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Old 2013-10-18, 13:22   Link #2221
Warm Mist
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Originally Posted by ultimatemegax View Post
Since Hyouka, Takemoto has worked on Chuunibyou episode 10, Tamako episode 8, Free! episode 8, and Kyoukai episodes 2/4 as episode director/storyboarder. He may be working on his own project, but we've not heard anything about him working as a full director again since Hyouka.
I guess it's worth noting that Takemoto isn't the most prolific director. He had to take over Lucky Star in 2007, directed the Haruhi movie in 2010 (with Ishihara as chief director, and sharing storyboarding duties with him and Noriko Takao), and then he had Hyouka in 2012. Personally I wouldn't consider Lucky Star or Disappearance to be 'his' shows.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC Hyouka was a sort of pet-project for him which he had wanted to adapt for a long time. Unless he has another of those up his sleeve, I don't think it's likely we'll see a show directed by him in 2014. Maybe 2015 with luck...
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Old 2013-10-18, 16:24   Link #2222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warm Mist View Post
I guess it's worth noting that Takemoto isn't the most prolific director. He had to take over Lucky Star in 2007, directed the Haruhi movie in 2010 (with Ishihara as chief director, and sharing storyboarding duties with him and Noriko Takao), and then he had Hyouka in 2012. Personally I wouldn't consider Lucky Star or Disappearance to be 'his' shows.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC Hyouka was a sort of pet-project for him which he had wanted to adapt for a long time. Unless he has another of those up his sleeve, I don't think it's likely we'll see a show directed by him in 2014. Maybe 2015 with luck...
I hope he does it at some point though. Hyouka was the strongest show I've seen out of KyoAni in quite a while (outside of sequels) and would love to see more stuff in the same vein. And, while they're at it, bring Gatou in to handle series composition again. Or better yet: make more Full Metal Panic alread... *gets shot*
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Old 2013-10-18, 17:01   Link #2223
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Yeah, I think Gatoh is the primary reason why Hyouka ended up being so good, to be honest, even with it (still) being the best-looking KyoAni show.
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Old 2013-10-19, 21:56   Link #2224
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Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat View Post
EDIT: Forgot to make a point about Kyoani anime originals. Just stop... I don't know if they saw likes of PA Works, Production IG, Sunrise or A-1 Pictures heavily investing in the area and wanted a piece of the market share but ugh... they still have a long way to learn.
Considering the lack of fans for the source material and the vast amount of changes done for the anime, Chuunibyou and Free might as well be very successful original anime productions anyway.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Does KyoAni not have the power to tell their directors and series composers to be faithful to the source material?
Why would they want to be faithful to from most reports mediocre source material? As shown by Chuunibyou and Free they will try and take something mediocre and make it into a success, and no matter how you want too look @ them critically they succeeded at doing that. And while they may be failing with KnK it's not like the source material is anything great and 2 out of 3 is still good.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Sorry, you put your name on it, you bear responsibility. When BP oil has an oil spill because some idiots made a mistake , are we going to say, "oh it's not BP's fault, just some random managers and maintenance people in the company." It's their staff, their responsibility as a whole. They are a brand.
Exactly.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I'm talking about their works up through Hyouka.

Look, I've had countless conversations about KyoAni on Anime Suki, and a point that was frequently raised was how unusually faithful KyoAni is to the source material. This is something that KyoAni's fans stressed a lot in years past, and it was a valid point.

Perhaps that's something that started changing with Chuunibyou, and is continuing to change with KnK, but I'm definitely not lying or misremembering here. KyoAni had been praised heavily for source material faithfulness in the past.
And talking about their works up to Hyouka is utterly pointless since they never adapted from a LN property they own prior to that. If you can't see the difference between Chuu2, Free, KnK, small time lns they own compared to stuff like Kadokawa owned FMP and Haruhi than smh.

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Originally Posted by darkchibi07 View Post
They can pull a period piece out of the setting which would be a very nice change of pace for KyoAni instead of situating it on Japan.
They'll change it just watch. /still bitter about no Rome for TM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Yeah, I think Gatoh is the primary reason why Hyouka ended up being so good, to be honest, even with it (still) being the best-looking KyoAni show.
Gatoh's so good, everything he has done with KyoAni has been ace, even his 3 LS episodes stand out from the pack. A lot of people like to point @ episode 5 as being proof that Yamakan being fired was the right move, nah, it was much better because it was a Gatoh penned episode.
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Old 2013-10-19, 22:39   Link #2225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Why would they want to be faithful to from most reports mediocre source material?
KyoAni derives brand strength from how its perceived as a faithful adapter of source material. It's not something they should want to squander, imo.


Quote:
As shown by Chuunibyou and Free they will try and take something mediocre...
It's just your opinion that they're mediocre. It's not some objective truth.


Quote:
And while they may be failing with KnK it's not like the source material is anything great and 2 out of 3 is still good.
Again, that's just your subjective opinion.


Quote:
And talking about their works up to Hyouka is utterly pointless...
Of course it's not pointless. Companies develop a brand name based on their body of work, and how they market it. So it's perfectly valid to point out the brand name that KyoAni had built for itself up through Hyouka.


Quote:
If you can't see the difference between Chuu2, Free, KnK, small time lns they own compared to stuff like Kadokawa owned FMP and Haruhi than smh.
Of course there's a difference. But it has nothing to do with KyoAni's reputation for source material faithfulness.

If KyoAni's management agrees with you, and thinks these that these small time lns are all mediocre, then they should pick something better to adapt. Doesn't it make more sense to try to get greatness out of greatness than to try to get greatness out of mediocrity?
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Old 2013-10-19, 23:45   Link #2226
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
If KyoAni's management agrees with you, and thinks these that these small time lns are all mediocre, then they should pick something better to adapt. Doesn't it make more sense to try to get greatness out of greatness than to try to get greatness out of mediocrity?
I have a feeling that KyoAni is currently short on truly good writers. Their decision to focus on adapting in-house LNs gives them a significantly higher share of the profits, but at the cost of limiting the writing sources available to them.

They seem to acknowledge this fact as well, considering how they haven't given out an award for "best novel" yet in their yearly LN award show. And with the way they are changing the stories of their own LNs when bringing them to animation, it seems that they are effectively treating the original novels like "first drafts" to an "improved" product. If they truly thought that an LN had an amazing story, writing, and characters, I doubt that they would change it too much for the adaptation.
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Old 2013-10-19, 23:51   Link #2227
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^ Coming up with their own original premise and stories is definitely one area where they can work on.

I'll have to chime in and disagree with the notion that Free and Chunni should be considered anime originals by KyoAni. They've still taken someone else's premise and simply ran with it like they've been doing all this time. There is no original creation process in that at all apart from them trying to mold it so it suits them.
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Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2013-10-20 at 00:36.
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Old 2013-10-20, 07:36   Link #2228
cyth
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Originally Posted by Tempester View Post
They seem to acknowledge this fact as well, considering how they haven't given out an award for "best novel" yet in their yearly LN award show. And with the way they are changing the stories of their own LNs when bringing them to animation, it seems that they are effectively treating the original novels like "first drafts" to an "improved" product. If they truly thought that an LN had an amazing story, writing, and characters, I doubt that they would change it too much for the adaptation.
I agree, they should go for it seeing not many other studios are doing that. But seeing as how truly bad Kyoukai no Kanata is, either I don't have faith in their editorial process or I just don't understand it. They own all the rights, so they could have rewritten it to basically anything they wanted. What I'm trying to get to is that while this may be a bold idea (and I'm all for more boldness in the anime industry) it's not very clever when you're in short supply of good writers. But, if this show somehow doesn't manage to bomb, I'll just settle for not being able to understand how the contemporary editorial process works. Or maybe I do, I just don't want to admit it to myself.
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Old 2013-10-20, 11:57   Link #2229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempester View Post
I have a feeling that KyoAni is currently short on truly good writers. Their decision to focus on adapting in-house LNs gives them a significantly higher share of the profits, but at the cost of limiting the writing sources available to them.

They seem to acknowledge this fact as well, considering how they haven't given out an award for "best novel" yet in their yearly LN award show. And with the way they are changing the stories of their own LNs when bringing them to animation, it seems that they are effectively treating the original novels like "first drafts" to an "improved" product. If they truly thought that an LN had an amazing story, writing, and characters, I doubt that they would change it too much for the adaptation.
I'll have to agree with this. It seems relatively obvious that KyoAni is aware of the lack of quality writing that it's getting given the lack of prizes actually awarded and the fact that even those that get picked up by them end up with a major rewrite before being turned into a show. Also let's not forget the only truly anime original that the studio made: Munto. Not their best work I'm afraid

Maybe they just need to find the will to go out and ask an external writer to pen a script or two for them. I have the feeling that they aren't particularly confortable taking this route quite just yet (Gatoh excluded apparently).
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Old 2013-10-20, 12:09   Link #2230
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by cyth View Post
But seeing as how truly bad Kyoukai no Kanata is, either I don't have faith in their editorial process or I just don't understand it.
I really, really don't think it's nearly as bad as you're making it out to be. From what I've heard the book is a lot worse... so in that sense this is much like Chu2Koi, where it's still mediocre, but less so than the original.

I'd love it if they got someone decent to write their scripts, but that's not going to happen, it seems. If this is something that really matters to you, I suggest not paying any attention to KyoAni shows from now until Gatoh writes something again.
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Old 2013-10-20, 13:09   Link #2231
Utsuro no Hako
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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
I'll have to agree with this. It seems relatively obvious that KyoAni is aware of the lack of quality writing that it's getting given the lack of prizes actually awarded and the fact that even those that get picked up by them end up with a major rewrite before being turned into a show.
I have to wonder, are they even choosing books based upon their quality, or do they have something in mind and grab a submission that fits.

"You know, I'd really like to adapt Romeo Tanaka's Aura, but we'll never get the rights. Hey, check the crap pile to see if we have something similar we could rip off."

"Say, this fujoshi stuff is really doing well lately. Let's see if we have any submissions involving homoeroticism in sports."

But I don't get what they were going for with KnK -- "Why does JC Staff get all the generic light novel adaptations? It's just not fair! I want to do something totally cliched that reads like a middle school student's attempt to write a shonen action manga."
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Old 2013-10-20, 13:21   Link #2232
cyth
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Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
But I don't get what they were going for with KnK -- "Why does JC Staff get all the generic light novel adaptations? It's just not fair! I want to do something totally cliched that reads like a middle school student's attempt to write a shonen action manga."
Perhaps many a middle school student slash aspiring anime writers have already written that exact same story draft, so KyoAni is banking on them to pay homage to the one draft that made it through by buying the Blu-rays.
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Old 2013-10-20, 13:44   Link #2233
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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
only truly anime original that the studio made: Munto.
Tamako Market.
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Old 2013-10-20, 13:48   Link #2234
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Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
I have to wonder, are they even choosing books based upon their quality, or do they have something in mind and grab a submission that fits.
I think it's a bit difficult to ascertain what they might have seen in the book not having read it in Japanese. It could have been something about the way it was written that had it stand out among the pile. You also have to consider the age group of the audience they're targeting; not everyone in the market is jaded after 10+ years of trope fatigue. Of course, they probably also considered marketability and how well the characters and concepts would be suited for a media mix application, considering their primary business is still animation.

In the end, again, I don't think we need to assume everyone there is so calculated and jaded. Maybe they just read it and thought that, though it wasn't perfect, it was a fun read and they wanted to see where the author would go with it. A solid base hit is good enough when you're building a portfolio of works.
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Old 2013-10-20, 14:19   Link #2235
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Originally Posted by Warm Mist View Post
Tamako Market.
DOH! Completely forgot that Tamako Market was an anime original. I stand corrected then
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Old 2013-10-20, 14:54   Link #2236
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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
DOH! Completely forgot that Tamako Market was an anime original. I stand corrected then
Which isn't exactly a masterpiece, either, IMO.

And from what I understand, even that story was radically different than what they first had in mind when they thought it up. Make of that what you will.
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Old 2013-10-20, 14:57   Link #2237
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Originally Posted by Lord of Fire View Post
Which isn't exactly a masterpiece, either, IMO.

And from what I understand, even that story was radically different than what they first had in mind when they thought it up. Make of that what you will.
Can't really refute that even if I personally enjoyed Tamako Market quite a bit for what it is: a relatively simple slice of not so ordinary life with cute girls doing cute things.
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Old 2013-10-20, 15:28   Link #2238
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I think it's a bit difficult to ascertain what they might have seen in the book not having read it in Japanese. It could have been something about the way it was written that had it stand out among the pile. You also have to consider the age group of the audience they're targeting; not everyone in the market is jaded after 10+ years of trope fatigue. Of course, they probably also considered marketability and how well the characters and concepts would be suited for a media mix application, considering their primary business is still animation.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the mixed media aspect is important. In which case being similar to what's already on the market matters much less since presumably only a small portion of that competition gets animated.

Personally, as someone who has been watching anime for eight years and knows all the tropes, the KnK anime being "JC Staff like" doesn't bother me at all and I've come to start enjoying it quite a bit after a so-so start. A couple of the cliche based gags did but they're bothering me less as the series progresses. It strikes me as a little bit cuter, warmer, and more character driven than a typical JC Staff show, which is definitely in line with my tastes. I would speculate that maybe it's that Mirai is a timid meganneko and not a tsundere, but since I'm also a Taiga fanboy (OYZ's Zakuro as well) that explanation seems a bit suspect.
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Old 2013-10-20, 17:29   Link #2239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post

Maybe they just need to find the will to go out and ask an external writer to pen a script or two for them. I have the feeling that they aren't particularly confortable taking this route quite just yet (Gatoh excluded apparently).
Is there any particular reason why KyoAni can't just hire Gen Urobuchi or Mari Okada? It's not like either of these writers are only willing to work for one animation studio.


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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I really, really don't think it's nearly as bad as you're making it out to be. From what I've heard the book is a lot worse...
You and Westlo have both argued this now. Do either of you have a source on this? Because I've read some people compare the KnK LN favorably to the anime.
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Old 2013-10-20, 20:11   Link #2240
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Is there any particular reason why KyoAni can't just hire Gen Urobuchi or Mari Okada? It's not like either of these writers are only willing to work for one animation studio.
It could be something as simple as the various schedules just never lining up correctly. Urobuchi's writing that Kamen Rider Gaim thing, those are year long shows that almost always have a singular writer pen most of the episodes. I imagine he won't participate in any intensive writing on other shows for at least this next year.
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