Originally Posted by rocket View Post
Wow, I'm not getting why there is all this hating on Cis!
3) I don't know why everyone assumes the infected prisoners can't return to being human. That Saddam looking bum had his entire arm transform into a zillion eyed looking demon in the flashback and was wandering around with a slight case of PTSD. I wouldn't put it past little Miss Cambell to find a way to redeem the human corrupted by the deamons.
A demon contract (which we still don't know the details) and bug infestation seems to be two different things. The veteran knight explains how the bugs take over the host's brain. He then remarks "this can't be helped" before slashing away the infected people.

Aria (a 40-50 year veteran! ) also says once the bugs take hold of the host's brain, there is no possible way to save the person.

I'd take that as enough circumstancial evidence that those people cannot become normal again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LKK
He shouldn't know that Aria is a sword. That should be a closely guarded secret even within the knights.
From watching that conversation, it seemed to be implied that guy knew Aria was the sword. Afterall, he knows about Cecily's orders and Aria was talking about her previous masters. I do agree that Cecily shouldn't have gone telling Luke about her, nor asking her to transform in such an open area.
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Old 2009-10-20, 14:53   Link #531
Daniel E.
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
The problem with calling her an idealist is that she's all mouth about it. She puts herself on a pedestal,
She puts her beliefs and ideals on a pedestal, not herself. In eps. 2, she refers to herself as inexperienced, wich is hardly the best thing to say when you are "all mouth".

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
she doesn't even want to pay the master blacksmith for the great sword she wanted.
She can't afford expensive things with her salary and she is honest about it. She offers Luke alternatives to paid the blade and he refuses them on the spot.

She was willing to pay for the blade and that is shown in her way of offering alternative paying methods to obtain it.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
She wants to protect people, but she's not willing to fight for them, or even for herself.
She is willing, yet not capable enough.
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Old 2009-10-20, 15:01   Link #532
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I am confident we will see a lot of growth from Cecily as the series progresses. I hope they focus more on the characters and less on the world though, since the overall plot screams LOTR.
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Old 2009-10-20, 15:16   Link #533
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Daniel E. View Post
She puts her beliefs and ideals on a pedestal, not herself. In eps. 2, she refers to herself as inexperienced, wich is hardly the best thing to say when you are "all mouth".
She thinks she's somehow worthy of one of Luke's katanas, and she thinks she's too good to stay where she's been ordered to.

Quote:
She can't afford expensive things with her salary and she is honest about it. She offers Luke alternatives to paid the blade and he refuses them on the spot.
She only considered the matter of payment after Luke brought it up, and sounded genuinely surprised - meaning she expected to get it for free. The "alternatives" aren't exactly serious either. Buying on credit when she's shown herself to be reckless and not particularly competent? And she also insulted Luke when he refused her - bringing us back to her swelled head and sense of entitlement.

Quote:
She was willing to pay for the blade and that is shown in her way of offering alternative paying methods to obtain it.


She is willing, yet not capable enough.
No, in addition of having low skills - which doesn't keep her from jumping right in and have others do the heavy lifting of saving her - she's not willing. She froze when she found out she'd have to use her sword on a human body. What did she think she had it for?
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Old 2009-10-20, 16:08   Link #534
Daniel E.
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
She thinks she's somehow worthy of one of Luke's katanas.
She thinks Luke's katanas are cool and wants one. I am sure many others knights would have felt the same way if they had been there to see Luke fight the demon.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
and she thinks she's too good to stay where she's been ordered to.
As far as I can tell, she disobeyed her orders because she wanted to be more helpful to everyone in the city (as bad an idea as that turned out to be). To say that she did it out of arrogance and to show off to others is a wild guess at best.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Buying on credit when she's shown herself to be reckless and not particularly competent?
How is a lack of battle skill proof of one being a dishonest person is beyond me. From the first episode, one can tell that she is trusted by the people, and that alone makes me believe she is not the type to try and pull a scheme to cheat someone out of their money. (read: their deserved payment for a service)


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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
No, in addition of having low skills - which doesn't keep her from jumping right in and have others do the heavy lifting of saving her - she's not willing. She froze when she found out she'd have to use her sword on a human body. What did she think she had it for?
She wants to help others but still lacks the experience and the confidence to do it properly. Her desire to do it remains regardless of the outcome.

EDIT:

And one can use a sword as a symbol of authority; Much in the same way as some cops do their best as to not use their guns, but yet wield them daily. This is just me guessing but.... Cecily probably never had intentions of entering a war, and was mostly focusing on being a respectable authority figure to keep things in check in her city.

She is now caught on something bigger and will probably spend a few more episodes adapting to said scenario.
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Old 2009-10-20, 16:10   Link #535
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I am confident we will see a lot of growth from Cecily as the series progresses. I hope they focus more on the characters and less on the world though, since the overall plot screams LOTR.
but frodo doesn't snap when he sees blood to bad they can't teach Cecily a thing or two XD

I really,really,really hope Luke is the only MC in this anime -_-
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Old 2009-10-20, 17:28   Link #536
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I hope they focus more on the characters and less on the world though, since the overall plot screams LOTR.
I don't see the parallel. The characters are certainly not similar. As far as the world goes, there were wars in the past in both, and there are evil forces rising in the world, with a mysterious figure, and the existence of a magical item. If that's what it takes for the plot to "scream LotR," than I'd give up watching/reading fantasy. This show is located so far entirely in a large city, not a tiny village leading to a journey across the world. They are not trying to destroy Aria last time I checked. There are no halflings and no dwarves. The enemy are men making dark pacts to become fiendish monsters, or using creatures to infect others. There are no dark riders or hordes of orcs. The Lord of the Rings surely laid the groundwork for modern fantasy, but that doesn't mean anything with a vaguely (and I emphasize vaguely) similar plot is ripping it off.
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Old 2009-10-20, 17:35   Link #537
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I don't see the parallel. The characters are certainly not similar. As far as the world goes, there were wars in the past in both, and there are evil forces rising in the world, with a mysterious figure, and the existence of a magical item. If that's what it takes for the plot to "scream LotR," than I'd give up watching/reading fantasy. This show is located so far entirely in a large city, not a tiny village leading to a journey across the world. They are not trying to destroy Aria last time I checked. There are no halflings and no dwarves. The enemy are men making dark pacts to become fiendish monsters, or using creatures to infect others. There are no dark riders or hordes of orcs. The Lord of the Rings surely laid the groundwork for modern fantasy, but that doesn't mean anything with a vaguely (and I emphasize vaguely) similar plot is ripping it off.
I apologize if I made it sound as if I thought this series was ripping it off LOTR, but the first thing I thought when watching this was LOTR.
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Old 2009-10-20, 17:43   Link #538
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I apologize if I made it sound as if I thought this series was ripping it off LOTR, but the first thing I thought when watching this was LOTR.
Oh, alright. That's more understandable. This (besides the katana...ha) is pretty much a straight-forward Sword-and-Sorcery fantasy, and since that genre was established in its modern form by LotR, that's pretty unavoidable to have the same kind of atmosphere.
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Old 2009-10-20, 20:08   Link #539
scr
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
The problem with calling her an idealist is that she's all mouth about it.
Err... at least she didn't run away from that ice demon. That's after her comrades are dead left and right. That's something. Even if Luke was in the equation, she was definitely doing her share of work in that battle. (That the ice demon just chilled out watching Luke making the fabulous katana is something else.)

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
She puts herself on a pedestal, but when called on to actually further her ideals she balks. She refuses to pay the price. She wants to be a great swordswoman, but she doesn't practice
What... how did you come to this conclusion? She might be inexperienced, but it's not like she "never practice". Cambell or not, her superior must make sure she has the basic competences before he allow her to patrol the streets.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
- she doesn't even want to pay the master blacksmith for the great sword she wanted.
Okay, this is something that startled me too back then. Unless the Cambell is totally bankrupt, they should at least be able to fund the ore. Quality comes at a price. That Cecily expect to get the sword for free was something juvenile.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
She wants to protect people, but she's not willing to fight for them, or even for herself.
If it's about the zombies, she was fighting versus something that was human. Okay, the ice demon might be big and mean, but you know that in some way it's more like a wild beast. Fighting zombies or other humans suffering through fate worse than death, though, is like watching the destruction of values that define your existence as a human. It's an aberration, a violation of decency to the most severe degree. No wonder she trembled.
Slack should be cut for her this time-- maybe just this time. She's a knight after all, with all responsibilities of a knight and more.

My 2cents.
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Old 2009-10-20, 21:08   Link #540
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XD yea I was loling when the ice monster just stood there, could have cleaved Cecily in two if it wasn't for her breast plate of sexyness.
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