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Old 2009-10-25, 04:31   Link #641
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
I still dont get why they leave the stomack open -_-
Mobility. Plate that covers the stomach limits the movement of your torso and is heavier. It also is rather uncomfortable to sit in. The way Cecily's armor is constructed around the shoulders also gives her sword arm much more freedom of movement.
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Last edited by Keroko; 2009-10-25 at 05:23.
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Old 2009-10-25, 06:35   Link #642
Shiroth
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Really liked the fourth episode. Cecily's growth was really well done in this episode, and the breasts jokes are pretty fun, and not at all forced. Really like where this show is heading as well.
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Old 2009-10-25, 07:03   Link #643
MeoTwister5
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I don't know why but it seems strange for people going apeshit in cheering watching a Demon Blade turn into a sword. Even though we do know what it's capable of, the amount of excitement seeing Aria present herself and her blade form seems a bit... disproportional. Also the breast jokes would have been a lot funnier if they didn't have to focus on Cecily's chest everytime someone makes one.

But after chaos breaks out, Luke did hit the nail in the head. Even if he was going to help her he can only do so much, she'll have to do the rest. It was about damn time that Cecily suck it up and do what must be done. As Luke had said, she'd been asking help from him or probably someone else to do what she could and should have done herself. At least now she knows that sometimes to protect a life, you have to take it from another.
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Old 2009-10-25, 07:07   Link #644
Kyero Fox
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Originally Posted by scr View Post

Yuri... in my Record of Lodoss War?!
/sigh i knew the day would come when people are gonna think this too soon to tell if you ask me, don't be one of those obsessed ones *wipes blood off knife and points it to his "Location"*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Mobility. Plate that covers the stomach limits the movement of your torso and is heavier. It also is rather uncomfortable to sit in. The way Cecily's armor is constructed around the shoulders also gives her sword arm much more freedom of movement.
still stupid, being in battle, Comfort is the least thing you need to worry about and sitting atleast put some damn chain mail -_-
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Old 2009-10-25, 07:13   Link #645
SaintessHeart
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"Your breasts are so soft that I want to turn them into my personal pillow."

The start of this episode is already win. FANSERVICE! And a perverted sword! Plus Cecily x Aria!

Hopefully their friendship swings in that right direction......girls love is so beautiful

P.S I hope they will build up on Lisa and Luke's relationship soon. It is kinda mysterious why she would follow him and why he would give his life for her.
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Old 2009-10-25, 07:32   Link #646
Ansalem
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Why, it seems Cecily has practiced swordsmanship every day starting early in the morning since childhood, even though she only became a knight a month earlier. I guess she actually put effort into being a knight rather than being appointed one only from lineage. I also noticed Luke's eye thing now.

Spoiler for Episode 4:
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Old 2009-10-25, 08:42   Link #647
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
still stupid, being in battle, Comfort is the least thing you need to worry about and sitting atleast put some damn chain mail -_-
Comfort, no. Mobility, yes. A mobile warrior can beat a heavily armored warrior, depending on the equipment. Now that she starts wielding Aria, the advantages wil really come to shine. The rapier is a mobile weapon. Dodge instead of block, thrust instead of slice, when wielding a rapier full-plate becomes a liability. Sure, it will protect you, but it will also make it harder for you to make killing blows.

Now granted, it is far from realistic armor (the two breast bulges kinda ruin the idea of the armor deflecting blows away from the center, for one) but not covering of the stomach does have some practical use considering Cecily's weapon. A full torso covering plate would limit her mobility, and chainmail is heavy. Not just 'oh, I feel a bit of pressure' heavy but heavy heavy. Even a modern day one made from comparatively lighter material weights around 10kg. Having 10kg dragging down your shoulders isn't exactly improving ones mobility.

But yeah, most of it is just because it looks sexy.
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Old 2009-10-25, 09:35   Link #648
Anh_Minh
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Good. In one episode, Cecily got rid of her most irritating habits:
- she acknowledged her own limits, rather than blame them on her sword;
- she acknowledged that Luke didn't owe her anything;
- she actually had the resolve to fight to the death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Comfort, no. Mobility, yes. A mobile warrior can beat a heavily armored warrior, depending on the equipment. Now that she starts wielding Aria, the advantages wil really come to shine. The rapier is a mobile weapon. Dodge instead of block, thrust instead of slice, when wielding a rapier full-plate becomes a liability. Sure, it will protect you, but it will also make it harder for you to make killing blows.
And harder to have killing blows made on you. Better ranged weapons and the need to march long distances are what killed the heavy armor, not rapiers. Then again, considering what anime armor's like, I can understand why people wouldn't want to bother.
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Old 2009-10-25, 09:46   Link #649
technomo12
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actually i agree with the ratio on armor and mobility with keroko

as for Cecil i think her outfit is suitable for a rapier since it is a light weapon and considered as a main thrust type sword but it does not hurt to add some plating here and there but not so much to it is obscuring her mobility but all in all her look kinda attaches it to her (in a perverted way hahaha)

but im in for a additional shoulder plating and or plated gauntlet so at least she can parry some incoming blows with the back of her hand
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Old 2009-10-25, 09:54   Link #650
SaintessHeart
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Actually having plate armor on your waist means you are going to die a little faster. King Richard learnt it the hard way when his best knights are knocked from their horses and couldn't get up fast enough to deal with the pikemen, who simply drove their pikes into their helmet slots. In fact, I even read in a book that the Saracens implemented a field techniques on how to deal with the "armored beasts" of the KTs by just closing in on 2 sides, then getting the guy on the shield hand to slash at the chinks in their armour.

Besides Cecily is a girl, do you really think she can wear armor and do her daily patrols?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Comfort, no. Mobility, yes. A mobile warrior can beat a heavily armored warrior, depending on the equipment. Now that she starts wielding Aria, the advantages wil really come to shine. The rapier is a mobile weapon. Dodge instead of block, thrust instead of slice, when wielding a rapier full-plate becomes a liability. Sure, it will protect you, but it will also make it harder for you to make killing blows.

Now granted, it is far from realistic armor (the two breast bulges kinda ruin the idea of the armor deflecting blows away from the center, for one) but not covering of the stomach does have some practical use considering Cecily's weapon. A full torso covering plate would limit her mobility, and chainmail is heavy. Not just 'oh, I feel a bit of pressure' heavy but heavy heavy. Even a modern day one made from comparatively lighter material weights around 10kg. Having 10kg dragging down your shoulders isn't exactly improving ones mobility.

But yeah, most of it is just because it looks sexy.
Aria doesn't really look like a rapier to me, but she has the traits, long and slender blade for longer reaches and a grip-guard to prevent disarms by long weapons.

Also, regarding modern body armour, the lighter ones (for smaller size people and VIPs) weigh around 5-7kg and can stop small caliber rounds, nothing larger than a 5.56mm. The standard issue military ones (capable of stopping a ball 7.62 round if you are lucky, but bless you if they are AP) are around 11kg and are worn with the ammo webbing or integrated with it, bringing its total weight to around 17kg (up to 23kg if you are the squad gunner or ammo carrier). Medieval armor is different, they have no kevlar weaves, just plain metal and a suit weighs up to 30kg minimum, plate armor is around 50kg. I would hate to storm a bunker in that armor although it gives me more protection, because I might not make it away from a grenade thrown at my feet.

About Cecily's armor having breast forms....I think it is because it gives her a comfortable lift and bras don't exist yet.
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Old 2009-10-25, 09:59   Link #651
technomo12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Actually having plate armor on your waist means you are going to die a little faster. King Richard learnt it the hard way when his best knights are knocked from their horses and couldn't get up fast enough to deal with the pikemen, who simply drove their pikes into their helmet slots. In fact, I even read in a book that the Saracens implemented a field techniques on how to deal with the "armored beasts" of the KTs by just closing in on 2 sides, then getting the guy on the shield hand to slash at the chinks in their armour.

Besides Cecily is a girl, do you really think she can wear armor and do her daily patrols?



Aria doesn't really look like a rapier to me, but she has the traits, long and slender blade for longer reaches and a grip-guard to prevent disarms by long weapons.

Also, regarding modern body armour, the lighter ones (for smaller size people and VIPs) weigh around 5-7kg and can stop small caliber rounds, nothing larger than a 5.56mm. The standard issue military ones (capable of stopping a ball 7.62 round if you are lucky, but bless you if they are AP) are around 11kg and are worn with the ammo webbing or integrated with it, bringing its total weight to around 17kg (up to 23kg if you are the squad gunner or ammo carrier). Medieval armor is different, they have no kevlar weaves, just plain metal and a suit weighs up to 30kg minimum, plate armor is around 50kg. I would hate to storm a bunker in that armor although it gives me more protection, because I might not make it away from a grenade thrown at my feet.

About Cecily's armor having breast forms....I think it is because it gives her a comfortable lift and bras don't exist yet.

hmm riiiiiight brassiers ist invented yet well not yet in that animes time line.......

but still would cecils armor be better if it were not formed to her breast and made in a formed bulk in front (kinda like saber's breast plate) so that in case of some stupid luck happens to drive a sword staight in the middle it might deflect it...
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Old 2009-10-25, 10:18   Link #652
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Actually having plate armor on your waist means you are going to die a little faster. King Richard learnt it the hard way when his best knights are knocked from their horses and couldn't get up fast enough to deal with the pikemen, who simply drove their pikes into their helmet slots. In fact, I even read in a book that the Saracens implemented a field techniques on how to deal with the "armored beasts" of the KTs by just closing in on 2 sides, then getting the guy on the shield hand to slash at the chinks in their armour.
Of course, armor doesn't make you invincible. It's just generally better to have it, that's all. (Did you think those medieval soldiers were wearing it for fun?)

Quote:
Besides Cecily is a girl, do you really think she can wear armor and do her daily patrols?
Indeed not. Life's full of those trade-offs. I'm just saying, if all we're looking at is a one on one sword fight, it's better to have good plate armor.


Quote:
Also, regarding modern body armour, the lighter ones (for smaller size people and VIPs) weigh around 5-7kg and can stop small caliber rounds, nothing larger than a 5.56mm. The standard issue military ones (capable of stopping a ball 7.62 round if you are lucky, but bless you if they are AP) are around 11kg and are worn with the ammo webbing or integrated with it, bringing its total weight to around 17kg (up to 23kg if you are the squad gunner or ammo carrier). Medieval armor is different, they have no kevlar weaves, just plain metal and a suit weighs up to 30kg minimum, plate armor is around 50kg. I would hate to storm a bunker in that armor although it gives me more protection, because I might not make it away from a grenade thrown at my feet.
More like 20kg. Unless you're talking about tournament armor, which weren't used in actual battle. Lighter than a modern's soldier's kit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armour#Composition
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Old 2009-10-25, 10:26   Link #653
Kadrias
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Hooray, Cecily did something!! ;D
Actually enjoyed this episode.. although admittedly that was partly due to making fun of it while watching it. ;;>3>
They sure did talk a lot about Cecily's chest this ep, though. To be honest, I'm surprised that didn't happen sooner with that armor of hers.
But yeah, stupid boob jokes and random panty shot aside, this ep was gewd.
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Old 2009-10-25, 10:27   Link #654
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aftually if your fast and strong enough you really would not need an armous since you can dodge parry and even kill the attacker before getting hurt

well i mean if your that good good as those samurais
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Old 2009-10-25, 10:41   Link #655
LKK
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All this talk about Cecily's breastplate and lack of stomach covering ignores the fact that except for the additional allowance for her breasts, her armor is exactly the same as the ones worn by the male members of the knights. Check out ep 2 where there are numerous close-up shots of what the male knights wear. Cecily's armor, the half-chest breastplate, is exactly the same as the men's. Her entire upper body outfit is the same as their's. Cecily's outfit doesn't differ from the men's until the lower half where she wears that little skirt while the men wear pants. What I'm trying to say is that everyone wears outfits like hers. It's a standard issue uniform for the city's knights, not some bizarre style that she alone is wearing. (The fact that the size of her breastplate's breasts keeps changing, I attribute to poor animation.)
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Old 2009-10-25, 10:48   Link #656
SeedFreedom
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Well, TBH the curves on the breast plate are a little ridiculous. I think people are looking for something closer to Saber's armor from FSN, which do seem much more practical. I do agree for a smaller girl the lighter the armor and the more mobility, the better, as well as guys armor is similarly based.

I think the biggest thing is people are bashing her more on her character, and using the absurd armor as an excuse.
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Old 2009-10-25, 10:51   Link #657
Kinku
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ahh man i love this show! Been waiting for a show like this since the record of the lodoss war
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Old 2009-10-25, 10:58   Link #658
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by technomo12 View Post
aftually if your fast and strong enough you really would not need an armous since you can dodge parry and even kill the attacker before getting hurt

well i mean if your that good good as those samurais
Samurai who also wore armor, for much the same reasons.
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Old 2009-10-25, 11:08   Link #659
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
More like 20kg. Unless you're talking about tournament armor, which weren't used in actual battle. Lighter than a modern's soldier's kit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armour#Composition
With that information, I am starting to think that there is little use of that armor, probably as a psychological effect. Plate armor souldn't be so light if it is reinforced, so it must have been used only for deflecting slashes and arrows. A solid spear/halberd or thick-bladed sword could easily perforate the armor. Greatsword wielders like Lansknechts (though they will only exist 1-3 centuries later) could smash that armor with the mass of their swords.

Samurais put alot of trust in their blade and techniques, when fighting straight swords, they deflect the direction of the blade and quickly go in for the kill. When fighting another samurai, they have alot of patience in their dueling, standing on their toes for quite a long time while waiting for their opponent to make a mistake. Effective on 1v1, but in a fast paced battlefield or skirmish they just get ganged easily.

And actually I wonder if Cecily would be better at serving Luke his meals rather than becoming a knight. Heck she is practicing her side slashes just for wielding the katana? There are only a few differences in all the swordplay around the world. I was taught in my martial arts classes when I was younger that there are only three major things affecting the sword-wielding fighter :

1. The opponent
2. The stance
3. The off-hand (if it is still attached to you)

Someone send her to infantry school! But then again, she can get Aria to do all the work for her if she becomes the latter's personal pillow......
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2009-10-25, 11:28   Link #660
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
With that information, I am starting to think that there is little use of that armor, probably as a psychological effect. Plate armor souldn't be so light if it is reinforced, so it must have been used only for deflecting slashes and arrows. A solid spear/halberd or thick-bladed sword could easily perforate the armor. Greatsword wielders like Lansknechts (though they will only exist 1-3 centuries later) could smash that armor with the mass of their swords.
That's like saying today's body armors are useless because they won't stop large caliber rifle rounds. They stopped a variety of bladed weapons and projectiles. They didn't appreciably slow down their wearers. What more could you ask?
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