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Old 2004-02-20, 23:37   Link #21
LinChoiSin
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one shouldn't be annoyed by what other people say,people will always talk and they'll usually bash what they don't like.
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Old 2004-02-20, 23:43   Link #22
Slade xTekno
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It's weird to hear all this because I have a relatively large fanbase where I live. I've experienced it a little before, but not nearly as much as everyone is saying [I'm in high school].
When they ask me about, I tell them it's like any sitcom on TV in the US during the day or at night, except instead of hiring actors, they hire artists. Also, I contrast it from American cartoons in the fact that most [all] anime has a storyline, and normally can't stand alone like American cartoons can. They end up leaving the argument with a relatively neutral, even interested viewpoint [if so, I invite them to our Anime Club].
However, I do run into the people that just couldn't care what I say and keep talking crap about anime anyway. Just let them rant, because those types just won't change. They are just afraid of/uncomfortable with what they know nothing about.
Oh, and I agree with the one that didn't like otaku [in the Japanese sense]. Anime should be a hobby or interest, not an obsession.
Note: No public anime showing will go without heckling. [from "All I ever learned, I learned from anime," which you can see at http://www.abcb.com/misc/latt_03.htm. It's a funny list of anime stereotypes.]
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Old 2004-02-20, 23:53   Link #23
dmg022
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To me, I find Japanese Culture very interesting to an extend that sometimes I even wish I was borned in Japan. Personally, I feel that American comics can't even compare to mangas. I am very determined to learn Japanese to finally watch raws and understand at least 90%.

Anime/Manga is one of the best forms of entertainment out there. I honestly agree with someone out there that said that he disliked people who said all anime looked alike. This is basically one prove to say that they just take a glance at it and judge it, which is simply pure childish behaviour.

Who cares about the culture in shows, especially anime. As long as it sells well, with a good storyline, people will be willing to watch it. People who stay away from something that is different from their culture is just being arrogant and racism. Or rather, it's one of the excuses that someone would use when they can't come out with anything else.

I realized sometime back then, that when you like something, you will name as many "excuses" or reasons to like it, and while you hate something, it's just like the opposite.

I think anime-haters deserves to be chained, tortured and slaughtered. Well, not anime-haters, ( i agree that everyone has their opinions ), only those that don't know much about how GREAT anime is, and comment like they know everything.
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Old 2004-02-21, 00:08   Link #24
JubeiYamazaki
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I live in Southern California, next to the asian/Japanese area of my district, so I've never had anything like that happen to myself, since everyone here is pretty much open-minded to anime. The only real anime arguements I go through are really vs. debates.

Ironically, as much as I love anime/manga I find myself defending american comic books, and american artists. And being a comic book writer myself, I get offended when a bunch of Otakus or anime "elitiests" begin bashing something they, themselves never gave a chance. So techincally I live in your world, but just the opposite.

When stuff like Akira, Ninja Scroll and hentai gets thrown towards a country that's never experienced Japanese animation before its hard for the common public to look beyond that, meaning that the first impression is always the most important. Even now people continue to stick with those views, and its been more then 8-9 years. And the flow of americanized anime (Yugioh, Pokemon etc. etc.) on the otherhand, was a hopeful attempt to change the sterotype that anime is limbs getting cut off with rape and tenticle scenes in the middle, but instead created another sterotype that anime is kiddy, so its either over the top or too childish. So there's no middle-man to the normal person. So what I suggest is giving them a list of shows, and just counter-back their claims with shows that deal with everything opposite of what they're suggesting. Other then that, just ignore them.
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Old 2004-02-21, 02:06   Link #25
Lee-pimp
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really the only reason most people i know that hate anime hate it is because i live in america and here in america watching anime coinsides with watching like yu gi oh or pokemon shows like that and its considered a kids thing but i dont see any fith graders watching shows like love hina or berserk. so like i said most peoples reasons here are that its a kids thing where if they see some good anime that wasnt fuck*d up by the american editing companies they might decide otherwise
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Old 2004-02-21, 02:55   Link #26
Z'd Jung
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmg022
To me, I find Japanese Culture very interesting to an extend that sometimes I even wish I was borned in Japan. Personally, I feel that American comics can't even compare to mangas...
Gotta agree with that

But like Lee-Pimp said, most people I know figure that Anime would consist of Pokemon, Dragonball, Sailormoon, etc kids stuff or Anime so upped in editing that it becomes kid stuff and very unlike the original. Its the general view most people outside of East and South-East Asia hold for Anime because that's how our various broad casting companies here in the West see and thus protray Anime.
Kids Stuff.

Still, I haven't actually met anyone who HATES Anime, dislike it, bash it when they think Anime fans become too serious or overprotective yeah but not HATE it.

I'm trying to raise awareness here anyway, to show eaht 'true' Anime is. It usually doesn't take much, just show them an Anime that is as general aas possible, yet have sufficient quality and impact so as not to make it boring, like FMP fumoffu (Woohoo!) usually works. But that's the thing about Anime isn't it? Its a visual/audio drug, once you're properly hooked, you're hooked for life.
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Old 2004-02-21, 11:23   Link #27
delta9
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I get the same type of reaction from people about anime and marijuana. All they say is ignorant crap they saw on T.V.

For example last week someone said to me "anime? you mean pokemon and stuff like that, isn't that for little kids?" and this guy who watches anime said to me "what you smoke marijuana you must be a dumbass!, don't you know it's bad for you, kills your brain cells and makes you a retard"

I wouldn't give a shit wtf people say unless they are close friends/family, then I woluld try to convince them by making them watch an anime I think they would like. Convincing people about marijuana isn't as easy, first I pressure them to try it and make them eat some food and listen to music, then they'll realize how good it is and won't care about the crap on media and eventually start to believe what I say. This worked a few times with me, now I have more friends who watches anime's and get stoned.
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Old 2004-02-21, 12:50   Link #28
Kurara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterx
don't argue with people when they hate something like anime. It's like people who hate this kind or that kind of music. it's their personal taste. they don't like it so what? you like it. You're never going to convince them that anime is good, and they aren't going to convince you it is bad, so change the subject and talk about something else
That's not the point though..
Like I said earlier, I don't care if they hate or like anime. I don't want anyone to like anime if they don't... If they don't like it, they don't and that's all. A lot of people I know hate the music I listen to, and I really couldn't care less.. My post wasn't about that at all.... Besides, I never said that I argue with people about it..

What bothers me is that they have a false image of it. [ Violent, extremely perverted, marketting, etc. etc.. ] And they bash it a lot when they don't necessarily know that much about it... It's mainly that anime has a bad reputation.. And I understand why, but at the same time I don't..

If they had a correct image of what anime is.. [ Which is a bit subjective, I admit ^^;; ] I'm very aware that they wouldn't like it any more... And I agree that some things are just opinions, but some things that people think are often very false to me..

I wouldn't say I'm overprotective of anime.. Maybe I'm overprotective of all my interests, and anime isn't an exception.. But I didn't mean to appear as some whiny annoying anime fanatic =/

Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiYamazaki
I live in Southern California, next to the asian/Japanese area of my district, so I've never had anything like that happen to myself, since everyone here is pretty much open-minded to anime. The only real anime arguements I go through are really vs. debates.

Ironically, as much as I love anime/manga I find myself defending american comic books, and american artists. And being a comic book writer myself, I get offended when a bunch of Otakus or anime "elitiests" begin bashing something they, themselves never gave a chance. So techincally I live in your world, but just the opposite.
I see what you mean about the comic thing. I have to say that I'm not one of those people.. I really don't think anime is some sort of god that everyone should worship.. And I -really- don't think anime is any better than other comics. I read many other comics .. European and some American. I prefer anime for personal reasons but I'll never ever dare say that anime is better.. However I know several people who will say that anime is horrible compared to other comics.. x.x;;

^_^;; I'll remind again.. I don't get into actual arguments about this with people..... It's just that if someone says something false about it and that person is one of my friends, yes, I'm going to say something.. But I'm not going to start an argument with them or pick a fight. A part of my post was about the fact that I don't know what to say to them.. But this isn't in the context of an argument. I'm not trying to "convert" anyone into anime either. Another thing I have to add to the context is that 80% of the time the people I know and the people I've met who bash anime are the "intellectual elitist" type. Which is why sometimes I could say the right thing.. But I don't have any intention of arguing with anyone..

Last edited by Kurara; 2004-02-21 at 13:05.
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Old 2004-02-21, 16:40   Link #29
ano_hito
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I don't like to watch hockey games and I don't go arround bashing people who likes it. Actually it would be easy to do. Arguing about personal opinions is nothing but frutrating. You always struggle to make people understands you... while some people out there don't even try to understand. Its not like a math equation where you can find an obvious answer. Its all about taste. Did you ever tried to argue with someone who likes the color "Yellow" ? (Just an example out of no where)

The only thing you can do is ignore them or try to explain what you like in anime. For example I find some anime funny because the character get in ridiculous situations or do something very unexpected. Think about Full Metal Panic ? Fumoffu. Of course some people might say that it is repetitive. My self I think that some situation is getting over used, like the boy who accidently falls on a girl (because of fate maybe ?) in romantic anime. Or when someone is punched and fly 10 miles away.

I recall someone who bashed anime by saying that the characters had the eyes so big that there were no room left for their brain... What was I supposed to answer to this ? I just ignore the person...

If I ever stop liking anime hopefuly I won't bash it. I'll rather try to remember how I liked anime.
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Old 2004-02-21, 17:49   Link #30
-JW-
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Don't hate us cause we hate you...

No, seriously though. I don't really like the anime way of looking at things. If the Gundamns wasn't so damn cool, I'd hate anime for sure.
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Old 2004-02-21, 17:50   Link #31
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurara
What bothers me is that they have a false image of it. [ Violent, extremely perverted, marketting, etc. etc.. ] And they bash it a lot when they don't necessarily know that much about it... It's mainly that anime has a bad reputation.. And I understand why, but at the same time I don't..
[...]
It's just that if someone says something false about it and that person is one of my friends, yes, I'm going to say something.. But I'm not going to start an argument with them or pick a fight. A part of my post was about the fact that I don't know what to say to them...
The thing is, I'm not sure there is much you can say to them. It sounds to me like they've made up their minds, and nothing anyone says will convince them otherwise. I have tried arguing with people who have opinions that are based on lies and false preconceptions (not about anime, but about other things), and it's almost totally and completely hopeless, I'm sad to say. The problem is that these types of people probably know deep down that they may be wrong or at least that you may have a point, but they just don't want to admit it. So once they say "anime sucks" or whatever, they're going to stick with it no matter what and come up with all sorts of bogus reasons. As you shoot down one argument, they'll come up with something even more outrageous. Often there's little pieces of truth to it, but it's usually a huge exaggeration or overstatement. Also, a lot of times they are trying to restate somebody else's arguments, but don't quite understand them enough to state them properly. I mean, the thing is, odds are that they probably watch anime themselves or have watched it, but it doesn't matter. It's pure stubbornness. It can be *VERY* frustrating, because you simply can't debate with someone whose mind is completely closed to other opinions.

In short, the problem really isn't really so much that anime is misunderstood or has a bad reputation, it's that many people are incredibly close-minded. They are quick to form opinions, and too stubborn to admit that they're wrong even when faced with overwhelming evidence. As you say, there's no point in arguing with these types of people. There are a few things you could say to them ("You are an idiot" springs to mind ) but probably the best thing is just to let them rant and don't react. Just shake your head, roll your eyes, and move on.
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Old 2004-02-21, 17:51   Link #32
Kurara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -JW-
Don't hate us cause we hate you...

No, seriously though. I don't really like the anime way of looking at things. If the Gundamns wasn't so damn cool, I'd hate anime for sure.
Well, see, that's okay. Because the way you say it is like it's your opinion. You say you don't like the anime way of looking at things, which is perfectly fine, and which I can perfectly understand too..

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
The thing is, I'm not sure there is much you can say to them. It sounds to me like they've made up their minds, and nothing anyone says will convince them otherwise. I have tried arguing with people who have opinions that are based on lies and false preconceptions (not about anime, but about other things), and it's almost totally and completely hopeless, I'm sad to say. The problem is that these types of people probably know deep down that they may be wrong or at least that you may have a point, but they just don't want to admit it. So once they say "anime sucks" or whatever, they're going to stick with it no matter what and come up with all sorts of bogus reasons. As you shoot down one argument, they'll come up with something even more outrageous. Often there's little pieces of truth to it, but it's usually a huge exaggeration or overstatement. Also, a lot of times they are trying to restate somebody else's arguments, but don't quite understand them enough to state them properly. I mean, the thing is, odds are that they probably watch anime themselves or have watched it, but it doesn't matter. It's pure stubbornness. It can be *VERY* frustrating, because you simply can't debate with someone whose mind is completely closed to other opinions.

In short, the problem really isn't really so much that anime is misunderstood or has a bad reputation, it's that many people are incredibly close-minded. They are quick to form opinions, and too stubborn to admit that they're wrong even when faced with overwhelming evidence. As you say, there's no point in arguing with these types of people. There are a few things you could say to them ("You are an idiot" springs to mind ) but probably the best thing is just to let them rant and don't react. Just shake your head, roll your eyes, and move on.
Yeah, maybe you're right.. I don't know if they're close-minded.. I mean, if I say that, that will be insulting for people I know who are against anime but are still smart.. But maybe I should just ignore it. ^^;; I think my problem is mainly because a lot of times, the people I know who are against anime are completely intellectual and very smart.. I guess I feel stupid next to them. And it makes me [ just a bit! ] afraid that they're partly right.. I guess it's a matter of defending my own beliefs and interests.
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Old 2004-02-21, 20:33   Link #33
GarBhaD
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I have something to confess. Some years ago, I was an anime-basher!!!!!
Yes, it's true! Wahahaha! And now, I've watched more than 40 shows (and increasing) Who would have predicted that I would end like this??

Well, there's a story for this. When I was in high school, I thought that most of cartoons were for children. (I was aware of a few exceptions, but in general, that was the idea). There, I had a friend who was "popular" for drawing very well... anime. I was a friend of him. At that time, I really really hated anime. For what I recall, my main reasons were:
1) Most of them were childish
2) Uses sex and violence just to appeal the audience
3) I really really really really HATED the artwork. Those big eyes... aaarrgh!

We were continuously picking discussions about american and japanese comics. Well, more than the comics themselves, the discussions always diverted to the drawing style.
The reasoning behind the first state was based on the most famous anime at that time: Dragon Ball Who is at fault? The mass-media of course, for only advertise such rubbish. The second state, the mass-media again. Most of the ads that you could find (that weren't about DB/Z) featured girls with light clothes. That makes you think that the author is just trying to get your attention with hot scenes instead of a good plot. I found that kind of policy despicable. The same goes for violence. Around that time, there was a collection of anime videos advertized on TV: Manga-Mania. It became VERY infamous (featured Ninja Scroll and Urutsokidoji, etc) and didn't help much the anime concept. As other people said already, stubbornness played an important role in my reasonings

About the third, my main point was that anime style was too simple drawing faces and that's why all characters have lots of very excessive traits. Because if they hadn't, it'd be impossible to distinguish them. I challenged my friend to try and draw two persons' faces who were very similar (but not equal) in real life in anime-style and see if it was still possible to distinguish'em. He never could reply to this
It's not that I picked on him nor he picked on me. We were still friends and this was like a pastime (high school was very boring). Our "fights" were famous between our friends It was like a hobby. We discussed lots of other stupid topics, like Sega vs Nintendo. Yeah, it was stupid but it sure was funny

The years passed, we forgot about it all. We stopped seeing each other because we chose different ways in life and had no time (college, work). One day (two years ago?), I was watching TV and I saw an episode of Cowboy Bebop. And from that until know, there's not much to explain If my friend could see me now, he would surely punch me

Since I've been on both sides of the front, the best advice I can give is the same that everyone said: avoid this kind of discussions (except if you enjoy'em) because it's impossible to change someone's mind with this method.
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Old 2004-02-22, 06:37   Link #34
Z'd Jung
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Hm.. *chuckle* yeah I suppose I used to be an Anime-basher as well, though not too much, I enjoyed Dragon Ball a bit when I was really young, but Sailormoons' long legs and really huge eyes put me off and i could not see what was so entertaining about it to my sister and cousins. It eventually grew until I cast glares at them whenever they were watching it and and mocking it in general.

I think it was Samurai X the movie that really got me into Anime, but I still hold sort of a grudge against Sailormoon, I don't know why I just do. heh.
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Old 2004-02-23, 00:16   Link #35
luckme10
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Ok well i don't know if this has been stated or not because i kindof just glance through all the responses(they're so long ) so I in turn hope that you give that considerations when reading my response LOL. Anyways most people that despise anime despise what it has come to represent. And they only see the extremist point of view. People who indulge themselves so much they use it as their only escape from their pitiful and meaningless lives. People who were mentally tormented during their adolsence and high school years and maybe daddy wasn't there for them SO they dream of dating a cartoon that doesn't speak any english and only knows the words yes...and not so rough. They see people like my friend whos name shaw not be named who have aquired strange dick girl feddishes in hope they in turn can be screwed up the ass. People who walk around being addressed as Commander Riker...mmm wait ..... wrong stereotype. I mean come on...do you really want to be This guy...
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Old 2004-02-23, 00:20   Link #36
Kurara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckme10
I mean come on...do you really want to be This guy...
This guy was completely aware of what he was doing. :P More than likely he knew his picture would go everywhere on the internet. If he expected a positive response he would have shaved.
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Old 2004-02-23, 00:23   Link #37
luckme10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurara
This guy was completely aware of what he was doing. :P More than likely he knew his picture would go everywhere on the internet. If he expected a positive response he would have shaved.
Whatever form of acting out you chose....
none the less.. let me repeat the question...do you really want to be ...that guy?
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Old 2004-02-23, 01:16   Link #38
Slade xTekno
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That site is just WRONG! MAN-FAYE! Just as bad as this [you just had to be there]. Back to topic...

After a first impression, it is against human nature to change. That is why stereotypes exist. After all, all Koreans smoke pot and play Counter-Strike, all Japanese like anime, all blacks can rap and are gang members, all whites are stuck up and ignorant, all Americans are militaristic and are in everyone else's business, all Germans are Nazis, all Russians are Communists [or at the least, the enemy], the French flag is white, the British are gay and love tea, all Indians know yoga and can either levitate or walk on coals, all Native Americans hunt with bows and arrows and have pow-wows, all Arabs are Muslims, all Muslims are terrorists, all Jews look down on everyone, all Catholics are superficial, all Protestants are in the KKK... [oh, j/k. Sorry if this offends anyone. These are just stereotypes that I have heard]
You get the point. First impressions stain your mind like red wine on a carpet. You may later find that in reality, it is much differently, but every time you think about it, your first impression will be there.
In conclusion, it's all in human nature. We're not all perfect. Everyone has a thing or two that they just can't stand, and they don't know why. Like goths, preps, or President Bush. Normally, this is due to the fact that we don't know enough about the other party, a fear of the unknown. Or, you do know, and you just don't like it.
Leave others alone. They hate things, you hate things, we all do. If we talk about the anime-haters like we have been in this thread, we're just as bad as they are.
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Old 2004-02-23, 01:20   Link #39
EliteJounin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daliinn
you either like it or you hate it. Some people just judge to quickly
Not some people. Everyone judges too quickly. Not just anime. It could be anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slade xTekno
That site is just WRONG! MAN-FAYE! Just as bad as this [you just had to be there]. Back to topic...

After a first impression, it is against human nature to change. That is why stereotypes exist. After all, all Koreans smoke pot and play Counter-Strike, all Japanese like anime, all blacks can rap and are gang members, all whites are stuck up and ignorant, all Americans are militaristic and are in everyone else's business, all Germans are Nazis, all Russians are Communists [or at the least, the enemy], the French flag is white, the British are gay and love tea, all Indians know yoga and can either levitate or walk on coals, all Native Americans hunt with bows and arrows and have pow-wows, all Arabs are Muslims, all Muslims are terrorists, all Jews look down on everyone, all Catholics are superficial, all Protestants are in the KKK... [oh, j/k. Sorry if this offends anyone. These are just stereotypes that I have heard]
You get the point. First impressions stain your mind like red wine on a carpet. You may later find that in reality, it is much differently, but every time you think about it, your first impression will be there.
In conclusion, it's all in human nature. We're not all perfect. Everyone has a thing or two that they just can't stand, and they don't know why. Like goths, preps, or President Bush. Normally, this is due to the fact that we don't know enough about the other party, a fear of the unknown. Or, you do know, and you just don't like it.
Leave others alone. They hate things, you hate things, we all do. If we talk about the anime-haters like we have been in this thread, we're just as bad as they are.
Man, you were pissing me off when you were describing the everyone. But i found out that you were just making an example. You better be.
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Old 2004-02-23, 01:22   Link #40
luckme10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slade xTekno
That site is just WRONG! MAN-FAYE! Just as bad as this [you just had to be there]. Back to topic...
HAHAHA I SAW THAT! You got the thread closed LOL that was great! . Man all they did was pounce on me for making some jackoff comment (quite literally) in that thread but that was a true classic!
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