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Old 2004-02-20, 12:50   Link #1
Kurara
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People who hate anime/fans

Have you guys noticed how frequent it is to meet people who are completely against anime and disgusted with anime? I bet you noticed it. I have. And it seems to be getting worse these days.. I'm just trying to understand why.

A lot of friends and acquaintances that I met a long time ago were big anime fans.. And suddenly, when they got older and entered college or got out of college, they lost interest in it and started bashing it. There also seems to be a huge anti-anime clique on the internet. I don't take these websites seriously but I often find anti-anime websites that use really ridiculous arguments.. Well. The people I know who dislike anime always use arguments like: "it's full of questionable content" [ I won't get into this, you know what I mean ] or "All the characters are stereotypical" or "Anime is basically marketting, it's only made to appeal to a certain audience" etc. etc...

As much as I disagree with their arguments, I realize that they can prove their arguments well. Which is why sometimes I don't know what to say to defend my interest.. I can respond to their arguments because I often feel that it's not true.. But also sometimes I feel that there's a very small, very tiny part of truth in them.. By example, yes, the characters can appear stereotypical if you look at them in a certain way.. But I've never seen two characters that were the same in anime or manga series.. There's always big differences even if they belong to the same archetype.. But still. It's not obvious.. But it's very hard to know what's true or not about anime when you don't live in Japan, and most of all when you aren't the creator of that anime. ^^;; I personally really love anime for many personal reasons.. But this is my main problem with it.

What do you guys think? Do you ever get into situations like these, and what do you say? I also wonder why it seems to be so "un-cool" these days... It seems that people are overcritical of anime. I have ideas why this is becoming this way, and why it's always been that way.. But I don't like how people have a negative view of it.
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Old 2004-02-20, 13:05   Link #2
Yebyosh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurara
Have you guys noticed how frequent it is to meet people who are completely against anime and disgusted with anime? I bet you noticed it. I have. And it seems to be getting worse these days.. I'm just trying to understand why.

A lot of friends and acquaintances that I met a long time ago were big anime fans.. And suddenly, when they got older and entered college or got out of college, they lost interest in it and started bashing it. There also seems to be a huge anti-anime clique on the internet. I don't take these websites seriously but I often find anti-anime websites that use really ridiculous arguments.. Well. The people I know who dislike anime always use arguments like: "it's full of questionable content" [ I won't get into this, you know what I mean ] or "All the characters are stereotypical" or "Anime is basically marketting, it's only made to appeal to a certain audience" etc. etc...

As much as I disagree with their arguments, I realize that they can prove their arguments well. Which is why sometimes I don't know what to say to defend my interest.. I can respond to their arguments because I often feel that it's not true.. But also sometimes I feel that there's a very small, very tiny part of truth in them.. By example, yes, the characters can appear stereotypical if you look at them in a certain way.. But I've never seen two characters that were the same in anime or manga series.. There's always big differences even if they belong to the same archetype.. But still. It's not obvious.. But it's very hard to know what's true or not about anime when you don't live in Japan, and most of all when you aren't the creator of that anime. ^^;; I personally really love anime for many personal reasons.. But this is my main problem with it.

What do you guys think? Do you ever get into situations like these, and what do you say? I also wonder why it seems to be so "un-cool" these days... It seems that people are overcritical of anime. I have ideas why this is becoming this way, and why it's always been that way.. But I don't like how people have a negative view of it.
Anime is just a media for presenting ideas, storylines and entertainment. That's all the argument you need. Why? Books are a similar media but lack the visual component and encourages the imagination. Comics (manga) does the same but deadens down the imagination part since you have pictures to fulfill it for you. It also tends to bring down the pace/content a bit because it is harder (physically) to fill up pages of drawings and text. Mangas are quite limited in their author's vision of physical scenes.

The best argument that can be laid down will be films. In case you haven't notice, animes are films. If anyone can say anime suck, ask him what's the difference then between Evangelion & Terminator 3? Perfect Blue & Flashdance? The difference is that anime depicts high fiction due to the fact that the animators can draw the scenes that special fx cannot replicate realistically. But now with CG, the gap is closing and dare we not say that most of the crappy CG films these days highly resemble some of the crappy anime series?

Perhaps the people who disdain anime have been badly burnt by the rejection of their dreams. They seek to pass the poison apple they consumed down to others. Perhaps they have an elitist syndrome based on the stereotype that 'anime are for kids'. This is partially true only because the primary influence of the world now tends to view comics as a kid's hobby. Best argument against that is "Yep, films then must be for adults. Wanna watch Barney's Amazing Pancakes again?". Of course there are also some that specifically pick on anime because it is a Japanese subculture.

As long as we know that anime is nothing special on its own but rather a subset of the media, you can take a stance against the simple anime haters. All their stance over "questionable content", "marketing tool", etc can be taken apart this way.
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Old 2004-02-20, 13:09   Link #3
babbito2k
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Why should people argue about anime? It does exist, and some people watch it because they like it. I can't see where there is room for argument there.

It is true that some people have beliefs about anime (whether they watch it or not), i.e. "anime is anti-American," "anime is intellectually challenging," "anime is better than/worse than x," etc. Having beliefs about anime is a waste of time IMO and only leads to suffering, disappointment and hurt feelings. Maybe some of the people you know who stopped watching anime are like that, maybe not. But how are you gonna argue belief systems?

Anything you do in your free time is up to you, as long as you are not causing anyone else to suffer (which includes proselytizing and annoying people about it). Not everyone is going to want to join you in whatever it is. That's life. Having intense feelings about what other people say is not a good sign. There is no reason why you need to be a "true believer" in anime.
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Old 2004-02-20, 13:12   Link #4
Kurara
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I think you are perfectly right about the elitism thing.. But one thing that I really don't get, is that most of the time, they don't see anything wrong with American or European comics and yet they bash anime. Some people I know who were big comic fans really disliked anime. .. That includes a teacher I've had. He loved obscure comics and some more popular European series.. But he kept talking about anime as a bad thing.

I've also heard many people bash anime fans in general.. I've even heard some people call anime fans "stupid teenagers", "sick perverts" and other things like that. I think it's stupid and unjustified, but still.. I feel concerned by it. x_x;; Not because I care what I think, but because it's sometimes annoying to always have to defend my interests.

I guess it's a bit like people who bash video games..

I also agree with you that some people already had a bad feeling about anime only because it's a Japanese subculture. It seems that sometimes, the controversy related to anime has to do with it.. A while ago, all adults I knew looked at me in a strange way if I said I liked anime. They would say completely false things like "Women get treated badly in anime because in Japan women are considered objects" and stupid things like that.. x.x;;; It's sometimes quite annoying if you see what I mean..

Quote:
Originally Posted by babbito2k
Why should people argue about anime? It does exist, and some people watch it because they like it. I can't see where there is room for argument there.

It is true that some people have beliefs about anime (whether they watch it or not), i.e. "anime is anti-American," "anime is intellectually challenging," "anime is better than/worse than x," etc. Having beliefs about anime is a waste of time IMO and only leads to suffering, disappointment and hurt feelings. Maybe some of the people you know who stopped watching anime are like that, maybe not. But how are you gonna argue belief systems?

Anything you do in your free time is up to you, as long as you are not causing anyone else to suffer (which includes proselytizing and annoying people about it). Not everyone is going to want to join you in whatever it is. That's life. Having intense feelings about what other people say is not a good sign. There is no reason why you need to be a "true believer" in anime.
Yeah, that's also true. ^^;
I don't try to convert people into anime or try to force them to think it's good. x_x;; Because I would hate if people were doing the same with me.. I don't want anyone to like something they don't like or to change their opinions about it..
I don't care what people I know think about anime, like I said earlier... I'm just more bothered about the false things. I know it's a bad example, but it's like if someone said something mean about a person you know that you really like...

I'm mainly talking about people who will pick fights with me about it [ when we weren't talking about that ] or start saying really negative and false things to anime to me.. And a lot of times they're completely false things.
I don't usually argue about it at all, either. But sometimes it gets really annoying...

I guess I shouldn't worry about this.. And I think I used the wrong title.. At first I used "People who are against anime" but I wasn't sure what people would think so I changed it..
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Old 2004-02-20, 13:35   Link #5
babbito2k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurara
I'm mainly talking about people who will pick fights with me about it [ when we weren't talking about that ] or start saying really negative and false things to anime to me.. And a lot of times they're completely false things.
I don't usually argue about it at all, either. But sometimes it gets really annoying...
Picking fights about something is a sign of bad manners, which reflects poorly on the person picking the fight and not at all on the subject discussed. The purpose of picking a fight is to provoke someone, so it is not surprising that you would find such behavior provocative. However, the best and politest course is to recognize and ignore the provocation. If you feel it is necessary, there is nothing wrong with shunning acquaintances who persist in seeking to relate to you in this fashion.
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Old 2004-02-20, 14:04   Link #6
Kurara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babbito2k
Picking fights about something is a sign of bad manners, which reflects poorly on the person picking the fight and not at all on the subject discussed. The purpose of picking a fight is to provoke someone, so it is not surprising that you would find such behavior provocative. However, the best and politest course is to recognize and ignore the provocation. If you feel it is necessary, there is nothing wrong with shunning acquaintances who persist in seeking to relate to you in this fashion.
Well, it's hard to see the difference sometimes. If you tell someone that you like anime, and they start talking about how sexist anime is or how much anime is stereotypical and only marketting for perverted teenagers, I think there's a fine line between the person just saying their opinion or being provocative, you know what I mean? If someone just says they don't like anime or that they find anime too childish or too simple, it won't bother me. It's just their opinion.. It's mainly when they start using "facts" like I was talking about earlier...

But you're probably right.. I should probably ignore these people. Which is what I usually do... But I don't know.
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Old 2004-02-20, 14:31   Link #7
babbito2k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurara
Well, it's hard to see the difference sometimes. If you tell someone that you like anime, and they start talking about how sexist anime is or how much anime is stereotypical and only marketting for perverted teenagers, I think there's a fine line between the person just saying their opinion or being provocative, you know what I mean? If someone just says they don't like anime or that they find anime too childish or too simple, it won't bother me. It's just their opinion.. It's mainly when they start using "facts" like I was talking about earlier...

But you're probably right.. I should probably ignore these people. Which is what I usually do... But I don't know.
You said before that people introduced the topic just to have something negative to say about it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurara
I'm mainly talking about people who will pick fights with me about it [ when we weren't talking about that ]
I think you can see that that is just not the same as responding to you when you bring it up, especially if they already know your feelings about the subject.

Or someone may say, "how do you feel about x?" and then jump on you when you give an opinion. That's ambushing and is just rude as all get out. Noone deserves to be treated that way.

People are certainly entitled to give a reasonably brief opinion about a topic you mention. But you are entitled to change the topic if you find that there is no likelihood of a reasonable dialogue coming out of it.

It is understandable that you and many other people may not be aware of what constitutes a fair discussion or argument. There are plenty of examples in the media of bad behavior on the part of radio talk show hosts and the like. I myself am guilty of having browbeaten people. Fortunately I read up and learned something about the subject of conversational etiquette and have tried to mend my ways.
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Old 2004-02-20, 15:28   Link #8
Kurara
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I see what you mean when you say that it's not the same to pick a fight with someone and to just give their opinions.. But I think that there's rude ways to say your opinions too. .. I mean, I know there's a difference between the two types of conversations.. But I'll let you know that most of the time this happens when one person I know starts whining about anime out of the blue.

But the problem here isn't argumentation.. ^^;; I don't seek to argue with anyone about this, and I never really have... I was just wondering why anime has such a bad reputation, and why people have so many misconceptions about it.. You see what I mean? And this is not at all often in conversations I have with my friends.. a lot of times, some people talk about it around me and I don't take part in the conversation, but I still notice how much they have a negative view of anime... That's what I meant. I wasn't really complaining either, sorry if I made it sound like that.. I guess it's partly me being curious.. And it's also the fact that I don't understand people's reaction a lot of times..
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Old 2004-02-20, 16:29   Link #9
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It only frustrates me when people who don't like anime say that anime is all the same, and that it all anime look the same. :/
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Old 2004-02-20, 18:16   Link #10
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Personally, you should ask them why they like what they watch, in some cases they like their shows for the same reason you like anime. That's my response to most questions like that. Most people don't realize that everyone gets their influence from somewhere/one. To me, bashing anime is like bashing my career choice, I chose to become an engineer after getting addicted to Robotech. Anime is nice b/c I find it kind of stupid watching something I know can't happen happen in live action. It's a nice smooth transision whenever I watch anime b/c I already know that it can't happen so I'm not disappointed when the scene looks fake. I think that your friends are just looking for something to gang up on. Anime is an easy target due to the fan base. They see Pokemon, Digimon, Sailormoon and guys dressed up as scouts, and everything that annoys them. Most don't get past the violence or nudity. I had to watch Ghost in the Shell 2-3 times to finally grasp the meaning of it. Perfect Blue is another mind bender. NGE is a whole thing in itself. They don't get that not all the shows out there cater to children or pedophiles(sp). Until people can realize that there are more than just action or teen age genres out there, they're just being close-minded to the art form itself.
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Old 2004-02-20, 18:57   Link #11
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They dont know anything about anime, but still they say that they hate it... its annoying...very
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Old 2004-02-20, 20:09   Link #12
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you either like it or you hate it. Some people just judge to quickly
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Old 2004-02-20, 20:09   Link #13
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How in the world is anime any different than any other form of entertainment media out there? All the points they may bring up can just as easily be turned around to any other form of entertainment, so they don't really have an "argument" at all. They're either just trying to get a rise out of you, or trying to feel superior about themselves (or both). People who argue against other peoples' interests are immature anyways, and to even concede they have a point gives them power over you. All you need to say is "Oh well, I like it", and that's that. If they keep arguing with you about it, they're not worth your time. All they want to do is judge you. (That doesn't mean it's easy to ignore or not frustrating, of course.)

If someone were seriously interested in talking about anime with you, they'd probably take a more inquisitive approach. "Don't you think that characters in any are stereotypical?" "Don't you think it all looks the same?" "Don't you think there's a lot of perverted stuff in anime?" Someone like this may be worth your time, if you want to discuss it with them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yebyosh
Anime is just a media for presenting ideas, storylines and entertainment. That's all the argument you need.
Bingo.
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Old 2004-02-20, 22:27   Link #14
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This is familiar subject matter to me. When I was growing up, I was the lone anime fan. I had absolutely NO freinds that enjoyed anime until my last year of high school, and I had to take a 30 minute drive just to hang out with said friends... Of course, a good portion of this is due to growing up in a small city in Hell... Whoops! I mean Arkansas. The majority reaction was one of these:

1. "You still like cartoons?!?!"
2. "Geez, what a geek..."
3. "You should go watch a something good, like 'Porky's'..."

Anyway, and most of those came with a harsh southern draw and a mind that was about as open as a steel reinforced vault door... All the previously stated arguments in this forum don't seem to work on morons and fools... I'm envious of all of you that are still in your early teens in high school that don't have to deal with that kind of crap.
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Old 2004-02-20, 23:08   Link #15
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I've had an acquaintance from Japan who didn't like anime that much because many people just automatically assumed that if you were from Japan that you would like anime. It's like if you're from the United States and visit some foreign country and they automatically assume you like basketball or something.
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Old 2004-02-20, 23:10   Link #16
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I hate fan boys and fan girls. To clearify the one how learn japanese just to watch the raws. Those types of people. Who believe that Anime is the ultimate form of entertainment. And have the belief that American companys rap off ideas from anime. That does happen but Atlantis from Disney was a rip off from Nadia. It was based off of the legend. You get the picture of the people in the anime community that I don't like. But as for the question at hand... Different people have different tastes. In concludion I like anime, but I don't like some people who watch it.

If I offended some people well..... GOOD!
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Old 2004-02-20, 23:13   Link #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
How in the world is anime any different than any other form of entertainment media out there? All the points they may bring up can just as easily be turned around to any other form of entertainment, so they don't really have an "argument" at all. They're either just trying to get a rise out of you, or trying to feel superior about themselves (or both). People who argue against other peoples' interests are immature anyways, and to even concede they have a point gives them power over you. All you need to say is "Oh well, I like it", and that's that. If they keep arguing with you about it, they're not worth your time. All they want to do is judge you. (That doesn't mean it's easy to ignore or not frustrating, of course.)

If someone were seriously interested in talking about anime with you, they'd probably take a more inquisitive approach. "Don't you think that characters in any are stereotypical?" "Don't you think it all looks the same?" "Don't you think there's a lot of perverted stuff in anime?" Someone like this may be worth your time, if you want to discuss it with them.
Well, if someone talks to me about anime like that.. In an inquisitive way.. I don't mind discussing it because it just means they want to talk about it or to have my opinion on a certain aspect.

And I know that they are judging me.. And judging all anime fans and anime itself.. ^^;; I'm not saying that I'm a huge defender of anime :P 'cause I'm not.. But it's like when a person comes and says "Video games are all violent and stupid" or "Most RPG females are the same and they're badly treated" [ Yes, someone said that to me before :P ] When it's about anime, it's not different.. I mean, I named some of the things people said earlier.. They do have the right to have their opinions.. But I'm not really sure how to react to this usually X_X
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Old 2004-02-20, 23:13   Link #18
hunterx
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don't argue with people when they hate something like anime. It's like people who hate this kind or that kind of music. it's their personal taste. they don't like it so what? you like it. You're never going to convince them that anime is good, and they aren't going to convince you it is bad, so change the subject and talk about something else
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Old 2004-02-20, 23:26   Link #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corp20
I hate fan boys and fan girls. To clearify the one how learn japanese just to watch the raws. Those types of people. Who believe that Anime is the ultimate form of entertainment. And have the belief that American companys rap off ideas from anime. That does happen but Atlantis from Disney was a rip off from Nadia. It was based off of the legend. You get the picture of the people in the anime community that I don't like. But as for the question at hand... Different people have different tastes. In concludion I like anime, but I don't like some people who watch it.

If I offended some people well..... GOOD!
Don't get me started on the whole Disney thing LOL (evil disney). I agree with what everyone is saying. But people who haven't really seen it should keep their mouths shut. There isn't anything wrong with anime, there aren't trying to warp ur minds. But whatever i ignore people who can't argue.
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Old 2004-02-20, 23:33   Link #20
Tzurial
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corp20
In conclusion I like anime, but I don't like some people who watch it.
I -really- have to agree with this statement. I dont get along with half of the people Ive met that also like anime. I dunno if Ive just met the leechy sort of people who only love me for drawing skills (OMG draw duo for me! DUO'S MINE!! Ill fight jooo!!) but I really wish they would just die. Any way..getting off topic

As for people who hate anime, Ive only gotten the 'your a dork' argument and I really dont mind, cuz..well, its true. But I can see how youd get upset, or atleast a little frustrated with people arguing it with misinformed (or biased) information.
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