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Old 2009-01-27, 04:37   Link #61
sa547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -KarumA- View Post
I'll correct you on that, that area is near the Asian neighbourhood but they are not linked to each other
the sex shops etc are not owned by Asians at all rofl and you don't see any (perhaps a few if you look around for a long time) Asians posing behind the windows there
I went a lot to the Asian neighbourhood thought eh funny thing about it is you have all these restaurants and hotels and one street away is the sex neighbourhood with their hookers and coffee shops but that neighbourhood has nothing to do with the Asian community that lives a street further the majority there has restaurants/cafe's, Asian supermarkets and souvenir shops
Thanks for correcting, I remember that you're in the Netherlands.

Indeed, over the years, despite the fact that there's what appears to be an endless amount of pr0n coming from Japan (most especially on the Internet -- you know what I mean), I still find it surprising that the government complains about their low birth rate.

I agree with the obvious fact that the hard work ethic is superior than true procreation, although from time to time some of those miserable (and rejected) male singletons/workaholics watch DVDs every night while they have Mary Palmer to comfort their members, or have an expensive Orient Doll Jewel II to penetrate with.
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Old 2009-01-27, 04:58   Link #62
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
This move by the government is good.

Japan is overpopulated, its cultural rules are very rigid, and the people don't want foreigners coming in anyway. Saying that they should open up their nation when they don't want to is stupid. Why does every single country have to give up its culture just to "modernize?" Japan has a very unique situation and it would suck to see it ruined just so they can keep their population the same. Also, I doubt that many people would want to emigrate from China or Korea anyway.

I realize that Japan has a population issue here. But that's their own fault for not caring about having children, which is a result of their own stupidity. There will be problems as the people age, but only then will people learn to correct themselves.
China people constitute one of the largest immigrant groups in Japan. Most immigrants are Asian.

Give up Japanese culture? Their system is already such that you either conform if you are an immigrant in Japan or you end up stuck at the bottom. Heck they're like the biggest cultural powerhouse after the US. I understand their worries but if it's fellow Asians with similar cultures, what's there to be afraid of apart from racist issues?

From what I see anyway, the younger generation is on the whole for the idea of greater integration with East and Southeast Asia

Last edited by Cosmic Eagle; 2009-01-27 at 05:32.
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Old 2009-01-27, 07:25   Link #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
This move by the government is good.

Japan is overpopulated, its cultural rules are very rigid, and the people don't want foreigners coming in anyway. Saying that they should open up their nation when they don't want to is stupid. Why does every single country have to give up its culture just to "modernize?" Japan has a very unique situation and it would suck to see it ruined just so they can keep their population the same. Also, I doubt that many people would want to emigrate from China or Korea anyway.

I realize that Japan has a population issue here. But that's their own fault for not caring about having children, which is a result of their own stupidity. There will be problems as the people age, but only then will people learn to correct themselves.
I wouldn't call it stupidity, this system worked for a long time and this is probably the first time they're facing it that extreme.
The problem is that they'll need to find a compromise. They'll have to introduce laws granting employees more free time or their whole company attitude needs a re-think.
I think the best solution would be to start working on their internal issues and not pushing Japan's doors open that quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Give up Japanese culture? Their system is already such that you either conform if you are an immigrant in Japan or you end up stuck at the bottom. Heck they're like the biggest cultural powerhouse after the US.
That's a really good point there, but one day - when masses of people flood the country - this will also no longer work and I think that's what they're really afraid of.
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Old 2009-01-27, 07:40   Link #64
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windstar!~ View Post
I wouldn't call it stupidity, this system worked for a long time and this is probably the first time they're facing it that extreme.
The problem is that they'll need to find a compromise. They'll have to introduce laws granting employees more free time or their whole company attitude needs a re-think.
I think the best solution would be to start working on their internal issues and not pushing Japan's doors open that quickly.



That's a really good point there, but one day - when masses of people flood the country - this will also no longer work and I think that's what they're really afraid of.
That's why all nations should regulate but not too tightly. Globalization is good but it must be carefully looked after.
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Old 2009-01-27, 08:01   Link #65
ZephyrLeanne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
China people constitute one of the largest immigrant groups in Japan. Most immigrants are Asian.
It's actually a WWII [or before] thing. These Chinese/Koreans are either the descendants of PoWs or they were moved to Japan as hard labour during WWII, or during the time Japan colonized Taiwan and Korea.



Quote:
From what I see anyway, the younger generation is on the whole for the idea of greater integration with East and Southeast Asia
Which part of Japan is that? Kansai seems to think different.
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Old 2009-01-27, 08:20   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
This move by the government is good.

Japan is overpopulated, its cultural rules are very rigid, and the people don't want foreigners coming in anyway. Saying that they should open up their nation when they don't want to is stupid. Why does every single country have to give up its culture just to "modernize?" Japan has a very unique situation and it would suck to see it ruined just so they can keep their population the same. Also, I doubt that many people would want to emigrate from China or Korea anyway.

I realize that Japan has a population issue here. But that's their own fault for not caring about having children, which is a result of their own stupidity. There will be problems as the people age, but only then will people learn to correct themselves.
Im curious did you actually read the article? No one is telling the Japanese to give up its culture and its very modernized having the second largest economy in the world. The problem is maintaining enough people to keep the country going and Japan is not doing it because of social issues To say its their own stupidity is wrong very biased and extremely narrow minded. Like it or not Japan' future effects YOU as well as we live in global economy. Japan has some tough decisions to make to get their population going and to keep their infrastructure stable. Eventually Japan will have to open up to fill in certain jobs but that can control it and maintain how many foreigners come into the country each year if they chose to do so. Also, its not like all Japanese dont want foreigners in the country its mainly ultra nationalistic old stalwarts in the government whose time are dwindling as they get older the younger generation is much more sensible.

By the way another reason for the declined in births is more women are entering the work place and choosing not to just remain home as wives and mothers is that stupid?
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Old 2009-01-27, 08:57   Link #67
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Originally Posted by ShimatheKat View Post
It's actually a WWII [or before] thing. These Chinese/Koreans are either the descendants of PoWs or they were moved to Japan as hard labour during WWII, or during the time Japan colonized Taiwan and Korea.





Which part of Japan is that? Kansai seems to think different.
Largely friends in Tokyo.
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Old 2009-01-27, 09:25   Link #68
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You know, with all the current and forecoming major laid offs as well as pay cut, don't you think the Japanese people will be resorting to the most primitive and animalistic (as well as free) form of entertainment ?
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Old 2009-01-27, 09:40   Link #69
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Woah buddy, don't flame me. It was an old report by Aunty Beeb, so direct your criticisms to her instead.

And there can be such things as a savings glut, especially when interest rates are effectively zero, as they are in Japan. If it weren't for a decade of deflation, all those savings would have been depreciating in value over the years. So, ironically, the more the Japanese saved, the poorer they got in real terms.
Sorry, I didn't mean for it to sound like a flame. I thought it was pretty clear I directed it at the article since I quoted it. It's not something that just pops up once in a while, a lot of the "news" I've been reading bashes savings.

And no, in a deflation the cash you have on hand gains value. The return is greater if you hold on to your money since you can get the good for a cheaper price down the road, that is why deflation spirals. Costs depreciate so the cash you have buys more as time passed.

Money that is not spent re-enters the system when it is lent out to businesses or invested. Consumption was never intended to be the driving force behind the economy since it is really just the purchase of crap.

The problem only occurs when people do not expect deflation and are therefore not properly hedged, and this leads to a cascade...

EDIT: Better way to think about it, if the bank is charging you 0%, but the supply is decreasing at 4% per year, your money will still be worth more even though the amount has stayed the same. If a bank charges you a premium to keep your money...then well, I'd think you'd just buy a giant safe and dig a whole deep in your basement instead.

The deflation in Japan is what comes about when you try to hide the debt and create zombie banks.

Last edited by Cluelessly; 2009-01-27 at 09:56.
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Old 2009-01-27, 10:02   Link #70
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Except that Japan got caught in a deflationary spiral that discouraged both spending and retail investment. As the saying goes, all things in moderation, including the saving of cash — after a certain point, it becomes either over-cautious or plain stinginess.

Which isn't directly related to the depopulation problem in Japan. In a way, the country is a massive case study studied carefully by the rest of an equally greying industrialised world. By choosing not to open its floodgates to immigration, Japan forces itself to rely increasingly on technology to raise productivity levels and maintain long-term economic growth. In the meantime, older Japanese delay retirement and work longer, and thus do their bit to slow the inevitable economic decline resulting from a falling population.

The underlying lesson is that, in the past, we've neglected to study the effect of population growth on economic development. For example, the rapid expansion of the US economy from the 1950s onwards was as much caused by the post-war baby boom as it was by spare industrial capacity.

From a social geographic point of view, we now see a trend where industrialising economies would experience rapid development alongside quick but gradually slowing population growth. Past a point of equilibrium, higher costs of living and social changes will inevitably force a country's population to return to sustainable levels.

That, apparently, is the phenomena unfolding in Japan right now, and will eventually happen in countries such as China and India, two to three generations down the road. Unless, of course, massive immigration disrupts the equation.
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Old 2009-01-27, 10:07   Link #71
Cluelessly
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Except that Japan got caught in a deflationary spiral that discouraged both spending and retail investment. As the saying goes, all things in moderation, including the saving of cash — after a certain point, it becomes either over-cautious or plain stinginess.

Which isn't directly related to the depopulation problem in Japan. In a way, the country is a massive case study studied carefully by the rest of the equally greying industrialised world. By choosing not to open its floodgates to immigration, Japan forces itself to rely increasingly on technology to raise productivity levels so as to achieve any kind of long-term productivity growth. In the meantime, older Japanese delay retirement and work longer, and thus do their bit to slow the inevitable economic decline due to a falling population.

The underlying lesson is that, in the past, we've neglected to study the effect of population growth on economic development. For example, the rapid expansion of the US economy from the 1950s onwards was as much caused by post-war baby boom as it was with spare industrial capacity.

From a social geographic point of view, we now see a trend where industrialising economies would experience rapid development alongside quick but gradually slowing population growth. Past the point of equilibrium, high costs of living and social changes will inevitably force the country's population to return to a sustainable level.

That, apparently, is what is unfolding in Japan right now, and will eventually happen in countries such as China and India two to three generations down the road. Unless, of course, massive immigration disrupts the equation.
There is a balancing point. Very low interest rates will entice expansion. Just like inflationary spirals are broken in a natural setting, deflationary spirals are also broken. It is only with improper intervention that the spiral becomes seemingly infinite. The savings is really a reaction to previous consumption. Trying to spark consumption again is an attempt to reflate and it really can't be achieved.

This is off-topic, if you want to discuss it in more detail PM me.

EDIT: Consider, it is impossible to save in excess, but it is possible to consume in excess if your consumption is the result of debt. When that happens everything must return to the equilibrium.
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Old 2009-01-27, 12:12   Link #72
bahamut zero
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The more advanced you get, the less people get born because of the earned prosperity.

Isn't this the same for each country?
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Old 2009-01-27, 12:21   Link #73
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i am betting japan will solve it is aging pop problem with cyborgs and chobits. You just there is secret japanese project to created cyborg bodies to house the human brain and have a army robotic slaves in the mean to tide them over till the cyborgs are ready.
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Old 2009-01-27, 12:26   Link #74
ZephyrLeanne
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Largely friends in Tokyo.
There we go. Tokyo. Kansai [actually the whole of WEST JAPAN] is the opposite of Tokyo, really. And West Japan is like 1/3 of Japan.

Anyways,
Quote:
The more advanced you get, the less people get born because of the earned prosperity.

Isn't this the same for each country?
True, but for a different reason. Poor countries are usually agricultural, they need more hands on the field. Whereas in rich nations, they need less labour since there's machinery to help out. Of course, if your nation is small, like Singapore, you would have to cut population. Like just 10 years ago, the 4th child and later would not receive education subsidy and grants at all. 20 years ago, it was the 3rd, and 30 years ago it was the 2nd - Singapore had a one-child policy before in the founding years ['65-'75].

Irony is, now they have a dwindling native population... all while having an increasing population. The reason? Migrants from other lands.
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Old 2009-01-27, 21:21   Link #75
aohige
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Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
You know, with all the current and forecoming major laid offs as well as pay cut, don't you think the Japanese people will be resorting to the most primitive and animalistic (as well as free) form of entertainment ?
If we did that, there will be awful lot of people arrested for statutory rape.





....I kid, I kid!! (no pun inten.... oh screw it, fully intended)
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Old 2009-01-27, 21:56   Link #76
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
i don't plan to stay there but if the Japanese man are either not willing or unable to do thier duty. I am more then ready to help out
I entered the thread to say the same thing. I figured people would have beaten me to it.

I'd like to help solve the population problem, too. OwO
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Old 2009-01-27, 21:59   Link #77
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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
I entered the thread to say the same thing. I figured people would have beaten me to it.

I'd like to help solve the population problem, too. OwO
If it was to raise the birthrate who would disagree?
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Old 2009-01-27, 22:00   Link #78
ZephyrLeanne
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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
I entered the thread to say the same thing. I figured people would have beaten me to it.

I'd like to help solve the population problem, too. OwO
I guess the gaijin image of the problem isn't accurate.
It's the women who want to feel independent. Therefore, the women don't want to have babies either, 'cause it'd spell the end of their career.
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Old 2009-01-27, 22:29   Link #79
guest
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What do you mean by "the the fastest aging society in the world?" I mean, all the humans age at the same rate, right? How can you age faster than others?
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Old 2009-01-27, 22:46   Link #80
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What do you mean by "the the fastest aging society in the world?" I mean, all the humans age at the same rate, right? How can you age faster than others?
It simply means the median age of Japan is the highest in the world. Japan is declining in the fraction of the population composed of children.
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