AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > General Anime

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-08-30, 18:15   Link #521
Klashikari
Swords•Maidens Maniac
*Graphic Designer
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Europe, Belgium, Brussels
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
If you have incredible marketability in a show, coupled with a large brand name KyoAni, and then you get some of the success it did... Then the anime transcends what it really is. You have people not only buying the DVD and blue rays, but the merchandise because it's popular, and very otaku in its marketability. Like anything thta's popular, people come in to see what it's all about, and by being marketable, people purchase stuff to bath in the popularity of it. However, since it's all under this umbrella of otaku marketing, it becomes a sort of thing where you are buying into the popular market of otakuism, and getting Otaku cred.
Marketing isn't exactly almighty in that hobby, especially in Japan.
Note that buying merchandise and BD/DVD is otherworldly expensive over there: you really don't buy things because it is "popular". Most spend their money on what they really like, whether or not it is a masterpiece. Frankly, Japan would be the very last place for an otaku to buy "things because they are popular", considering the steep price tags for most things, but also other stuff such like accomodations etc.

I can see such stuff occuring in the western audience, but no way in hell simple popularity can drive japanese fans to buy things, especially as niche and frowned upon as Otaku stuff.
Quote:
What makes this show different from a Bakemongatari, despite similar sales and such, is that Bakemongatari is not exactly as marketable and thus I'm led to believe it has different reasons of popularity than most animes this decade.
Bakemonogatari is a complete different genre, but it has its lionshare of traits that would bait a frenzy crowd as well. The fanbase is the main factor for such kind of response, and it leads to unexpected results times to times.
Klashikari is online now  
Old 2011-08-30, 18:20   Link #522
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 32
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Anyways, how is this theory at all a slight to the show?
Because it casts aspersions on why people liked the show, and chose to buy it on DVD/Blu-Ray.

For a person who hates a show, it's much easier to attribute its success to things like "brand names", "marketability", "hype", and everything but simple widespread viewer satisfaction with the show and fan assessment of its merits.

You don't want to accept the fact that a large number of viewers and purchasers may have simply considered K-On to be one of the best of its genre, and worth owning as such.


Quote:
You're trying to basically tell me that the marketability of the show wasn't an enormous factor in the show's success and that it was all simply based on its own merits.
I never said that its success was all based on its own merits. However, I don't see any reason to think that its success was any less based on its merits than Clannad's success was based on its own merits or Kanon 2006's success was based on its own merits.

All three are KyoAni works. All three have source material fans (the Key fanbase, in fact, was probably larger than the K-On fanbase prior to K-On being adapted into an anime). All three are easy to market, and were well-marketed.


Quote:
Explain to me for example how IS or Bakemongatari is in any way as marketable as this show.
IS and Bake both have a very strong harem anime element to them, and harem anime trope elements (particularly character types) are frequently easy to market and are popular.

IS had the added benefit of having mechas in it, at a time when new/recent mecha anime was very hard to find. That likely helped its cross-genre marketability.

Bake was helped by the Shinbo/SHAFT artistic style (which can be used in marketing), which is clearly quite popular (consider Madoka's success as well here).


Quote:
Not going to respond to the rest because my personal views on the franchise don't matter to this discussion.
If only that were the case...
__________________
Triple_R is online now  
Old 2011-08-30, 18:21   Link #523
Goggen
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
I'm not joking. The original series is seven discs, and even at places like Amazon Japan, that would cost around $350 because of the price structure of the Japanese Bluray market. The second season costs even more.

Tens of thousands of fans shelled out for them, far more than for most other anime, despite the fact you can probably rent the discs for far less. Now, some might be buying just because they plan to rewatch a lot - this series is a household name among otaku, after all - but it strikes me that a lot of it is probably what's known as conspicuous consumption - consuming because of what it says about you.
O-kay...

I can point to at least one person who bought every volume of K-On (both seasons) for no reason other than love of the show: Me. And I'll say this; I was no otaku - much less a KyoAni fan - before I saw K-On. This anime just pushed all the right buttons for me, and it should be obvious to anyone that I am far from alone in that regard. You're just gonna have to accept the fact that there are many of us who are just that into K-On. You yourself pointed out the insane prices they charge for the BDs (though it's not like it's actually much more expensive than other Japanese releases of anime series on Blu-Ray, I think)... No one is going to pay that much if they don't actually want it. (Seriously, "otaku cred"? What the fuck?!)
Goggen is offline  
Old 2011-08-30, 18:34   Link #524
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 32
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goggen View Post
O-kay...

I can point to at least one person who bought every volume of K-On (both seasons) for no reason other than love of the show: Me. And I'll say this; I was no otaku - much less a KyoAni fan - before I saw K-On. This anime just pushed all the right buttons for me, and it should be obvious to anyone that I am far from alone in that regard. You're just gonna have to accept the fact that there are many of us who are just that into K-On. You yourself pointed out the insane prices they charge for the BDs (though it's not like it's actually much more expensive than other Japanese releases of anime series on Blu-Ray, I think)... No one is going to pay that much if they don't actually want it. (Seriously, "otaku cred"? What the fuck?!)
Good points.

The fact that K-On could sell well with that insane pricing tells me it was very highly regarded by a lot of anime fans. You don't regard something that highly if you don't think highly of its merits...
__________________
Triple_R is online now  
Old 2011-08-30, 18:49   Link #525
Reckoner
Bittersweet Distractor
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Santa Barbara
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Marketing isn't exactly almighty in that hobby, especially in Japan.
Note that buying merchandise and BD/DVD is otherworldly expensive over there: you really don't buy things because it is "popular". Most spend their money on what they really like, whether or not it is a masterpiece. Frankly, Japan would be the very last place for an otaku to buy "things because they are popular", considering the steep price tags for most things, but also other stuff such like accomodations etc.

I can see such stuff occuring in the western audience, but no way in hell simple popularity can drive japanese fans to buy things, especially as niche and frowned upon as Otaku stuff.
Bakemonogatari is a complete different genre, but it has its lionshare of traits that would bait a frenzy crowd as well. The fanbase is the main factor for such kind of response, and it leads to unexpected results times to times.
I could use this logic to actually say that marketing is an even bigger factor there. People are going to be careful on what to spend their money on because everything is pricey so what looks the shiniest and the loudest out there in the market, in this case K-ON!, is what's going to be purchased.

But keep in mind we're working within the framework of Akihabra culture here. Bringing in the idea that it's a frowned upon hobby is relevant to Japanese society as a whole only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Because it casts aspersions on why some people liked the show, and chose to buy it on DVD/Blu-Ray.
Edited it for accuracy. If you're not one of those people, it doesn't mean anything to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
For a person who hates a show, it's much easier to attribute its success to things like "brand names", "marketability", "hype", and everything but simple widespread viewer satisfaction with the show and fan assessment of its merits.

You don't want to accept the fact that a large number of viewers and purchasers may have simply considered K-On to be one of the best of its genre, and worth owning as such.
I don't understand you persistence on this idea that I can't accept that people like what they like . I never complained about the fanbase here.

Most criticisms I and others have of K-ON! have nothing to do with its marketability anyways, so I don't get why that matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I never said that its success was all based on its own merits. However, I don't see any reason to think that its success was any less based on its merits than Clannad's success was based on its own merits or Kanon 2006's success was based on its own merits.

All three are KyoAni works. All three have source material fans (the Key fanbase, in fact, was probably larger than the K-On fanbase prior to K-On being adapted into an anime). All three are easy to market, and were well-marketed.
Like I said, I have my theory and you have yours. In either case, whether my theory is true or not, doesn't mean anything about the actual quality and merits of the show. All it does is help explain some of the humongous distance between it and other similar shows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
IS and Bake both have a very strong harem anime element to them, and harem anime trope elements (particularly character types) are frequently easy to market and are popular.

IS had the added benefit of having mechas in it, at a time when new/recent mecha anime was very hard to find. That likely helped its cross-genre marketability.

Bake was helped by the Shinbo/SHAFT artistic style (which can be used in marketing), which is clearly quite popular (consider Madoka's success as well here).
Did either of those shows have something like the first ED? Did either show have the novelty of these moe girls with musical instruments? Did either of this shows exemplify the supposed pureness and harmlessness of K-ON!? I don't know, I just don't see them on the same level of marketability myself. But that could be just me.
Reckoner is offline  
Old 2011-08-30, 19:01   Link #526
Ithekro
Space Battleship
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 36
I think the comparison form IS, Bake, and K-On (perhaps Madoka as well) is simply because they all sell well. But for different reasons. It is entirely possible they are all being bought by the same people, but that is not always the case. IS and Bake have harem and fanservice elements that would attract a more male audiance. K-On's girls having a fun time mixed with the music would seem to have attracted a female audiance as well as the male audiance. I've no idea what Madoka is attracting. One would think he Sailor Moon/other magical girls shows (the non-fanservice kind) crowd, but then things get weird and suffering...so I can't tell anymore.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is offline  
Old 2011-08-30, 19:04   Link #527
0utf0xZer0
Pretentious moe scholar
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goggen View Post
O-kay...

I can point to at least one person who bought every volume of K-On (both seasons) for no reason other than love of the show: Me. And I'll say this; I was no otaku - much less a KyoAni fan - before I saw K-On. This anime just pushed all the right buttons for me, and it should be obvious to anyone that I am far from alone in that regard. You're just gonna have to accept the fact that there are many of us who are just that into K-On. You yourself pointed out the insane prices they charge for the BDs (though it's not like it's actually much more expensive than other Japanese releases of anime series on Blu-Ray, I think)... No one is going to pay that much if they don't actually want it. (Seriously, "otaku cred"? What the fuck?!)
I think your blog mentions the UK release... first volume of which is equivalent to about $16 Canadian (going with my own currency here) for what, four episodes?

Would you pay 250 British pounds for the first season on DVD? Even if it was available for rental? Because that's what around forty thousand Japanese did.

Anime makes up the vast majority of Bluray sales in Japan and a huge portion of DVD sales as well, despite being of interest to only a small segment of the population. I suspect everyone else just rents movies... like people did in the US and UK back when VHS movies were 50 pounds each.

Otaku could rent. Since most shows are broadcast over the air, they could also record the show to DVD or Bluray (popular in Japan) or download it via the county's world class broadband connections - the latter being common among those who plan to watch shows on the go, from what I here.

Under those sorts of circumstances, a 250 pound DVD set is going to be a status symbol. Even more so if its of a hot series. "I love K-On! enough to spend 250 pounds on DVDs!" That kind of thing. That's what I mean when I say it confers otaku cred.

And again, I'm not saying K-On fans are any more prone to this sort of mentality than those of any other series... just that the series ability to attract and retain attention (which has to do with a lot of marketability factors like how catchy the OP and ED sequences are) mean its a series that more people are going to want to say "I spent 250 pounds!" about.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I've no idea what Madoka is attracting. One would think he Sailor Moon/other magical girls shows (the non-fanservice kind) crowd, but then things get weird and suffering...so I can't tell anymore.
I keep thinking that Madoka taped into some of the same factors that made NGE so popular. I've never analyzed the two shows enough to pick the exact factors out but with the sort of fanbases they have I'm sure someone could.
__________________

Signature courtesy of Ganbaru.
0utf0xZer0 is offline  
Old 2011-08-30, 19:08   Link #528
Hooves
~In Wonderland~
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 19
Send a message via Skype™ to Hooves
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I think the comparison form IS, Bake, and K-On (perhaps Madoka as well) is simply because they all sell well. But for different reasons. It is entirely possible they are all being bought by the same people, but that is not always the case. IS and Bake have harem and fanservice elements that would attract a more male audiance. K-On's girls having a fun time mixed with the music would seem to have attracted a female audiance as well as the male audiance. I've no idea what Madoka is attracting. One would think he Sailor Moon/other magical girls shows (the non-fanservice kind) crowd, but then things get weird and suffering...so I can't tell anymore.
Deconstruction animes, especially those centering around a more common genre of animes are usually very popular. But that depends on who directs it, since we had a typical school anime turned into a mess...
__________________
MyAnimeList (Hoovesahoy)
Avatar from: Hooves
Signature from: Patchy
Hooves is offline  
Old 2011-08-30, 19:16   Link #529
0utf0xZer0
Pretentious moe scholar
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooves View Post
Deconstruction animes, especially those centering around a more common genre of animes are usually very popular. But that depends on who directs it, since we had a typical school anime turned into a mess...
If you're thinking of Angel Beats, that was hugely popular too. And that's actually another case where I'd argue that the sheer profile of the show is a major part of its sales success.

Conversely, I suspect that Nichijou's sales failure is in large part because it never attained the same profile. Something I see due to a number of factors. For one, I don't think its as marketable as K-On! Second, I wonder if the sheer scale of K-On!'s success probably actually made it harder for KyoAni to follow up on it - old project retaining attention that could go to the new one, basically.
__________________

Signature courtesy of Ganbaru.
0utf0xZer0 is offline  
Old 2011-08-30, 19:17   Link #530
Ithekro
Space Battleship
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 36
The Japanese could rent, but you don't get the "exclusive" items if you rent.

However some people just want to have to own. I don't even want to think of the hundreds...perhaps even thousands,of VHS, Beta, and DVDs we own in my family. While most of the Beta and VHS stuff is recorded off television, all the DVDs are bought. And very, very little of it is anime. Most is westerns, TV series, American movies, science fiction, and the like. I probably only have maybe 20 series of anime total, most of it sci-fi from the 70s 80s and 90s. Most of the more recent stuff I can find on the Internet someplace if I want to see something. People just like to collect things they want to see. Otaku cred is not needed for that. One just has to have a desire to own things to watch whenever they want, rather than have to go rent it or wait for Netflixs or a stream to finish, or he whims of copy protections on say Youtube.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is offline  
Old 2011-08-30, 19:42   Link #531
TJR
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goggen
No one is going to pay that much if they don't actually want it. (Seriously, "otaku cred"? What the fuck?!)
Both factors influence purchase. Liking a show is obviously a pre-requisite given the high cost of DVD/Blu-Ray discs. However, otaku can only afford so many things (i.e. they love three shows during a certain season but only have enough money to invest in one of them), so they gravitate toward titles that generate the biggest storms of hype and are most successful at uniting fans.

Producers understand this, and they're now changing marketing strategies and business models (which includes release timing and a greater reliance on online communication) to better suit their needs. I don't think it's any coincidence that we've recently seen a spike in the number of abnormally successful titles.

....all of which is good for the industry. Inability to monetize their product (despite popularity) has continued to haunt producers.

http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=129934
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=296000

Quote:
In 2008, the miraculous success of Kara no Kyoukai astonished the anime producers. The limited theater release of OVA brought about enormous profits, which well exceeded those of the major TV series. Kara no Kyoukai created a festival-like atmosphere among the audience and it was sublimated into a sense of unity. The purchase of DVD was regarded as a sort of "certificate" of the participation in the festival.
Quote:
Sudo Tadashi, the president of Anime!Anime!, said TV anime produced by popular anime studios like SHAFT and Kyoto Animation sell well because the Blu-rays of their anime are not simple video media but communication tools among the fans. The TV airing of such anime arouses enthusiasm among the audience and stimulates energetic discussions online. People purchase the Blu-ray as a souvenir of the whole excitements.
TJR is offline  
Old 2011-08-30, 19:46   Link #532
0utf0xZer0
Pretentious moe scholar
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 27
Edit: I'm thinking TJR's "souvenir" explanation might be better than my theory. Doesn't change the fact the "otaku social phenomenon" element is absolutely vital to generating sales, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
The Japanese could rent, but you don't get the "exclusive" items if you rent.

However some people just want to have to own. I don't even want to think of the hundreds...perhaps even thousands,of VHS, Beta, and DVDs we own in my family. While most of the Beta and VHS stuff is recorded off television, all the DVDs are bought. And very, very little of it is anime. Most is westerns, TV series, American movies, science fiction, and the like. I probably only have maybe 20 series of anime total, most of it sci-fi from the 70s 80s and 90s. Most of the more recent stuff I can find on the Internet someplace if I want to see something. People just like to collect things they want to see. Otaku cred is not needed for that. One just has to have a desire to own things to watch whenever they want, rather than have to go rent it or wait for Netflixs or a stream to finish, or he whims of copy protections on say Youtube.
DVD recorders aren't as common in the US as in Japan. Conversely, cheap DVDs are common in the US but not in Japan. Broadband bandwidth is cheaper in Japan than the US, and 2TB hard drives are pretty reasonable anywhere these days - I always buy in twos so I have two copies in case of drive failure.

Again, the question I ask: would you spend 400 US Dollars on a series and if so, why?

And I'm not saying that there aren't people who don't spend that much just on love of the show alone. I'm just saying that being able to say "I love this show this much" is a big incentive.
__________________

Signature courtesy of Ganbaru.
0utf0xZer0 is offline  
Old 2011-08-30, 20:02   Link #533
Ithekro
Space Battleship
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 36
DVD recorders aren't as common in the US likely due to the VCR being extremely common (and relatively cheap) and that VCRs didn't get blocked by random copy protection from some stations on cable. That and by the time VHS started to dry up Divo and cable provided hard drive like recording systems had become common enough to replace the VCR without having to get a DVD recorder...for TV purposes. Some people have them anyway, but use them to transfere stuff they recorded on Betamax or VHS to disc. Home movies, old television shows or things that aren't on DVD or BD at all

My question: because it came up when going over my grandmother's place, What do you do with old VHS tapes? We got hundreds of them.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!

Last edited by Ithekro; 2011-08-30 at 20:16.
Ithekro is offline  
Old 2011-08-30, 20:15   Link #534
cyth
ふひひ
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Marketing isn't exactly almighty in that hobby, especially in Japan.
Note that buying merchandise and BD/DVD is otherworldly expensive over there: you really don't buy things because it is "popular". Most spend their money on what they really like, whether or not it is a masterpiece. Frankly, Japan would be the very last place for an otaku to buy "things because they are popular", considering the steep price tags for most things, but also other stuff such like accomodations etc.
Why do I get the feeling that this discussion has placed far too much importance on how many discs K-ON! sold? I mean, sales numbers alone didn't elevate the franchise to its legendary status, though perhaps the early otaku push did help to facilitate its second season, which had far more appeal for general audiences. If sales numbers were the sole indicator of the show's greatness, then why isn't Bakemonogatari such a phenomenon? People genuinely loved K-ON!, it managed to sneak past its otaku borders, so marketers didn't focus solely on the hardcore fanbase, but produced cheap merchandise--CDs, life goods, nendoroids etc.--that can be afforded by anybody. Couple that with frequent franchise events and seichi junrei, a couple of effective newspaper ads, and I think we have solved the mystery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
I keep thinking that Madoka taped into some of the same factors that made NGE so popular. I've never analyzed the two shows enough to pick the exact factors out but with the sort of fanbases they have I'm sure someone could.
Funny you mention the two shows, because some Japanese subculture critics cite NGE and Madoka as the beginning and the end of sekai-kei shows. There was an interview with Miyadai Shinji on the matter, posted here.
__________________
cyth is offline  
Old 2011-08-30, 20:22   Link #535
Ithekro
Space Battleship
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 36
Haruhi as an anime series and light novel series, has generated a massive amount of talk about how indepth it is, or the more often the nature of time travel, religion, high level sciences, and history in some cases. It gets pretty deep in some threads. Even in the years it wasn't onthe air, it still generated discussion. Even to the point of having indepth debates on how the series works just to make a believable genderbent version of itself right here on AnimeSuki.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is offline  
Old 2011-08-30, 20:23   Link #536
Random32
Also a Lolicon
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Quote:
My point was that because K-ON! has otaku interests, it can give otaku cred. Whether or not other popular shows in existence do as well is pretty much irrelevant to my statement.
I highly doubt people spend hundreds of dollars on otaku cred. People liked K-On and bought stuff because they liked it.

Quote:
I only mentioned KyoAni's name because it did give weight to the marketing of this show compared to past shows which were certainly no less inferior, perhaps even superior IMO.
KyoAni, while having a large fanbase, is obviously not a major reason to buy something. Can I mention Munto? I'm pretty sure K-On sold outside KyoAni fans as well as it sold outside the otaku market, reaching pseudo-mainstream levels of popularity. Outside the otaku market, KyoAni means even less, and K-On still sells. Its not as much KyoAni that sells K-On as it is K-On being a quality product with wide appeal.

Quote:
Multiple factors. But KyoAni's name coupled with things like its marketability + otaku cred make it simple to understand for me.
What does the mainstream market have to gain from this vague concept of "otaku cred." Last time I checked, K-On was remarkably popular with non-otakus. Non-otakus have little chance of knowing who KyoAni is before they started liking K-On. I will have to agree that K-On is marketable though, but what's wrong with that? Its a quality product with wide appeal.

Quote:
It's not. If it can't be remembered, stand the test of time, you're just a fad, a relic of the generation.
The Beatles were called a fab I believe. Then they stood the test of time and they aren't a fad any more it seems. K-On has a test of time standing in front of it, and until the time passes neither of us can really predict how it will fare.


Quote:
If you have incredible marketability in a show, coupled with a large brand name KyoAni, and then you get some of the success it did... Then the anime transcends what it really is.
KyoAni is nearly irrelevant,
1. Munto. Obviously people buy things when they see KyoAni on it. Not.
2. Outside the otaku market, KyoAni means even less. K-On seems to be succeeding outside the otaku market, so it isn't KyoAni driving the sales, but a quality product with wide appeal.

Marketability is directly related to how wide the appeal of the show is and the quality of the product. I don't see how anime transcends what it really is by being a quality show with wide appeal, and thus marketable.

Quote:
You have people not only buying the DVD and blue rays, but the merchandise because it's popular, and very otaku in its marketability.
Its succeeding outside of otaku. Why? Because its very mainstream in its marketability. You have people buying not only the DVD and BluRays, but the merchanise because they really like K-On and want to have something to associate them with K-On, want to support the people who made K-On, or want something to collect related to K-On.

Quote:
Like anything thta's popular, people come in to see what it's all about, and by being marketable, people purchase stuff to bath in the popularity of it.
People purchase stuff because they like it and want to feel "in" with other fans that have also shown off the fact that they like the product by buying something.

Quote:
However, since it's all under this umbrella of otaku marketing, it becomes a sort of thing where you are buying into the popular market of otakuism, and getting Otaku cred.
Its popular outside the otaku market. I don't think its popular enough outside the otaku market to drive people to buy it for the popularity cred though. So it is in fact selling primarily on being a quality product with wide appeal, not this I want everyone to know I'm more otaku than them feeling.
Random32 is offline  
Old 2011-08-30, 20:41   Link #537
Hooves
~In Wonderland~
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 19
Send a message via Skype™ to Hooves
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
If you're thinking of Angel Beats, that was hugely popular too. And that's actually another case where I'd argue that the sheer profile of the show is a major part of its sales success.

Conversely, I suspect that Nichijou's sales failure is in large part because it never attained the same profile. Something I see due to a number of factors. For one, I don't think its as marketable as K-On! Second, I wonder if the sheer scale of K-On!'s success probably actually made it harder for KyoAni to follow up on it - old project retaining attention that could go to the new one, basically.
Oh no, I was thinking more in lines of School Days.
__________________
MyAnimeList (Hoovesahoy)
Avatar from: Hooves
Signature from: Patchy
Hooves is offline  
Old 2011-08-31, 05:15   Link #538
Goggen
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
Would you pay 250 British pounds for the first season on DVD? Even if it was available for rental? Because that's what around forty thousand Japanese did.
Oh, absolutely. And since I bought the Japanese Blu-Ray volumes, I already did (well... except the "DVD" part).

You know, I think I figured out why it's so hard for you to believe people bought K-On just for the love of it... I could be wrong, but it sounds to me that the idea of wanting to own physical copies of ones favorite TV shows and movies is foreign to you. I shouldn't be surprised at that, considering this is a torrent listing site and all, but the point is there are still a lot of us left, that being people like me for whom it is the most natural thing in the world to want to own actual physical copies of our entertainment - not rent, not download, but own it to keep on the shelf and be able to pull it out and watch any time we want to.

Personally, I'm the type of person who will buy pretty much any movie or TV show box set I have even the slightest interest in so when something like K-On comes along that I absolutely love, a scary price tag isn't going to get in my way. I'm willing to pay (the equivalent of) 250 British pounds not because it's something to brag about, but because that is what it costs.
Goggen is offline  
Old 2011-08-31, 10:27   Link #539
0utf0xZer0
Pretentious moe scholar
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goggen View Post
You know, I think I figured out why it's so hard for you to believe people bought K-On just for the love of it... I could be wrong, but it sounds to me that the idea of wanting to own physical copies of ones favorite TV shows and movies is foreign to you.
You did read the part of the post where I mentioned that I thought TJR's explanation that otaku buy blurays of shows as a souvenir of the experience of that show's airing, right? I think its kind of a given I consider physical souvenirs superior.

I simply was looking for an explanation of why shows that become social phenomenon within the otaku community experience a bluray sales boost that is proportionally much larger than the boost in ratings. I theorized that spending on shows is admired in the otaku community and that some otaku spend money to gain this admiration, hence creating a preference for spending even more on popular shows than their popularity would suggest. It's not exactly rocket science, prestige is frequently invoked to explain why something (ie. sports cars) sells.

For reference, I own a couple shelves of R1 discs, which I buy for two reasons: first, because I want to support the creators, and second, because I don't want to be known as the guy who only downloads and never buys. So yes, its partly image driven. I will admit I do not buy just to own a physical copy (exception: NIS America box sets, which are gorgeous) as I don't need a pressed disc for backup because I'm really good about backing my stuff up and I watch most stuff on a PC rather than a DVD player anyway.

I also rarely use torrents and use this site strictly for the discussions, but that's another matter.
__________________

Signature courtesy of Ganbaru.
0utf0xZer0 is offline  
Old 2011-08-31, 11:47   Link #540
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 32
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Did either of those shows have something like the first ED? Did either show have the novelty of these moe girls with musical instruments? Did either of this shows exemplify the supposed pureness and harmlessness of K-ON!? I don't know, I just don't see them on the same level of marketability myself. But that could be just me.
You see, in my view, these points (the ones I've put in bold) touch on the show's merits, rather than just marketability appeal alone.

I mean, the novelty aspect of K-On doesn't simply effect how marketable it is, it also directly effects its content. The same is true of K-On's "pureness and harmlessness".

K-On!, and many KyoAni shows, offer "moe minus ecchi", which is actually not the easiest combination to find. Most moe-driven VN adaptations that I've watched have at least some ecchi (i.e. sexual fanservice) in them. K-On (and the KyoAni/Key works) have almost none. Yes, it has beach episodes, but it doesn't go out of its way to give "pervy camera angles", IIRC.

Perhaps there's a significant number of DVD/Blu-Ray buyers that like the "moe without ecchi" content of K-On, and find that of distinctive merit. In fact, I would say that this is probably one of the main reasons that a significant number of real life teenage girls are attracted to K-On, whereas they might not be attracted to a show where the female characters are frequently sexually objectified.

I mean, would you and I as heterosexual adult males be attracted to works that spend a huge chunk of the time sexually objectifying male characters? I suspect that the answer is "no" (I know that it's "no" for me at least). So it only makes sense that many heterosexual teenage girls would be turned off by works that spend a huge chunk of time sexually objectifying teenage girl characters.

By K-On almost never sexually objectifying Yui, Ritsu, Mio, and Mugi, it perhaps makes it easier for female teenage viewers to take these characters seriously, and maybe even to live vicariously through them (much as male viewers sometimes do through male anime leads).


Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post

I simply was looking for an explanation of why shows that become social phenomenon within the otaku community experience a bluray sales boost that is proportionally much larger than the boost in ratings.
Ratings reflect perceived quality in a general sense. But they don't necessarily reflect elements like degree of accessibility or range of appeal.

For example, I thoroughly enjoyed Higurashi, and rated it highly, but I realize that its blend of moe with slasher-horror action is a bit of an acquired taste. Basically, to like Higurashi, you either have to like the contrast in and of itself, and/or you have to like both elements of that contrast separately. For those otakus that dislike slasher-horror elements, Higurashi simply can't sell to them.

K-On, perhaps amusingly without its own creators even realizing it, managed to create teenage female characters that appeal both to male otakus and to (some) real life teenage girls. They hit a cross-demographic "sweet spot", so to speak. There's also few if any elements in K-On that make it an instant "no go" for some otakus. Its "pureness and harmlessness", as Reck puts it, is part of its appeal to many paying customers, I think. Not every anime show has that. In fact, most don't have that.
__________________

Last edited by Triple_R; 2011-08-31 at 11:57.
Triple_R is online now  
Closed Thread

Tags
studios

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 20:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.