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Old 2009-02-08, 04:53   Link #41
cyth
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Operators kicking each other in a public channel just undermines their authority, especially if arguing ensues in the open. Try to resolve problems in private, or maybe just don't give every staffer an op. It looks childish no matter how you slice it. If you're prepared to give ops to another, then you trust them and let them do what they please.
Of course the question remains why would you even want to ban anybody? Bans don't do anything. If folks are annoying, you put the channel on moderate (+m). Regulars should be voiced, anyone else can just ask for it in PM if they want to chat, and that's it. If regulars go berserk, you take away their voice, you piss them off to no end.
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Old 2009-02-08, 05:40   Link #42
TGEN
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By oper I meant IRC operator, not channel operator aka op or chanop. What chanops do in their channels is their business, not mine. Also, if you have a problem with the behaviour of some ops in some channel, don't go there; it's that easy.
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Old 2009-02-08, 05:55   Link #43
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneizel View Post
Are you a misandrist?
*laughs*
Couldn't be further from the truth.
I would be very close to being a misogynist rather.
Quote:
Rule #30: There are no girls on the internet
It's not like I'm surrounded by female fansubbers now to categorise a general group for an example, huh now?
To put it simply, I'd rather be in a staff chan full of guys with their e-penis wars, slagging off each other on IRC slang and objectifying women with picture links, a thousand times over being in a staff chan where girls are the majority.
If guys didn't drive me crazy somedays, life would be boring
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toua View Post
If folks are annoying, you put the channel on moderate (+m). Regulars should be voiced, anyone else can just ask for it in PM if they want to chat, and that's it. If regulars go berserk, you take away their voice, you piss them off to no end.
Would be the nice, sensible way to do it. Lots of people go:
'if you don't like the way things are run, don't go there.'
Kinda sucks when for most part you enjoy the company of other leechers in a channel, but there's always the few idiots (staff or leechers) that screw things up for others. You kinda want them dealt rather than have to leave, but to each their own.
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Last edited by Mystique; 2009-02-08 at 06:07.
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Old 2009-02-08, 06:07   Link #44
checkers
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I don't understand: you say IRC allows zero-delay communications, so therefore it is wrong to use it for slow communication?

The single thing that would improve the IRC user experience for all is for everyone to start using /away properly (ie, at all) (and not to use /nick instead, which is my particular bugaboo). That way you can see when someone is around or not.
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Old 2009-02-08, 06:15   Link #45
Mystique
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Originally Posted by checkers View Post
I don't understand: you say IRC allows zero-delay communications, so therefore it is wrong to use it for slow communication?
I don't think there is a set right or wrong way to use it, rather an 'ideal' way perhaps?
It was as npcomplete was saying, sometimes he feels the need to reply fast (so do I, tbh) because it is a form of instant messaging, but there are plenty of fansubbers who are more than happy to have email/forum like slow replies and communication over IRC.
To each their own, I guess.
What I do find difficult somedays is to pop into a fansub channel where you want to contact an OP about some issue on the website. (Or ask a question that the FAQ doesn't answer)
Can't PM an OP, most will ban you.
Drop a message in the channel, chances are that no one answers at all and if they do hours later, it's usually lost within a sea of server messages and other random chat, and an OP won't pm you either.
Things like that somedays make me think IRC's pretty useless, (may as well send an email) but it's more the behaviour and personal choice of each group and their members than the media itself.
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Old 2009-02-08, 06:31   Link #46
TGEN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
I don't think there is a set right or wrong way to use it, rather an 'ideal' way perhaps?
It was as npcomplete was saying, sometimes he feels the need to reply fast (so do I, tbh) because it is a form of instant messaging, but there are plenty of fansubbers who are more than happy to have email/forum like slow replies and communication over IRC.
To each their own, I guess.
What I do find difficult somedays is to pop into a fansub channel where you want to contact an OP about some issue on the website. (Or ask a question that the FAQ doesn't answer)
Can't PM an OP, most will ban you.
Drop a message in the channel, chances are that no one answers at all and if they do hours later, it's usually lost within a sea of server messages and other random chat, and an OP won't pm you either.
Things like that somedays make me think IRC's pretty useless, (may as well send an email) but it's more the behaviour and personal choice of each group and their members than the media itself.
People who ban you for PMing them aren't worth your time anyway. It doesn't make sense, much like awaynicks and other forms of public away, colourful spam messages, /amsg, /ame or /foreach, and all the other things people new to IRC tend to waste their time on. But I'd be surprised if indeed the majority of ops in fansub channels banned on PM. As for the sea of server messages, joins, parts and quits, you can perfectly ignore those. I know I do. IRC might be useless in the eyes of people new to it, but having been using it since '95, I still haven't seen an alternative beating it at its game.
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Old 2009-02-08, 06:47   Link #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
What I do find difficult somedays is to pop into a fansub channel where you want to contact an OP about some issue on the website. (Or ask a question that the FAQ doesn't answer)
Can't PM an OP, most will ban you.
But why would a change of medium help this? People are mean in forums too. I don't think the nature of IRC makes moderators any more evil than normal.
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Old 2009-02-08, 08:04   Link #48
getfresh
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Mystique: In short what it comes down to is that IRC is not for you, end of topic, move on, drop it FFS already.
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Old 2009-02-08, 08:36   Link #49
Mystique
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Originally Posted by checkers View Post
But why would a change of medium help this? People are mean in forums too. I don't think the nature of IRC makes moderators any more evil than normal.
As I said
Quote:
Things like that somedays make me think IRC's pretty useless, (may as well send an email) but it's more the behaviour and personal choice of each group and their members than the media itself.
Didn't mention a change of medium.
There are many ways of using IRC, as are there many ways IRC is used. The example I gave is a valid one, it happens as a case where not everyone uses it for instantaneous communication at least on the fansubbing front. I dunno much about regular chats for TV shows and other channels on the hundreds of servers that exist for this media, just that as you mentioned earlier, it isn't necessarily a 'right or wrong' way of using it, there are good and bad points to it, but some of the difficulties or 'getting used' to how things are run sometimes intimidate a few.
In relation to the topic question, perhaps it feels 'safer' to simply leech of bots and be on your merry way than to chat and hang out on IRC rooms with all the jazz involved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by getfresh View Post
Mystique: In short what it comes down to is that IRC is not for you, end of topic, move on, drop it FFS already.
Or simply as someone told me earlier in reference to IRC channels tho,
'Don't like what you see, simply leave.'
No one's got a gun to your head to read the stuff written here either.
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Old 2009-02-08, 23:56   Link #50
getfresh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Or simply as someone told me earlier in reference to IRC channels tho,
'Don't like what you see, simply leave.'
No one's got a gun to your head to read the stuff written here either.
yeah, and no one has a gun to your head to keep repeating the same argument OVER AND OVER.

Rule #2: don't make pointless statements~

Last edited by getfresh; 2009-02-09 at 01:40.
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Old 2009-02-09, 08:50   Link #51
npcomplete
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So not to beat a dead horse, but just to explain.. like what Mystique said
I feel a kind of urgency to reply right away -- to an ongoing conversation, NOT PMs. /away doesn't help here. Wouldn't it be strange to reply to something someone said a few hours ago in the channel? No one's gonna scroll back looking for the original exchange. Secondly you loose context. You don't have the ability to format nested quotations or responses, so you can't queue up and/or interleave a variety of responses together.

Anyways, that's my take. I'm not saying IRC doesn't work chatting. Just saying in response to the original OP that some people who just idle, leech and hardly chat may just prefer a different medium to really join a conversation... you know, like http://forums.animesuki.com
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Old 2009-02-09, 09:21   Link #52
getfresh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npcomplete View Post
So not to beat a dead horse, but just to explain.. like what Mystique said
I feel a kind of urgency to reply right away -- to an ongoing conversation, NOT PMs. /away doesn't help here. Wouldn't it be strange to reply to something someone said a few hours ago in the channel? No one's gonna scroll back looking for the original exchange. Secondly you loose context. You don't have the ability to format nested quotations or responses, so you can't queue up and/or interleave a variety of responses together.

Anyways, that's my take. I'm not saying IRC doesn't work chatting. Just saying in response to the original OP that some people who just idle, leech and hardly chat may just prefer a different medium to really join a conversation... you know, like http://forums.animesuki.com
Yeah, we were never debating that. It was "is IRC a dead medium" which I think enough ppl use it to say no it isn't dead or useless.
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Old 2009-02-09, 09:34   Link #53
Plorkyeran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npcomplete View Post
Wouldn't it be strange to reply to something someone said a few hours ago in the channel? No one's gonna scroll back looking for the original exchange.
Copy and paste the thing you're replying to, then type the reply. This is pretty standard and happens all the time.
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Old 2009-02-09, 16:04   Link #54
JediNight
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I think the biggest reason barely any discussion happens on IRC anymore, is that the population is just fragmented over so many channels on so many networks now. And to a lesser extent, that most people use torrents now instead of DCC bots.

For example: Back in 2001 there were only like 5-6 groups total releasing digitally, so it grouped everyone in the same place, and IRC was basically the only place to get newly released episodes. Bit Torrent didn't exist yet, few anime forums existed, and bandwidth was sparse so web downloads were nearly zero.

I remember having 3000 people in the channel on a release night, and trying to moderate the channel to prevent the bots from being flooded off was a nightmare. Can you imagine if we still had to use IRC as the primary distro method? Trying to cram 100k+ people into a channel for a Naruto release or something? =D
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Old 2009-02-10, 02:49   Link #55
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getfresh View Post
yeah, and no one has a gun to your head to keep repeating the same argument OVER AND OVER.

Rule #2: don't make pointless statements~
I would say how Mystique has organized his/her points is far from being pointless. As for repetition, in forums it's actually seen as a good thing in most cases considering the need for repeating is an everyday thing for us. As for "a gun to your head.." feel free not to read, or skip over Mystique if it's mere repetion of what has been said already. My conclusion: Rule #2 isn't broken by Mystique. However, in your case, your post is .........

The thread topic is for everyone regardless of the difference in views. Please play nice!
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Old 2009-02-10, 07:16   Link #56
getfresh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
I would say how Mystique has organized his/her points is far from being pointless. As for repetition, in forums it's actually seen as a good thing in most cases considering the need for repeating is an everyday thing for us. As for "a gun to your head.." feel free not to read, or skip over Mystique if it's mere repetion of what has been said already. My conclusion: Rule #2 isn't broken by Mystique. However, in your case, your post is .........

The thread topic is for everyone regardless of the difference in views. Please play nice!
Lol, way to go at me for my sarcastic remark made at myself being given a "Rule". I give up on this place...
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Old 2009-02-11, 00:23   Link #57
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getfresh View Post
Lol, way to go at me for my sarcastic remark made at myself being given a "Rule". I give up on this place...
Just like female population doesn't exist on internet, the concept of sarcasm on internet is a myth.
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Old 2009-02-23, 14:32   Link #58
DarkHonour
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Sometimes if nobody finds anything interesting to chat about, it can't be helped.

I don't talk much on IRC anyway. In fact, I hardly log on. The only time I go online is when I need to directly chat (in terms of work) instead of using email.
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Old 2009-02-25, 08:57   Link #59
seohadczy
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I think you're expecting too much from the community. People have real lives and aren't sitting at their computers 24/7, so there will often be times when IRC channels will be completely silent. At other times, though, plenty of discussion can happen, concerning anything at all. (Yesterday we were discussing operating systems in a certain channel and someone denied the existence of XP x64... much conversation ensued)
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