AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > General Anime

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2004-02-23, 19:15   Link #61
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
I am intrigued how people in the Western world can go out openly to express anime as being a good medium or not. Here in Japan, no one would dare to express such arguments, as in the end we have a solid perception that "anime enthusiasts are weirdos and psychos, social outcasts and hermits - a disgraceful otaku who should be shunned from society as a shame to our nation/society."
I would say that a big difference, if not the biggest difference, about North America is that we don't have nearly the same concept of "societal shame". In fact, the entire concept of shame is pretty much "out of style", if I were to say so. That isn't to say that society as a whole accepts everything - people generally are very opinionated - but there are very few "shameful" things that could interfere, for example, with getting a job promotion if you are qualified and do good work. People in general are not as concerned about being branded an outcast, as there are very few practical consequences to that branding; only that people may think that you're wierd. If you get a group of anime-enthusiasts together in North America, they'll have conversations not unlike those on this forum in any public place. I guess that people just don't care so much about other peoples' judgement of them, because it doesn't have many consequences one way or the other. I don't feel like I need to make a huge barrier between my "work life" and my "personal life", and my personality and attitude doesn't change much between the two. That, to me, sounds like one of the big differences between here and in Japan.
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-23, 21:28   Link #62
Spiggy
Invisible
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ohio for now
Age: 34
Send a message via AIM to Spiggy Send a message via Yahoo to Spiggy
Unhappy

I'm heart-broken. So I guess that means if I end up working there for a year or two, I'm going to have to keep my anime habits to a low. Man,...I guess I wouldn't fit in over there no matter what being 6'1", black, and an anime fan. *sigh* Everyone should just get over the fact that not everyone is the same. It would make life sooo much better. Oh yeah...except I guess if you're a cannibal then you just need to keep away from me when I'm asleep
__________________

Thanks: PriestessK = sig
Spiggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-23, 21:59   Link #63
aahhsin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiggy
I'm heart-broken. So I guess that means if I end up working there for a year or two, I'm going to have to keep my anime habits to a low. Man,...I guess I wouldn't fit in over there no matter what being 6'1", black, and an anime fan. *sigh* Everyone should just get over the fact that not everyone is the same. It would make life sooo much better. Oh yeah...except I guess if you're a cannibal then you just need to keep away from me when I'm asleep
don't worry. there's actually a lot of black ppl over there. hell some guys there dress like those rap stars.

Black people are pretty common. You're gunna be towering over everyone though.
aahhsin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-24, 19:41   Link #64
Eins610
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
I really don't care. If someone hates it, let them be. It's there opinion. The only thing worst than people who bash something for no reason is people who hate other people because of their opinions.
Eins610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-24, 20:08   Link #65
Sai
apathetic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: teaching kaoru how to play GO
Age: 25
Send a message via AIM to Sai
at my school all the anime haters only hate it because for some reason they think all anime is exactly like pokemon/digimon or dbz or porn!I try to explain but I cant convince them so yea The only people who like anime at my school (to my knowledge) are me and TWO friend yes that's right TWO... so sad
Sai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-24, 20:22   Link #66
Tabiree
FUNimation's Gen Fukunaga
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
*shrugs*

This is why you take interests outside of anime, ontop of Anime.
Tabiree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-24, 20:48   Link #67
Spiggy
Invisible
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ohio for now
Age: 34
Send a message via AIM to Spiggy Send a message via Yahoo to Spiggy
Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
don't worry. there's actually a lot of black ppl over there.
Black people are pretty common. You're gunna be towering over everyone though.
Cool...I don't feel that bad. Now I just have to worry about the potential homesickness. Well...time to get back on topic. I was talking with one of my friends about what occupies our hard drive space. I told him that about 10% music *checks for RIAA agents of doom* and like 85% anime. His first comment was "what!!" next came "You're into that cartoon porn?" Now granted there's nothing wrong with hentai/ecchi things, but those are for those nights when I want to "broaden my horizons" when I'm waiting for the shows I do want. I didn't get mad at his statement but I "educated" him by telling him what the proper terminology was for it. He tried saying it a couple of time, I guess to register it into his head, and then carried on about his business. I do have to say that since I've been reading this thread, this was the first thing to pop in my head after he said cartoon porn. Kind of tells me that there needs to be more marketing of a wider range of genres.
__________________

Thanks: PriestessK = sig
Spiggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-24, 21:17   Link #68
kujoe
from head to heel
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 32
There are a lot of long and interesting posts here, and it's true that anime is an ambivalent subculture in Japan. A friend of mine was also told by a Japanese correspondence of his that anime and otaku are just plain weird. I think manga like GTO parodies this fact very well.

With regard to the anime-bashing and the stereotypes--the high school girls who look like twelve, the Pokemon, sexism and the porn--well, all I can say is that none of these would be stereotypes in the first place if they didn't have a bit of truth to them. In fact, I'm particularly annoyed by female characters in anime or manga who exemplify certain character archetypes. (ie, the ones who are not even profoundly "empowered")

But the thing is, that's not all there is to anime. I love stories and art in general, and to me, some anime can truly deliver that. There are just some things you can't do in live action film, and there are some things you can't address in the typical cartoon. It just sucks sometimes that some people can't see the whole picture.

But live with it. My dad likes golf, I like anime--simple as that.

The only time I really got annoyed was when a friend of mine asserted that pro-wrestling was ten times better.

Jesus Christ...that one really pissed me off.
kujoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-24, 21:36   Link #69
Spooky-Electric
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiggy
I told him that about 10% music *checks for RIAA agents of doom* and like 85% anime. His first comment was "what!!" next came "You're into that cartoon porn?"
Gotta love friends.
Spooky-Electric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-24, 21:51   Link #70
Spiggy
Invisible
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ohio for now
Age: 34
Send a message via AIM to Spiggy Send a message via Yahoo to Spiggy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooky-Electric
Gotta love friends.
Yeah...they're great aren't they....

Quote:
he only time I really got annoyed was when a friend of mine asserted that pro-wrestling was ten times better.

Jesus Christ...that one really pissed me off.
HAHAHAHAHAHA..... I actually laughed at this one...thanks.
__________________

Thanks: PriestessK = sig
Spiggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-25, 11:11   Link #71
Princess_of_Hell
Being Felt Up My Skirt
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: A Mystery
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to Princess_of_Hell
If people ask "do you still watch cartoons?", then does that mean ALL cartoons (and not counting anime since anime differs from cartoons)? If they watch shows like King of the Hill and the Simpsons, then they too are doing the opposite of what they are saying. When people do ask that question and make fun of people who do watch them (and anime too), then the people who asked cannot watch any kind of animated shows and that includes the Simpsons and anything on the Cartoon Network.

People just want you to like the things they do and get upset if you don't, but they don't want to do the things that you like. Since anime is "still" relatively new in America, people refer to anime of what is on TV, and that is the majority of Americans (mainly JOCKS and CHEERLEADERS).

I, too, can judge people if they judge me, like saying things like (you still watch toilet humor style movies "or" wear varsity jackets?)

Why can't people do their own thing and let others be instead of commenting on them because they are not doing the "norm" thing. I don't want to live in a country full of "CLONES" that do everything the same and think the same.

Try showing a little child an anime called "Hellsing" or "Pia Carrot", or even "Serial Experiments Lain", and most people (mainly stupid Americans) call that "LITTLE KID STUFF"

I don't care what people think of me. Yes I am GOTH and a LESBIAN, and happy that gay marriages are becoming legal. I don't let other's judgements bother me and am not afraid to be extremely goth or holding hands with another girl in public.
Princess_of_Hell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-25, 12:25   Link #72
Doddler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 31
Send a message via ICQ to Doddler Send a message via MSN to Doddler
I guess its interesting the situation. You got to consider a few things. My guess is anime in Japan is JUST like comics and cartoons here. I mean, you see someone reading the comics section of the newspaper, its nothing much at all. If there was a person were wearing a business suit on the bus, and they were reading a book of comic strips like dilbert of foxtrot, there's nothing wrong with that. But if that adult was reading Spawn or Spiderman comics, you'd get strange looks. If you're in the office and you talk about a good episode of futurama, simpsons, or even southpark to some extent, you'll still be considered perfectly normal. Sure, they're all animated, cartoons, but there's no social repercussions for openly watching / reading those.

And thats how it is really in japan, as far as I can tell. I'm sure kj1980 can tell a bit more than I can. People can read comics in newspapers and magazines, and there are several shows aimed at adults that really for the most part arn't considered 'cartoons'.

I'm sure you may have noticed that all the "socially acceptable" comic strips and cartoons out there are all comedy. And thats because of the mindset of the public. If you want a good laugh, watch a sitcom or a 'comedy' (I havn't really heard of simpsons, futurama, or family guy refered to as a cartoon). If you want a full story, well, you go read a book (or watch a movie). TV is definately viewed as cheap thrills. There have been very very few shows in north america that attempt to have a running story between episodes on TV, mostly Sci-Fi. And those don't usually do so well. I guess its a standard frame of mind about television. Will it change? Nah, doubtfully. Its just the way anime is, I doubt it'll change many views. While anime exists that is aimed at mature audiences, a good deal of it remains targeted to kids and teens. Most of it really is disposable entertainment. The true mature oriented shows will remain as movies, and avoid most of the criticism that anime gets.

A little off topic, a while back a friend asked me why I watched anime, and I told him it was because many of them had good stories above what I see in other visual entertainment mediums (movies, TV shows). He told me he didn't like anime (and this is a new one) because its always about people with super-powers or similar type stuff. There is no 'semi-real' worlds in anime. And I thought about it, and he was right. A good 99% of anime deals atleast partially with a supernatual element, wether its magic powers or giant robots. Even less can make it without unaturally bending the world for comedy etc, like Naru's punches in love hina, characters flying up into the distance, etc. And those that don't have any of that are almost always based off of adult japanese PC games :P I can definately see that as an argument. My response was that it was just a different way to tell a story, you watch live action shows with such said things in it. But its true, being a fan of all but the most mainstream fantasy or Sci-Fi is considered quite childish by society, anime or not.

I guess I'm ranting a bit much today, so I'll cut it short. This is definately an interesting thread though.
Doddler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-25, 13:15   Link #73
Kurara
Ningyou Hime
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Digital Space
Send a message via ICQ to Kurara Send a message via AIM to Kurara Send a message via MSN to Kurara
Well, I have to say that there's a difference... I mean. There's a difference from people who go "hah you watch that pokémon stuff?" or "Anime? that's cartoons for children" than someone who starts saying really opinionated stuff. I don't care about the first type because it's usually from people who don't know anything about anime and they're ignorant about it.. The second type isn't completely ignorant. When I say that anime has a bad reputation, I don't mean that people think it's all pokémon and that it's just cartoons for children. Because that's normal, people are going to judge anime over what they see on TV and.. Well, let's face it, people consider any forms of cartoon childish. That's nothing surprising to me.. What bothers me is when it comes from adults who are making a big judgement of anime in general without knowing much about. Or when it comes to people who have watched a few anime series, and who overanalyzed them.. When they had a preconceived idea of it. I mean, sometimes, they've heard that anime was a certain way and they found "proofs" of this in the anime series they watched. A lot of times also, it's people who stopped liking anime and who don't respect people who like it now. It seems also that people view anime as something really stupid that mainly geekish people like.. For that reason, a lot of people I know stopped liking anime just to look smarter or they hid their interests from older people or intellectuals. I'm not saying I want them to change their opinions or their behavior. ^^; I know I can't change it. I just think that it sucks. I mean, it sucks that anime has that type of reputation.

I guess I just wish people would respect others no matter what they do or like. I mean, there is so many people who are going to bash anime fans or cosplayers. Earlier in the thread, some people said that typical anime fans are annoying and too obsessive.. It's okay to think that.. However.. I personally believe that.. People have the right to like or think what they want unless it hurts others. That's just me though.
Kurara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-25, 13:50   Link #74
Baba
Grouky Freak
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Paris, France
Age: 34
Send a message via ICQ to Baba Send a message via MSN to Baba
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddler
A good 99% of anime deals atleast partially with a supernatual element, wether its magic powers or giant robots. Even less can make it without unaturally bending the world for comedy etc, like Naru's punches in love hina, characters flying up into the distance, etc. And those that don't have any of that are almost always based off of adult japanese PC games :P
This also a little offtopic, but I have to disagree to that. While this is true about many shonen anime, here are exemples of other anime that don't fit in this (and that's way above 1%):

- Sports anime
- Many Shoujo (although it's more true in manga than anime)
- Mystery/Detective anime
- Other odd titles (GTO, Monster...)

And there is much more of these in manga, also it's true they seldom seem to make it into an anime.
__________________
"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watch on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleeper, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."
G.R.R. Martin, A Song of Ice and Fire, A Game of Thrones.
Baba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-25, 16:14   Link #75
raikage
日本語を食べません!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Francisco
Age: 32
Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but the key thing here is the rule.

Using American comic books as an example -

99% of American comic books involve superheros or some sort of adolescent male power fantasy.

Now, one COULD say 'Well, what about Strangers in Paradise or (well, that's the only one that comes to mind at the moment)?"

And yes, they would be right. There are those few comics that are about something else. The rule, however, still states that you can walk into an average comics shop and see that 99% of comics are adolescent male power fantasies.

So, as much as we could sit here and list some of the series that have nothing to do with anything out-of-the-ordinary (like Maison Ikkoku), the vast majority of series still have some superhuman-ish elements in them (KOR, GTO - his strength and endurance HAVE to be superhuman, HnG - Hikaru meets Sai the friendly ghost)
raikage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-25, 19:53   Link #76
Anthias
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess_of_Hell
I don't care what people think of me. Yes I am GOTH and a LESBIAN, and happy that gay marriages are becoming legal. I don't let other's judgements bother me and am not afraid to be extremely goth or holding hands with another girl in public.
YES! Your THE girl!... I'm proud of you. Be goth. (I speak as an also goth type person). Goths into anime. Very cool, and ur not the only one

On topic, I was talking to a girl a month or so ago who was mouthing off about how horrible all that anime stuff is, and I said do you still like the stuff you watched as a kid and she said "yes, but none of it was that japanese rubish" so I said "what shows were they?" and here is the list she told me:

Robotec,
Mysterious Cities Of Gold
Speed Racer
Astro Boy

I guess there's no helping some people huh? All four are japanese animated.
Anthias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-25, 20:09   Link #77
Doddler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 31
Send a message via ICQ to Doddler Send a message via MSN to Doddler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baba
This also a little offtopic, but I have to disagree to that. While this is true about many shonen anime, here are exemples of other anime that don't fit in this (and that's way above 1%):

- Sports anime
- Many Shoujo (although it's more true in manga than anime)
- Mystery/Detective anime
- Other odd titles (GTO, Monster...)
There's a disturbing amount of sports anime where characters have "Super Moves" or a super attack :P

But more to the point, what I mean is that there's very few anime that I can watch and say "That could actually happen". There's some notable exceptions, but most of which deal with things supernatural (by means that it wouldn't be belivable). I guess thats a point both for, and against anime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raikage
Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but the key thing here is the rule.

Using American comic books as an example -

99% of American comic books involve superheros or some sort of adolescent male power fantasy.

Now, one COULD say 'Well, what about Strangers in Paradise or (well, that's the only one that comes to mind at the moment)?"

And yes, they would be right. There are those few comics that are about something else. The rule, however, still states that you can walk into an average comics shop and see that 99% of comics are adolescent male power fantasies.
I'll agree with you on this one, that they arn't the same. But its a similar way of looking at it, they're both frowned upon by society, and an adult reading them is considered a little strange. Society percieves that you should grow out of comic books, and in japan, anime, by the time you turn 20, complete your education and get a respectable job :P

And don't let me talk about japanese PC 'anime' games, 99.99998% of which are also strictly male fantasies :P
Doddler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-26, 00:35   Link #78
kujoe
from head to heel
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 32
You have to admit though, that the reason why others think that anime is for kids is probably because of a good number of anime has this underlying nostalgia or glorification of the youth. There are some exceptions of course, and yet even those with heavy themes are seen from the standpoint of a protagonist who is indeed young.

It's not only because of the targeted audience either. Sure, more than 80% of anime produced are family-oriented and are for children, but even those made for a mature audience posits a young protagonist in the center of the story. Perfect examples would be Miyazaki's works and Evangelion. And who could forget Grave of the Fireflies? Even a lot of the dramas and romances are the same.

Maybe some people don't like this? Despite that some anime are truly good in terms of story and art, the fact still remains that it's more "comprehensible" to the youth or to those who are linked to it from a related position. Hence, even some grown-ups can get into it.

Hmmm. I don't know. I think I'm overreading the situation already. It would be a good thesis for a cultural study though. Then again, maybe not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spriggy
HAHAHAHAHAHA..... I actually laughed at this one...thanks.
Glad you liked it.
kujoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-26, 01:01   Link #79
raikage
日本語を食べません!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Francisco
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddler
I'll agree with you on this one, that they arn't the same. But its a similar way of looking at it, they're both frowned upon by society, and an adult reading them is considered a little strange. Society percieves that you should grow out of comic books, and in japan, anime, by the time you turn 20, complete your education and get a respectable job :P

And don't let me talk about japanese PC 'anime' games, 99.99998% of which are also strictly male fantasies :P
Erm...thanks for the agreement...but what I was trying to get at (though somewhat indirectly) is that for every one non-kiddie anime you can point at, someone else can point at fifty that are aimed at children. That IS the rule, and though there are some that break these molds and aim for something a bit higher and deeper, there are still those five hundred billion that conform to the rule.

Shonen manga often get made into anime because those are the ones that benefit most from moving pics, a romance story won't take advantage of the animation the way an action manga would.

The anime themselves are often a marketing promotion; look at Pokemon, Yugioh, or even the dot Hack series. Card games, video games, toys. It makes sense to try to sell to children, who have disposable income (in the form of parents) rather than try to sell to adults who have bills to pay.
raikage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-02-26, 01:18   Link #80
hobobaggins
だいすきが大好きです!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 26
Send a message via AIM to hobobaggins
People who hate anime

dont hang around here.

should be beaten

... where?

what is anime?

are like fuzzy bannanna people.

look like wookies

taste like wookies

are wookies.
hobobaggins is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.