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Old 2013-04-27, 17:35   Link #1801
ultimatemegax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
3) Haruhi 2009: It may have sold well for what it was, but I feel like Haruhi 2009 really damaged the franchises' "halo product" value to KyoAni. K-On! did a good job generating the sort of sales numbers Haruhi did but never had the same cachet in terms of promoting the KyoAni brand (IMO), which is why KyoAni's sales have declined a bit post K-On.
As relentless said, this is overhyped in the majority of the Western fanbase. I see it mentioned somewhat on 2ch, but not nearly as much as international fans. It's not reflected on the studio itself, but more about the franchise (and more specifically Kadokawa). There are alternative reasons for later sales (I mentioned specifically Nichijou, Hyouka, and Tamako Market earlier) that have absolutely nothing to do with KyoAni. People act as if KyoAni had this giant fanbase supporting every single one of their shows, when Nichijou showed that there wasn't a giant set of KyoAni fans in comparison to Key fans. People bought those shows because...they liked those shows and wanted specifically to own those shows. Due to other factors, later shows haven't captured the "want to own" desire earlier shows had.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I think he does well to clarify some of the myths around KyoAni, but there are certain statements I can't agree by. The assertion that Kadokawa has the ultimate say on whether more Haruhi or FMP is green lighted is not incorrect, but also doesn't paint the whole picture. Does KyoAni have a contract with Kadokawa that says that they have to animate what they tell them to animate? From what I know Kadokawa doesn't own KyoAni, so if KyoAni themselves don't want to do it, it's just not going to happen. Judging from their actions over the past year or two where they're trying to create their own inhouse resource of anime originals, this is very possible.

Plus, I'd be hard pressed to believe that if KyoAni requested to Kadokawa that they'd like to make more Haruhi (Dunno about FMP) that Kadokawa would flat out say no. I'm sure given their reptuation and the previous success of the franchise, and the amount of years and material we have that they would seriously consider KyoAni's input and probably give it the go ahead. Unless the argument here is that Kadokawa is just flat out stupid, then that's another topic of discussion.

Of course, we don't know as we are not insiders into the companies. However, you just got to believe that KyoAni has a lot of say in the matter, and so I don't think it's incorrect for people to put responsibility on KyoAni for there not being more Haruhi. Sure, you could say that perhaps it is both KyoAni and Kadokawa's fault, but if KyoAni REALLY wanted to do it, would Kadokawa stop them? I would wager a bet, no.
Basically, the point Yuyucow eschews for readability is the purpose of the production committee. Going into the big discussions, the major parties know what title is going to be animated, and what's left is the "how." As a big factor in the production committees they've been a part of (following Haruhi), KyoAni has enough power to request titles from Kadokawa they want to animate and in return Kadokawa may request they animate other things (like Haruhi-chan or Nichijou). Takemoto himself even said he wanted to animate Hyouka specifically.

I think what's constantly being ignored is the internal/external production origin that's been shifted over the past year from KyoAni. Previously, everything but Munto was created by someone outside of KyoAni and they had no big rights ownership of that project. Once they started Chuunibyou, we've now seen a shift from animating something someone else has the rights (and therefore most of the revenue) into animating something originating from within the company (via the Kyoto Animation Awards everyone loves to mock). Instead of getting a small piece of a big pie (from Haruhi/K-On!) via animation budget and royalties from merch/disc/music sales, KyoAni invests more into the project and gets back a much higher percentage not only from merch/disc/music, but from LN sales/rights ownership.

Obviously we don't have any concrete numbers, but wouldn't you imagine they got more in return from Chuunibyou (likely averaging 15k sold) than Kanon (averaged 18k sold) though each of them were about the same success-wise? That's why I have little expectations we'll see adaptations from them in the future like we have in the past (and why I doubt we'll see an adaptation of anything beyond FMP). It makes little sense business-wise.
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Old 2013-04-27, 18:14   Link #1802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatemegax View Post
Instead of getting a small piece of a big pie (from Haruhi/K-On!) via animation budget and royalties from merch/disc/music sales, KyoAni invests more into the project and gets back a much higher percentage not only from merch/disc/music, but from LN sales/rights ownership.

Obviously we don't have any concrete numbers, but wouldn't you imagine they got more in return from Chuunibyou (likely averaging 15k sold) than Kanon (averaged 18k sold) though each of them were about the same success-wise?
Yeah, this point really can't be understated. Tracking raw sales numbers is one thing, but what really matters is how the revenue is distributed. This is why I share your interest in seeing who else is on the Free! Production Committee (beyond ABC and Lantis, that we know, though I'm guessing it may still be Kadokawa this time). With the strides Kyoto Animation has been making on the distribution front, the day could come where they could essentially handle all aspects from end-to-end, only partnering with TV stations for broadcast. I think they're not quite there yet, but if you look at all the strides they've been making over the last 5 years, it definitely seems to be where they're heading one step at a time. And I imagine that's sort of the holy grail for many animation studios: to be in complete control of all your projects, calling the shots on what you do, interacting directly with the audience (not the rightsholders and their editorial departments), and reaping all the rewards of success when it happens. This really puts them up in the big leagues as an IP powerhouse, and not just a really talented sub-contractor.

(I do think they'll still continue to keep working with Kadokawa and TBS/Pony Canyon, though, if nothing else out of a sort of loyalty... even if they more or less use them to push their own franchises and those other companies keep a smaller portion of the pie.)
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Old 2013-04-27, 18:52   Link #1803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
That aside, I imagine this blog post will be making the rounds, and probably worth a read in terms of some of the most egregious of the KyoAni myths (many of which have already been discussed here). I don't think it captures everything perfectly, but it's a good read anyway.
The problem is for an information about clearing up myths there are things that are inaccurate in that blog post.

The post says that Free! is not the first Kyoani series for women because K-ON happened to be popular with a female audience.

But K-ON was not created with a female audience in mind it just happened to work well with that audience.

In the same was Kuroko no Basket was also not targeted at girls but is also popular with that demographic

Or PreCure is not targeted at men but has become popular with that audience.

Just because a series reaches outside its original target demographic does not mean that was the target demographic.

So yes Free! is the first series Kyoani made for women and saying so is not a myth.

And no some hot spring fanservice in Hyouka doesn't count. There was fanservice of the girls in the first ending sequence too (of course Hyouka itself was in general pretty free of any fanservice).

Although I am not going to argue that maybe Kyoani just wanted to make this series and it had nothing to do with wanting to try another demographic.
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Old 2013-04-27, 19:06   Link #1804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
The post says that Free! is not the first Kyoani series for women because K-ON happened to be popular with a female audience.

But K-ON was not created with a female audience in mind it just happened to work well with that audience.

[...]

Just because a series reaches outside its original target demographic does not mean that was the target demographic.

So yes Free! is the first series Kyoani made for women and saying so is not a myth.
I think things aren't in such a narrow box. I mean, I think K-On! is simply a show that multiple audiences can enjoy. I don't think they restricted the show and said "we only want this to appeal to guys" and then were somehow surprised when women and girls enjoyed it too. Sometimes you just make a show around certain themes and it finds its audience. I mean, after all, shounen action is still one of the most popular genres of anime across both genders. I don't think there's anything about Hyouka, Chuunibyou, or Tamako Market (as examples) that would preclude them from appealing to either gender (even though the advertising/promo may focus more on appealing to one audience or another).

I think a similar thing applies to Free!. I mean, yes, the limited promo material we're seeing now seems to suggest that the show will appeal to women/girls, but that doesn't mean the show can't have an appeal beyond that audience too. Calling the show "made for women" based only on what we've got so far is rather constricting.

So, while I get what you're saying if you're being literal, I think the point is more that we shouldn't be so hung-up on demographics and labels. They've made works that have had considerable appeal among a female audience before, whether it was specifically "targeted" at them or not.
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Old 2013-04-27, 19:16   Link #1805
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I am not hung up on labels I never said people can't enjoy something beyond the target demographic. I also never said the studio has to be surprised when they get an audience outside that demographic.

But it does annoy me when people confuse audience with demographic. They are different things.

So yes Free! is Kyoani's first show targeting women and I think that it is a nice thing. I am always happy when something is made with me specifically in mind.

That doesn't mean I thought Kyoani shows before weren't for me or they were "boy only clubs". I highly enjoyed both Haruhi and Hyouka.

And just because I think Free! is being made with women in mind doesn't mean I think guys can't enjoy it as well. In fact I find that type of thought stupid.
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Old 2013-04-27, 20:37   Link #1806
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I don't wanna live in this world anymore.

Seriously I don't want to be playing smartass or advocate.... But this makes everything hard to swallow as someone is really taking credit from something that wasn't born of their own hardwork.

If only there was someway to get that blog post some needed attention. I really wanna rip my hair off seeing how CR follows through with this bullshit.

I'm praying really hard karma strikes CR soon enough.

Quote:
You know what would be the funniest thing?
If Funimation got to simulcast this instead.
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Old 2013-04-27, 21:02   Link #1807
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I think most of us here are aware that CR's publicity stunt did jack squat in the grand scheme of things anyway and as long people here aren't deluded enough to fall for it I'm relatively satisfied. Although it does irk me a little that they're acting all high and mighty because of it...
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Old 2013-04-27, 21:06   Link #1808
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Clearly we've been underestimating the influence of the western market on animation studios in the east...
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Old 2013-04-27, 21:16   Link #1809
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Originally Posted by brocko View Post
I think most of us here are aware that CR's publicity stunt did jack squat in the grand scheme of things anyway and as long people here aren't deluded enough to fall for it I'm relatively satisfied. Although it does irk me a little that they're acting all high and mighty because of it...
Now I know that it's impossible to educate everyone but, this company needs to get told off. I have annoying urge to slam the truth in their face.

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Originally Posted by yellowscarves View Post
Clearly we've been underestimating the influence of the western market on animation studios in the east...
Care to clarify?
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Old 2013-04-27, 21:16   Link #1810
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^ I think this spread of misinformation is going to be the biggest headaches that comes from it.... -_-

Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowscarves View Post
Clearly we've been underestimating the influence of the western market on animation studios in the east...
Or rather that certain western sites are overestimating their own influences instead. If you weren't joking with that comment then read the third paragraph in this, the one sandwiched between the two images.
http://vanishingtrooper.wordpress.co...-kyoani-myths/
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Old 2013-04-27, 21:19   Link #1811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brocko View Post
^ I think this spread of misinformation is going to be the biggest headaches that comes from it.... -_-
Hopefully there'll be something about the length of time it's been in planning in the Newtype article next month. I hope to translate it like I did for Tamako.
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Old 2013-04-27, 21:22   Link #1812
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I just hope people wise up and see the light eventually, but getting official word from the producers themselves would discredit the whole thing entirely.
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Old 2013-04-27, 21:31   Link #1813
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If you weren't joking
I was. I recently watched one of those videos on Youtube showing an artist sketching out frames for Tamako Market (I believe), and it looked like a ton of work. If Free is being released this summer, then it had to have been in development before that petition.

I hope CR is joking too (though it'd be annoying regardless), because they should really know better.
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Old 2013-04-27, 21:35   Link #1814
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I hope CR is joking too (though it'd be annoying regardless), because they should really know better.
No they're not... Well they might be, but they're playing it long enough to make it a truth.

I don't think they're about to do any clarification of some sort regarding this matter. On their own accord that is....
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Old 2013-04-27, 21:38   Link #1815
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I find it really hard to believe that CR wouldn't know better, especially when they're dealing with licensing and simulcasts on a regular basis. Which coincidentally makes their whole PR charade fall in further bad light. I don't mind if people are just having fun because of it, but instead it seems like they're pushing this agenda quite seriously and the misinformation is only going to hurt the community more so than it helps.
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Old 2013-04-27, 22:07   Link #1816
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The insinuation they're making is that they already knew about the pending announcement (their comment "We actually made a trip to KyoAni"). So that means that the entire petition thing was a stunt in every sense; not only the insinuation that the petition made any difference (which is impossible), but the fact that they even knew the show was already scheduled (so there was no chance the "petition" would "fail"). It's basically just a marketing campaign that helps to build a little hype for an upcoming show even before it's announced, and no doubt Crunchyroll has already secured the streaming rights for said show. Of course, it's still based on an entirely-false premise and spreads misinformation among the fanbase.
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Old 2013-04-27, 22:24   Link #1817
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
The insinuation they're making is that they already knew about the pending announcement (their comment "We actually made a trip to KyoAni"). So that means that the entire petition thing was a stunt in every sense; not only the insinuation that the petition made any difference (which is impossible), but the fact that they even knew the show was already scheduled (so there was no chance the "petition" would "fail"). It's basically just a marketing campaign that helps to build a little hype for an upcoming show even before it's announced, and no doubt Crunchyroll has already secured the streaming rights for said show. Of course, it's still based on an entirely-false premise and spreads misinformation among the fanbase.
Then this just further solidifies that it's a blatant bullshit and not just some misunderstanding brought upon themselves out of their own their ignorant actions.

Also I don't think it's surely secured yet. I really hope it isn't. What are the chances of other companies like Funimation nabbing this one.
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Old 2013-04-27, 22:28   Link #1818
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There have been instances of more than one official party simulcasting a show. So for simulcasting purposes, a show isn't always entirely exclusive to the one company.
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Old 2013-04-27, 22:31   Link #1819
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Well personally despite all this drama I HOPE it is CR that gets the streaming rights.

CR's streaming quality is 10 times better than Funimation. And if Funi gets it there is no chance for non-US fans to see it.
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Old 2013-04-27, 22:32   Link #1820
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There have been instances of more than one official party simulcasting a show. So for simulcasting purposes, a show isn't always entirely exclusive to the one company.
While that can happen, with the shows I encountered way back; most of the time when Funimation has it, Crunchyroll doesn't.
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