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Old 2009-01-26, 15:22   Link #21
Xellos-_^
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Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
OMFG i just remembered a H-manga where they called for 'extensive" sex-ed in classrooms to repopulate japan... that author knew it was going to happen someday....

or they can start accepting immigrants.....
i have it too
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Old 2009-01-26, 15:32   Link #22
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That's not a bad idea after all.
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Old 2009-01-26, 15:50   Link #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
Really? I thought Japan took care of their elders very well.
Its not really the government that took care of the elderly it was the family it was natural. So Japan never came up with SS or an equivalent to Medicare and there in lies the problem. With current social problems now in Japan who has the time to watch after elderly? People are too busy working, so they are not home and since they are not getting married who has financial resources and the time to look after them a single person doesn't. So they either end up in special homes or believe it not homeless the young are not taking parents in anymore. As much as Japan clings to tradition time has shown weather you want change or not eventually it comes and if your not prepared for your social and economic structures come crumbling down around you making for very angry citizens.

I could use my company to go work in Japan if i wanted too. I work for Mercedes Benz and there are dealerships that cater to English speaking customers who happen to live in Japan. But i would not make nearly as much money as i do here in the states or in say in Europe under the Austrian motor group. If Japan was more open about foreign workers and it was not such a damn headache i would consider it.

The Japanese have no choice they need to change the way their infrastructure works or in 15-20 years they are up a shit creek without a.........well you get my point.
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Old 2009-01-26, 16:17   Link #24
0utf0xZer0
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Undoubtedly there are some factions in the government have a "pure race myth" issue, but really I think the bigger issue is protection of their culture and etiquette.

Europeans are experiencing first hand what happens when you let groups of immigrants in who have substantially different world views and then fail to integrate them mentally into the prime culture.
America has problems at times with that at the edges but a great many of its immigrants over history understand they've come here because things sucked at home and they should leave some of their cultural baggage behind.
I think it would be interesting to know what separates successful integrations of new immigrants from unsuccessful ones. From what I hear, for example, Turkish immigrants in Holland are well integrated, while more recent Morrocan immigrants are not. Why is that?

I do know that one article I read for my Metropolitan governance class expressed concern that the flight of the middle class to suburbs in Montreal would have an impact on integration of immigrants (who I guess tend to live in more inner city neighbourhoods), which was kind of interesting.

Last edited by Skyfall; 2009-01-28 at 08:48.
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Old 2009-01-26, 16:27   Link #25
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Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
I think it would be interesting to know what separates successful integrations of new immigrants from unsuccessful ones. From what I hear, for example, Turkish immigrants in Holland are well integrated, while more recent Morrocan immigrants are not. Why is that?

As incredibly misogynistic as some H doujins are, I'm hoping the "progress through censorship" movement doesn't really catch on in Japan.
I don't think you can say that there are successful or unsuccessful immigrations country wise.
Rather this depends on the person who is immigrating, how open-minded said person is, especially towards foreign cultures and values.

As for censorship in Japan, I also hope that the government won't let organizations such as UNICEF,
who brought up the recent loli-issue, force or coax the government into tightening regulations and laws on censorship of visual art.
As it seems the current prime minister is not going to let them do that though, luckily enough.
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Old 2009-01-26, 16:35   Link #26
Terrestrial Dream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
Its not really the government that took care of the elderly it was the family it was natural. So Japan never came up with SS or an equivalent to Medicare and there in lies the problem. With current social problems now in Japan who has the time to watch after elderly? People are too busy working, so they are not home and since they are not getting married who has financial resources and the time to look after them a single person doesn't. So they either end up in special homes or believe it not homeless the young are not taking parents in anymore. As much as Japan clings to tradition time has shown weather you want change or not eventually it comes and if your not prepared for your social and economic structures come crumbling down around you making for very angry citizens.

I could use my company to go work in Japan if i wanted too. I work for Mercedes Benz and there are dealerships that cater to English speaking customers who happen to live in Japan. But i would not make nearly as much money as i do here in the states or in say in Europe under the Austrian motor group. If Japan was more open about foreign workers and it was not such a damn headache i would consider it.

The Japanese have no choice they need to change the way their infrastructure works or in 15-20 years they are up a shit creek without a.........well you get my point.
That is to bad, I really think that elders in Japan should be taken care better after what they accomplished.
Also isn't the lack of foreign workers in Japan caused by difficulty of getting job in Japan? I would think that getting more foreign workers in the country would worsen the situation if that was the case.
As for the pure race thing, well I think unlike the West, most Easter Asian country have lack of interaction with foreign people hence they tend to be very racist. It would be hard to change the mindset like that.
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Old 2009-01-26, 16:36   Link #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windstar!~ View Post
I don't think you can say that there are successful or unsuccessful immigrations country wise.
Rather this depends on the person who is immigrating, how open-minded said person is, especially towards foreign cultures and values.
Individual willingness to adopt elements of a new culture is important, but it seems to me like a lot of westerners overestimate the influence of individual decisions in this sort of thing. It's kind of hard to deny the influence that social factors within the host country have. That's why I brought up the Montreal article... how are you supposed to have people integrate into the host culture if they have little contact with its members?
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Old 2009-01-26, 16:47   Link #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
That is to bad, I really think that elders in Japan should be taken care better after what they accomplished.
Also isn't the lack of foreign workers in Japan caused by difficulty of getting job in Japan? I would think that getting more foreign workers in the country would worsen the situation if that was the case.
As for the pure race thing, well I think unlike the West, most Easter Asian country have lack of interaction with foreign people hence they tend to be very racist. It would be hard to change the mindset like that.
I dont know if having more foreign workers would make things worse. Regardless, Japan wont have enough employees to fill jobs. Mainly, jobs that we take for granted the trash guy, the people who maintain our sewer system, ect ect. We live in a world now that is truly global no country can survive on its on. Eventually Japan will not be able to depend on its own people to fill in jobs and weather they like it or not they are going to have relax immigration laws.

If they are worried about problems make mandatory social classes for immigrants like Vexx said. So they learn how to integrate in Japanese culture and make the transition smoother. I can understand that the Japanese do not want to lose their traditions and their sense of self. I believe if you are moving to another country you need to integrate yourself learn the culture, learn the language learn the customs. Dont expect native people to bend to your will in their own country.

As for Eastern Asian countries and racism most of those people have never met a foreigner before and tend to believe stereotypes. Changing their mindset over night is impossible but like i said the world is ever changing and eventually these kind of mindsets will for the most part start to change. Take the internet for instance look at how much contact people from other countries have with one another that alone has changed many things.
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Old 2009-01-26, 16:47   Link #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
Individual willingness to adopt elements of a new culture is important, but it seems to me like a lot of westerners overestimate the influence of individual decisions in this sort of thing. It's kind of hard to deny the influence that social factors within the host country have. That's why I brought up the Montreal article... how are you supposed to have people integrate into the host culture if they have little contact with its members?
A valid point there, here in my country for instance there are a lot of Turkish immigrants and immigrants from former Yugoslavia.
There is only a low percentage of people who can actually be integrated, it isn't their fault - it's our fault.
Our government is mostly xenophobic, as well as people in our country. There's racism everywhere and nobody seems to accept these people as foreign residents.
Life sure is tough for immigrants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
I dont know if having more foreign workers would make things worse. Regardless, Japan wont have enough employees to fill jobs. Mainly, jobs that we take for granted the trash guy, the people who maintain our sewer system, ect ect. We live in a world now that is truly global no country can survive on its on. Eventually Japan will not be able to depend on its own people to fill in jobs and weather they like it or not they are going to have relax immigration laws.

If they are worried about problems make mandatory social classes for immigrants like Vexx said. So they learn how to integrate in Japanese culture and make the transition smoother. I can understand that the Japanese do not want to lose their traditions and their sense of self. I believe if you are moving to another country you need to integrate yourself learn the culture, learn the language learn the customs. Dont expect native people to bend to your will in their own country.

As for Eastern Asian countries and racism most of those people have never met a foreigner before and tend to believe stereotypes. Changing their mindset over night is impossible but like i said the world is ever changing and eventually these kind of mindsets will for the most part start to change. Take the internet for instance look at how much contact people from other countries have with one another that alone has changed many things.
It's a shame that many immigrants don't think as intelligent as you do though,
many seem to prefer relying on their culture and take it for granted that they will be able to carry out their traditions and cultural things in the country they come to.
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Old 2009-01-26, 17:00   Link #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
I dont know if having more foreign workers would make things worse. Regardless, Japan wont have enough employees to fill jobs. Mainly, jobs that we take for granted the trash guy, the people who maintain our sewer system, ect ect. We live in a world now that is truly global no country can survive on its on. Eventually Japan will not be able to depend on its own people to fill in jobs and weather they like it or not they are going to have relax immigration laws.

If they are worried about problems make mandatory social classes for immigrants like Vexx said. So they learn how to integrate in Japanese culture and make the transition smoother. I can understand that the Japanese do not want to lose their traditions and their sense of self. I believe if you are moving to another country you need to integrate yourself learn the culture, learn the language learn the customs. Dont expect native people to bend to your will in their own country.

As for Eastern Asian countries and racism most of those people have never met a foreigner before and tend to believe stereotypes. Changing their mindset over night is impossible but like i said the world is ever changing and eventually these kind of mindsets will for the most part start to change. Take the internet for instance look at how much contact people from other countries have with one another that alone has changed many things.
i agree... it sometimes pisses me off to see things in english/spanish in my country i'm not racist.... but i worked my butt off too intergrate and learn english... why shouldn't they.... that is why people are hostile towards immagrants... me and my friend went out with these sisters that kept speaking spanish to each other when me and my friend start speaking our native toung they get pissed off.... wtf


IMO i think if people want to move to japan it is for the experience rather economical gain so they would gladly intergrate with the traditions.
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Old 2009-01-26, 17:30   Link #31
Mystique
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ah, an oldie but goodie with me. I kinda already poured over the issue at uni/in my own time, so here's the BBC feature article for more research if anyone is interested in following about it a little more.

Feature article
They ran... 5 other articles on the topic, look on the right under 'features', the other stories are there.
Quote:
Gender issues key to birth rate
Trial run for migrant workers
Funding the ageing society
Revising Japan's constitution
'Forced confessions' in Japan
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Last edited by Mystique; 2009-01-26 at 18:35.
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Old 2009-01-26, 17:41   Link #32
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Originally Posted by King Lycan View Post
I always thought japan was overpopulated . >_>
It's the Tokyo Stereotype along with the Generation Y way of thinking. Most of us here belong in the Generation Y. They are more intunned to personal freedom along with the success of bring about their future, meaning they are the work-a-holics >.<

It's Career > Family/Friends
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Old 2009-01-26, 17:50   Link #33
Solais
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Maybe they should make a law, that every immigrant should first do an 'integration course' or what, and they could only immigrate if they pass that. Or what. But maybe, that would made immigration worse than now. <--- [don't have much experience with the issue >.<]
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Old 2009-01-26, 18:09   Link #34
ganbaru
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Originally Posted by windstar!~ View Post
It's a shame that many immigrants don't think as intelligent as you do though,
many seem to prefer relying on their culture and take it for granted that they will be able to carry out their traditions and cultural things in the country they come to.
It's not that simple. Changing of country is a very big choc and the adaptation might be difficult. Their traditions/culture represent for them some stability ,something than they know face to the vast unknow of their new country.
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Old 2009-01-26, 18:33   Link #35
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Japanese guys are so career orientated that they can't unleash their hormones upon their wives, which is why high school girls have such an easy time making money off businessmen lol.

This should be played on all the major Japanese radio stations if they really want to get babies made.


http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=iTW8oUV8Aq0
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Old 2009-01-26, 18:48   Link #36
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Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
It's not that simple. Changing of country is a very big choc and the adaptation might be difficult. Their traditions/culture represent for them some stability ,something than they know face to the vast unknow of their new country.
I know it's not easy, but if you choose to leave your country to find new luck in another you should also be ready to accept their values and culture.
Making the decision to leave everything behind is probably one of the hardest ever and if somebody makes that certain decision they should also be able to get used to their new way of living.
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Old 2009-01-26, 18:49   Link #37
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LMAO i cant believe you posted that but im laughing so hard right now as i imagine some middle age white color Japanese guys face while while watching this video.

The houndgang may be weird but they make a good point.

Hell in the US we have a hard enough time trying to get teenagers to keep their pants ON>
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Old 2009-01-26, 19:07   Link #38
Terrestrial Dream
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Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
If they are worried about problems make mandatory social classes for immigrants like Vexx said. So they learn how to integrate in Japanese culture and make the transition smoother. I can understand that the Japanese do not want to lose their traditions and their sense of self. I believe if you are moving to another country you need to integrate yourself learn the culture, learn the language learn the customs. Dont expect native people to bend to your will in their own country.
To be honest I am against trying to integrate immigrants through social classes, its difficult and it will be costly imo, and it will discourages immigrants from coming to the country. But only for the first generation anyway, they should focus on keeping the immigrations in and make the second generation integrate in to their own society that would be much smoother and easier.



Quote:
Originally Posted by windstar!~ View Post
I know it's not easy, but if you choose to leave your country to find new luck in another you should also be ready to accept their values and culture.
Making the decision to leave everything behind is probably one of the hardest ever and if somebody makes that certain decision they should also be able to get used to their new way of living.
Actually most immigrants don't really adopt to their new environment instead they create their own communities with their own race. Example in Flushing Queens in New York most of the store signs are in Korean or Chinese, though I am not sure its the same case in Japan.

edit: here is a great example, at first glance you would never guess that is America.
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Old 2009-01-26, 19:10   Link #39
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Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
Actually most immigrants don't really adopt to their new environment instead they create their own communities with their own race. Example in Flushing Queens in New York most of the store signs are in Korean or Chinese, though I am not sure its the same case in Japan.
On the streets, buildings are signposted in Portuguese.
South of the station, Portuguese-language billboards offer driving lessons and bank loans, while shops sell Brazilian DVDs.
On the surface, Hamamatsu appears to be embracing its new arrivals.

But rows over things like loud music, parking spaces and rubbish are daily causes of friction.
"Their culture and customs are different," says Ms Murakami.
"Japan has various rules and they don't know the rules, so this leads to tensions."

-- BBC News
Probably one of the reasons they don't want to change their immigration policy, rather try to solve the internal problems.
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Old 2009-01-26, 19:32   Link #40
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
i don't plan to stay there but if the Japanese man are either not willing or unable to do thier duty. I am more then ready to help out
Lol was going to say something like this myself.

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