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Old 2009-04-30, 06:27   Link #201
Natsuki Hyuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruby-Moon View Post
Bi(美) means beauty, and shounen(少年) means boy(s) or young man(men), so bishounen simply means beautiful boys/young men. aka bishies
It seems that it's not the matter here, but whether the term bishounen exist for a genre of an anime...

I guess the poster before (akumakage) was referring to MxM context (yaoi, BL, whatever you can name from your head), which somehow got confused with bishounen...? ^_^;

And to answer the question, just like Adrestea said, there is nearly zero MxM context. Only if you squint your eyes and uses fair amount of imagination to get the little hints (unavoidable, since the creator was a Sasu/Naru doujinka. Old habits die hard. Very, VERY hard. ) then you'll get the so-called BL/yaoi hints. Though in reality, they are probably non-existent or only accidental subtext.

I found that I can enjoy the characters interaction, especially Ms(r). Mommy Chicken and Mr. Priest who shall not be a role model for fellow priests and Mr. Hawt Bishie slash Eternal Enemy, without having to imagine a yaoi interaction to be honest. Oh and I must confess that I am a rabid yaoi fans who will always slash anything that I think fascinating, be it yaoi or yuri.

(Although to be fair, this is an anime full of bishies. *coughtriopriestscough*)
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Old 2009-04-30, 07:19   Link #202
orion
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The dead one in the flashback was a bishie too.
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Old 2009-04-30, 15:09   Link #203
Aurelie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruby-Moon View Post
Bi(美) means beauty, and shounen(少年) means boy(s) or young man(men), so bishounen simply means beautiful boys/young men. aka bishies
I know what bishounen means, I just didn't know that was what they meant, I've never seen someone add a dash between bi and shounen before, everyone I've come across has spelt it bishounen. Originally I assumed they meant bisexual-shounen.
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Old 2009-04-30, 16:47   Link #204
Kirvee
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I just hope that no one is surprised when/if an actual shounen-ai/yaoi occurance happens in the story (not like some already has....).

@Someone on page 10 I can't remember: Oh yes, there are LOTS of very close male relationships in this series. So close that some of them have shared beds before, one of the times having both naked TeitoxHakuren, XD.
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Old 2009-04-30, 16:58   Link #205
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirvee View Post
I just hope that no one is surprised when/if an actual shounen-ai/yaoi occurance happens in the story (not like some already has....).

@Someone on page 10 I can't remember: Oh yes, there are LOTS of very close male relationships in this series. So close that some of them have shared beds before, one of the times having both naked TeitoxHakuren, XD.
I would be. The R1 anime distributor and amount of money R2 gets depends on this amount. More of this type of content means less money for them imo. The age rating for the title goes up. The odd of a TV airing go down. The distributor willing to handle the title goes down to prob one (Media Blasters). The manga rating in R1 (OT) goes against yaoi content. Also, Teito is a minor. People like to avoid another Christopher Handley who got busted for yaoi and lolicon.
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Old 2009-04-30, 17:02   Link #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga View Post
Same thing though... Wiki=Spoiler maniac]

And Mikage is already getting crazy amount of deathflags that if he were to avoid death it would like, Oh My GOD! He is alive?! O_o; () (Well, he is going to... But still~ Manga spoiler is forbidden here D; )
I avoid Wiki like a plaque with series that I really like.

LOL. I've had "OMG! He's still alive? " reactions before, mostly with Gundam series. But, yeah, Mikage seems to be marked for a tragic ending. I wonder how Ayanami found out that Mikage helped Teito escaped, since it might have looked rather convincing that he could have been a hostage of Teito.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akumakage View Post
Finished watching all four eps. I must say I don't usually watch animes that don't have at least one female be it main or secondary, and this series so far has done alright. Its been bumpy but alright. At 1st I got the naruto/sasuke vibe type of relationship but its gradually changing and wut it seem to portray is beyond just a friendship imo. Maybe its because of the lack of female or I'm mis-interpreting the translation or simply I'm over thinking, whichever the case its the 1st bi-sho....um... I mean very close male relationship I have ever seen.

I'm kinda in conflict with myself and was wondering if anyone could enlighten me, is the director trying to warn us that this is a bi-shounen series in the opening:

The main character is shown in the OP with a church steeple up his butt, and also holding his head and convulsing with "bad guy/ancient power be playin' with my brains" bishounen syndrome.

Your thoughts is very much appreciated.
Straight answer: No, this is not and will not have any shounen-ai themes in it - otherwise, I wouldn't be here.

I find it amusing how girls can have close relationships and not be seen as yuri but when a guy cries for another guy, a lot of fans scream BL. Men can have close and dear male friends, too. Maybe it's because they're all so freaking HOT!!
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Old 2009-04-30, 17:38   Link #207
Irkalla
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O wow, ep 4 was truly pleasing to the eyes, especially the Frau fanservice Also seems like next ep is a filler, or just some changes in script o_O Either way, I hope they will stay as truthful as possible to the manga.

About the bl factor....As somebody said in the sengoku basara thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash002 View Post
It's just men's love, nothing gay about it.
The ultimate manly form of friendship.


some more freebies
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Old 2009-04-30, 18:53   Link #208
Zu Ra
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Haven't watched episode 4 yet still on episode 3 . Kinds got caught up with some other anime . But what I have seen I enjoyed the anime so far . The character and environments have been most intriguing and entertaining so far . But it wouldnt kill the producers to have an Onsen episode only featuring nuns Fu Fu Fu

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaseka View Post
some more freebies

Its come out really nice kudos to you . But we demand MOAR Nuns . There is more tantalizing than seeing kwaii nuns doing there thing . And as I am well versed in Nun/Latin speak I can get there super secretive messages such as Confession Box 11 Pm which Teito unfortunately is too naive to understand
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Old 2009-04-30, 19:21   Link #209
akumakage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirvee View Post
I just hope that no one is surprised when/if an actual shounen-ai/yaoi occurance happens in the story (not like some already has....).

@Someone on page 10 I can't remember: Oh yes, there are LOTS of very close male relationships in this series. So close that some of them have shared beds before, one of the times having both naked TeitoxHakuren, XD.
Are you joking or for real? Naked? if you are for real then I don't know wut has to happen for some ppl here to say this series is a shounen-ai. Then again someone posted that pic from manga where 2 dudes seemed like kissing each other so I don't know maybe some people are oblivious when it comes to those stuff.
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Old 2009-04-30, 20:00   Link #210
cheesie
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Okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akumakage View Post
Are you joking or for real? Naked? if you are for real then I don't know wut has to happen for some ppl here to say this series is a shounen-ai. Then again someone posted that pic from manga where 2 dudes seemed like kissing each other so I don't know maybe some people are oblivious when it comes to those stuff.
-_-

That scene had nothing to do with this 'supposedly close friendship' between Teito and Hakuren.

Spoiler for minor bed scene spoilers:


As for the Mikage/Teito friendship, it is played up, and for very good reasons. Let's leave it at that.

People have been having amusing panic attacks over the BL/yaoi tags that they themselves put on the series when it doesn't even claim to be as such. Chiming in along with the rest of the manga readers, the packed bishounen factor does not make this series shounen-ai, yaoi, nor BL, as well as hinder it from having a strong story, and I do hope that rather than having your mind blown from two guy friends sharing a bed together, people may grow accustomed to actual guy friendships (which leads to development, who could guess that?)

For the record, I used to be a seasoned yaoi reader devouring 99% of the genre, so flinging to me accusations of 'You just aren't SEEING teh subtext, beech!!!lolol!' is really barking up the wrong tree.
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Old 2009-04-30, 20:17   Link #211
11strikes
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More thoughts on manga vs. anime adaptation:

Normally, if I've read the manga to any series, I'll prefer it over the anime nine times out of ten, but I think 07 Ghost just might turn into one of those rarer adaptations that improves on the original telling art-wise and then some.

The anime so far does a pretty good job smoothing out some of the transitions that were originally more disjointed in the manga--especially in the first few chapters, where I found myself having to guess what was going, and in what order. I do think the flow begins to improve from there though. Establishing Teito's "bromance" with Mikage is a good example of this, where the anime has added brief filler scenes to an otherwise line-for-line script, buffering the VERY early crisis in the series. This gives viewers slightly more of a chance to care about Mikage, whereas in the manga, I had a much harder time connecting with the rapidly unfolding drama of it all. This might not pose a problem for everyone: some readers/viewers find Mikage so likable from the start, they latch on immediately. I just, uh... happen to be one of those callous types that needs more reason to care. Ahaha. Of course, the whole crying and fist-bumping thing is really just not helping my cynicism at all. I understand the whole wanting to maintain a fangirl-friendly, ambiguously gay dynamic in this series, but any more of this "BFF 4EVA" cheese and I'm really going to have to throw my face into a trash compactor.

Of course, I still enjoy the manga very much, especially as the friendships between characters become less forced and more genuinely interesting. (Did I mention that I love Hakuren? No? Just checking. )

Anyway, if the anime continues following the manga in this fashion, I think it will turn out better than originally anticipated by... well, everyone. The world of 07 Ghost is already interesting and exciting enough on its own, as conceived by the mangaka. Its imaginative universe, comprised of flashing word-spells, flying vehicles, and grand cathedral-like settings, really does make it a great candidate for series animation.

...I'll leave commenting on the quality of the animation itself to someone else.
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Old 2009-04-30, 20:23   Link #212
Guardian Enzo
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I think the BL stuff is mostly just a matter of tone and style - I mean, who can look at "Pouty Teito" and not pick up a vibe? It's half joking, at least on my part. This one really seems to be a hard series to pin down on a specific genre anyway - it definitely combines elements of shounen and shoujo series.
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Old 2009-04-30, 20:37   Link #213
11strikes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I think the BL stuff is mostly just a matter of tone and style - I mean, who can look at "Pouty Teito" and not pick up a vibe? It's half joking, at least on my part. This one really seems to be a hard series to pin down on a specific genre anyway - it definitely combines elements of shounen and shoujo series.
That's what we call "pandering to the target demographic." XD You're right about the combination of shoujo and shounen elements, of course. Strictly speaking, however, it really is just your regular action/comedy/drama/fantasy fare. The homos are only there if you really want them to be.
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Old 2009-04-30, 20:52   Link #214
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I think the BL stuff is mostly just a matter of tone and style - I mean, who can look at "Pouty Teito" and not pick up a vibe? It's half joking, at least on my part. This one really seems to be a hard series to pin down on a specific genre anyway - it definitely combines elements of shounen and shoujo series.
Males pouting in Skip Beat! anime have a similar look and those guys aren't gay in the anime. It's a shoujo thing. The manga is marketed as shoujo in R1.
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Old 2009-04-30, 21:03   Link #215
cheesie
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Originally Posted by 11strikes View Post
I just, uh... happen to be one of those callous types that needs more reason to care. Ahaha. Of course, the whole crying and fist-bumping thing is really just not helping my cynicism at all. I understand the whole wanting to maintain a fangirl-friendly, ambiguously gay dynamic in this series, but any more of this "BFF 4EVA" cheese and I'm really going to have to throw my face into a trash compactor.
And here, I thought I was always the odd one out, seeing how I couldn't give a flying hoot about Mikage at all even if he does play a central role. The thing with Mikage is that he's defined his role as a plot device, or rather, an important key that laid out all the foundations, more clearly than the development of the character which everyone else enjoyed. It's understandable though, but certain times it grates on my nerves.
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Old 2009-04-30, 21:18   Link #216
11strikes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesie View Post
The thing with Mikage is that he's defined his role as a plot device, or rather, an important key that laid out all the foundations, more clearly than the development of the character which everyone else enjoyed.
Shhhhhhh... We must be wwary, wwwary quiet about this...
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Old 2009-04-30, 22:44   Link #217
Kirvee
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I fail to understand why some people are acting homophobic about there being BL.

I see the BL because I like BL that isn't actually in the BL category (I tried to read Loveless, I really did, but that.....no.....I won't say anymore). And I'm not saying it should be anything hardcore. I'm happy just to have obvious hints of BL, they don't HAVE to be kissing or anything to make me happy, that's what fanfics and fanart are for. Hugs and stuff like that are fine, and this series has lots of that.

And I know deep male relationships exist and I think there are some in this series too (Frau and Castor being an example). Also, to answer that thing about yuri, I do look at girls irl who practically cling to each other, smack each others butts, kiss each other, etc and wonder "Are they fooling with each other or do they dig each other?". Maybe I'm the only one, but that's just me.

And about the "none-to-pleased" comment....the fangirl part of me claims that denial always exists. Always.
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Old 2009-04-30, 23:00   Link #218
fertygo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaseka View Post
O wow, ep 4 was truly pleasing to the eyes, especially the Frau fanservice Also seems like next ep is a filler, or just some changes in script o_O Either way, I hope they will stay as truthful as possible to the manga.
can i claim this one ?

Well stay with manga plot maybe not wise decision too, because this anime only planned for 26 episode.
I hope for this series follow the plot of manga too, but if not, i can always switch to the manga
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Old 2009-04-30, 23:21   Link #219
Natsuki Hyuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesie View Post
And here, I thought I was always the odd one out, seeing how I couldn't give a flying hoot about Mikage at all even if he does play a central role. The thing with Mikage is that he's defined his role as a plot device, or rather, an important key that laid out all the foundations, more clearly than the development of the character which everyone else enjoyed. It's understandable though, but certain times it grates on my nerves.

Dear cheesie, your Mikage hate is so much evident.
XD Still haven't forgiven him at all, I see~

Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
Males pouting in Skip Beat! anime have a similar look and those guys aren't gay in the anime. It's a shoujo thing. The manga is marketed as shoujo in R1.
To be honest, this is serialized in Zero-Sum, right? Then I must say that it's not exactly shoujo. Most of Zero-Sum comics are labelled as Josei, which you can say as an older form of shoujo. And believe me, while josei generally portrays romantic relationship in complex form (Honey and Clover for the easiest example), somehow nearly all Zero-Sum comics have this josei genre... A bit differently. Like, you know... Somehow quite a lot of Zero-Sum mangas have a lot of actions (Loveless is no exception, Amatsuki is fairly obvious, di[e]ce for a bit more extreme on bloodbath and psychological punch, etc), so yeah The only thing that makes it obvious as Josei is the lack of furiganas in every. Single. Of. The. Series. *GRUMBLES* (Yeah, the recent RAWs I checked doesn't have furiganas, so let's say I forgot about this fact before.)

(Although I'm also more inclined to believe this is shoujo, since there are a lot of hawt guys, but still! Since this is not your "average school/magical bishies" but actually have plots (which I believe Zero-Sum comics are pretty impressive in), that is not revolving in Romance only, I think it's safe not to label this one shoujo that loosely.)
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Old 2009-04-30, 23:36   Link #220
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirvee View Post
I fail to understand why some people are acting homophobic about there being BL.

I see the BL because I like BL that isn't actually in the BL category (I tried to read Loveless, I really did, but that.....no.....I won't say anymore). And I'm not saying it should be anything hardcore. I'm happy just to have obvious hints of BL, they don't HAVE to be kissing or anything to make me happy, that's what fanfics and fanart are for. Hugs and stuff like that are fine, and this series has lots of that.

And I know deep male relationships exist and I think there are some in this series too (Frau and Castor being an example). Also, to answer that thing about yuri, I do look at girls irl who practically cling to each other, smack each others butts, kiss each other, etc and wonder "Are they fooling with each other or do they dig each other?". Maybe I'm the only one, but that's just me.

And about the "none-to-pleased" comment....the fangirl part of me claims that denial always exists. Always.

It either is or it isn't. "Hints of" is not a category unless you're in fujoshi-mode.

Guys can hug each other without having romantic feelings for each other.

I'm not homophobic by the way.
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