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Old 2013-10-20, 23:17   Link #2241
Warm Mist
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Well, generally freelance staff coming in hinges on connections with the producers, or other members of the staff. That's pretty much how the industry works.

I'd rather neither of those two write a show for Kyoani though, Yoshida and Gatoh are better writers.
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Old 2013-10-20, 23:32   Link #2242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warm Mist View Post

I'd rather neither of those two write a show for Kyoani though, Yoshida and Gatoh are better writers.
Rarely do I see someone make such a bold statement without any supporting argumentation.

So what makes you think that Yoshida and Gatoh are better writers than Okada and Urobuchi?
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Old 2013-10-21, 01:07   Link #2243
Kaisos Erranon
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Is there any particular reason why KyoAni can't just hire Gen Urobuchi or Mari Okada? It's not like either of these writers are only willing to work for one animation studio.
I don't understand why you would want either of them writing for any anime, let alone a KyoAni show.
Whenever I watch a show where series comp is helmed by Okada or Urobuchi, I go in with apprehension, bracing for the precise moment when everything that seemed promising goes straight to hell.
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
You and Westlo have both argued this now. Do either of you have a source on this? Because I've read some people compare the KnK LN favorably to the anime.
I saw that post with all the LN --> anime changes, yes.
Content aside, from what I've heard and from what little of it I've read, the writing is not very good at all.
It shows in the anime as well, but at least that's able to break it up a bit with the original fights/jokes.
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Old 2013-10-21, 03:33   Link #2244
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Crossdressing and crazy people not suiting KyoAni, LOL why you even need to ask.
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Old 2013-10-21, 03:49   Link #2245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warm Mist View Post
Well, generally freelance staff coming in hinges on connections with the producers, or other members of the staff. That's pretty much how the industry works.

I'd rather neither of those two write a show for Kyoani though, Yoshida and Gatoh are better writers.
While I agree that I would much rather have Gatoh writing for KyoAni than either of those two I would stay far away from claiming they are worst writers. I personally have enjoyed works by all of them and each have their strengths and weaknesses but I can't claim that either of them is objectively better. Hyouka was amazingly adapted and I love FMP yes but I also enjoyed fate/zero, madoka magica and true tears. Different writers that's all.

Also: I don't think anyone at KyoAni could get Okada in check
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Old 2013-10-21, 04:17   Link #2246
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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
Also: I don't think anyone at KyoAni could get Okada in check
I would actually think Okada adapting a Chuunibyou like series with Kyoani could amount to hilarious hijinks and results. Would actually suit her quite well I think. Though definitely I would love more Hyouka style subdued series from them though I don't know if I should be banking on it any time soon.

Can't see Gen with Kyoani though since it's polar opposites in tone.

To be fair though, I'm not even entirely sure it's a writer issue, but more of the fact that Kyoani is the most reluctant studio in the industry to go out of their comfort zone, which is not so good if you're doing different genres than what you're specialised in. You can't use the same gimmicks for a supernatural/action/fantasy series like you do for a slice of life/comedy.
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Old 2013-10-21, 04:49   Link #2247
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It's really apples, oranges, and bananas.

However, Gen and Mari seem to prefer strong willed and independent women so I guess Kyoani as of late wouldn't want them.
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Old 2013-10-21, 05:17   Link #2248
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
It's really apples, oranges, and bananas.

However, Gen and Mari seem to prefer strong willed and independent women so I guess Kyoani as of late wouldn't want them.
Mitsuki from Kyoukai no Kanata says hi. Unfortunately, there's no way in hell she could carry the show . Not sure if intentional but it seems like they took some cues from Monogatari's Senjougahara.

But yeh, I agree. Kyoani females are... how should I say, rather either hyperactive annoying, airheaded klutzes or mute dolls. Not very likable.
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Old 2013-10-21, 09:33   Link #2249
scineram
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I loved Mayaka. And Gou and Ama. And Midori and Kanna.

I also don't think Kyoukai no Kanata is that bad, the execution is somewhat lacking.
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Old 2013-10-21, 11:10   Link #2250
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Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat View Post
You can't use the same gimmicks for a supernatural/action/fantasy series like you do for a slice of life/comedy.
a) They're not, at least not entirely. You're focusing too much on small details while ignoring the larger picture. How is Kyokai ultimately that similar to, say, Tamako Market? Or Free?
b) Why aren't the same style of gags acceptable in a supernatural action series? No, really, why not? I think comedy is fine and preferable to the typically bad drama surrounding those kinds of works and that will inevitably surround Kyokai next week.
c) I've said this many times before, but I honestly feel that if Kyokai was made by a different studio and had different character designs, but was otherwise exactly the same, you guys would have very little problem with it. This, to me, is the real KyoAni Exceptionalism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
However, Gen and Mari seem to prefer strong willed and independent women so I guess Kyoani as of late wouldn't want them.
Yeah, because this is a statement that makes sense. Gen and Okada have both written weak-willed, useless female characters, and KyoAni shows have had plenty of strong girls (though usually not as main heroines, but that's pretty standard for anime).
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Old 2013-10-21, 11:28   Link #2251
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
c) I've said this many times before, but I honestly feel that if Kyokai was made by a different studio and had different character designs, but was otherwise exactly the same, you guys would have very little problem with it. This, to me, is the real KyoAni Exceptionalism.
Correct, I wouldn't even watch the first episode. Really, the only reason why I didn't ignore Kyoukai no Kanata was KyoAni's usually good animation plus the trailer was kind of exciting, not least for the fact that it didn't look like another K-ON! clone. KyoAni deserves special treatment. You should know by now that even the loudest critics can't say much against their animation craftsmanship. If that's what's saving KyoAni from becoming completely irrelevant, then I say more power to them.
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Old 2013-10-21, 12:22   Link #2252
Utsuro no Hako
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
a) They're not, at least not entirely. You're focusing too much on small details while ignoring the larger picture. How is Kyokai ultimately that similar to, say, Tamako Market? Or Free?

b) Why aren't the same style of gags acceptable in a supernatural action series? No, really, why not? I think comedy is fine and preferable to the typically bad drama surrounding those kinds of works and that will inevitably surround Kyokai next week.
You can have humor in these kinds of series, but it has to be used wisely so as not to ruin the tone. A great example is in Another when
Spoiler for dance scene:


But stuff like the bucket-head scene in KnK is too cutesy and makes the character seem more like an air-headed K-On girl than the protagonist of a dark fantasy story. It doesn't matter that such scenes are less pronounced than in a KyoAni moe comedy, it still ruins the tone.

Quote:
c) I've said this many times before, but I honestly feel that if Kyokai was made by a different studio and had different character designs, but was otherwise exactly the same, you guys would have very little problem with it. This, to me, is the real KyoAni Exceptionalism.
No, the bucket-head scene would be face-palm worthy no matter what studio did it.
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Old 2013-10-21, 12:27   Link #2253
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I don't understand why you would want either of them writing for any anime, let alone a KyoAni show.
Maybe because Madoka Magica is my all-time favorite anime show, and Fate/Zero and Psycho-Pass are also on my all-time favorites list?

True Tears and Hanasaku Iroha are also on that list.

It's probably best to not get into an extensive debate over differences of opinion on the writing quality of particular anime writers, but I think that Urobuchi's and Okada's fame and popularity speaks for itself. Like it or not, a lot of anime fans love one or the other or both.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
c) I've said this many times before, but I honestly feel that if Kyokai was made by a different studio and had different character designs, but was otherwise exactly the same, you guys would have very little problem with it.
Honestly, I'd probably like it less. The KyoAni visual polish makes some content a decent/good watch where otherwise it might not be.

If Kyokai had, say, mid-range JC Staff budgeting and visual quality, I'm not sure I'd even choose to keep watching it.

In fairness, this is a mixed blessing for KyoAni. It means that some people keep watching some of their shows almost for the visuals alone, and those people might be very critical of the other aspects of these shows. So this can make a KyoAni thread be much more active, but also have much more criticism in it, then a thread for very similar but less well-animated content.
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Old 2013-10-21, 12:46   Link #2254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post

Yeah, because this is a statement that makes sense. Gen and Okada have both written weak-willed, useless female characters, and KyoAni shows have had plenty of strong girls (though usually not as main heroines, but that's pretty standard for anime).
It was a GENeralization..... which of course works on a relative level. Of course it's not a unilateral statement since unlike people I don't pass observations off as truth. But off the image of what our representative characters are when you bring up such labels, it seems I wouldn't say there's no trend whatsoever.

By your logic, there's no difference between a desert and a forrest because a desert might sometimes rain. Or that's a funny post because sometimes your jokes work.
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Old 2013-10-21, 12:48   Link #2255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
b) Why aren't the same style of gags acceptable in a supernatural action series? No, really, why not? I think comedy is fine and preferable to the typically bad drama surrounding those kinds of works and that will inevitably surround Kyokai next week.
Badly executed comedy can be just as bad as being overly dramatic. KnK's humor felt incredibly out of place and it annoyed me to intolerable levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyth View Post
KyoAni deserves special treatment.
No, they do not. They're not 'special', nor are they perfect.

Quote:
You should know by now that even the loudest critics can't say much against their animation craftsmanship. If that's what's saving KyoAni from becoming completely irrelevant, then I say more power to them.
But great animation alone does not a great show make. Right now, people love them for their animation skills, but I'm sure the love won't last if they keep messing up the stories and characters in their shows.
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Old 2013-10-21, 13:19   Link #2256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
c) I've said this many times before, but I honestly feel that if Kyokai was made by a different studio and had different character designs, but was otherwise exactly the same, you guys would have very little problem with it. This, to me, is the real KyoAni Exceptionalism.
Same as Cyth, I likely wouldn't have checked the show out in the first place if it was a different studio (unless the trailers looked really pretty like KnK's did)
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Old 2013-10-21, 13:27   Link #2257
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
c) I've said this many times before, but I honestly feel that if Kyokai was made by a different studio and had different character designs, but was otherwise exactly the same, you guys would have very little problem with it. This, to me, is the real KyoAni Exceptionalism.
You really think that I choose Kyoani in particular to criticize? C'mon kaisos, you know me better than that. I crap on many shows, not just from any particular studio. The only studio you can accuse me of studio bias is DEEN and that's well deserved.
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Old 2013-10-21, 14:15   Link #2258
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You really think that I choose Kyoani in particular to criticize? C'mon kaisos, you know me better than that. I crap on many shows, not just from any particular studio. The only studio you can accuse me of studio bias is DEEN and that's well deserved.
That's 100% true. Reckoner heavily criticizes virtually every show I see him post about
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Old 2013-10-21, 14:39   Link #2259
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Forgot to mention that I'd want to see an Okada X Kyoani show because this forum would explode , I'd it'd be fun to see that !

Random trivia: she does know writers who have worked on kyoani shows: Hanada Jukki (KnK,Chuu2,Nichijo) , Yokotani Masahiro (free!), Shimo Fumihiko (Kanon, Clannad) have worked with Okada.
But I think that's probably more proof that the anime writing world is a small one more than anything.

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That's 100% true. Reckoner heavily criticizes virtually every show I see him post about
That's how I recommend White Album 2 to people "guys,it's so good even Reck likes it!"

Yes that was a shameless WA2 plug cause I feel more people should watch it
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Old 2013-10-21, 16:37   Link #2260
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Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
You can have humor in these kinds of series, but it has to be used wisely so as not to ruin the tone. A great example is in Another when
I'm going to stop you there because Another is a terrible example of a show that "uses humor wisely".
Another is a fantastic comedy, yes, but despite it having a comedy director it probably wasn't meant to be one at all.
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Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
It doesn't matter that such scenes are less pronounced than in a KyoAni moe comedy, it still ruins the tone.
Much of the tone of Kyokai thus far has been, even during action scenes, a sort of laid-back irrelevancy, which actually fits very well with what they're going for. The characters don't take their yokai hunting particularly seriously; it's just something that they do for a living.
That style of worldbuilding is actually quite interesting, IMO.
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Same as Cyth, I likely wouldn't have checked the show out in the first place if it was a different studio (unless the trailers looked really pretty like KnK's did)
Hmm. I suppose I was wrong, then, but that brings up another explanation I had in mind.
In this case I'd think that a lot of the complaints and criticism directed at KyoAni shows in particular are complaints that could be leveled at general trends in anime as a whole. KyoAni gets the brunt of these complaints because their shows inevitably have a lot of hype behind them, which results in more attention being directed their way, even from people who would not normally watch those kind of shows.
I mean, you guys wouldn't normally watch "moe comedies", right?
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