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Old 2007-04-23, 12:52   Link #201
mdauben
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
love hina again was flawed because it had to squeeze 4 volumes into 3 frigging episodes (volumes 9 to 12)
outside of the whacked pace, it is faithful (plot and chara design wise).
True, and that was the sort of flaws I was referring to. The introduction of Keitaro's sister for example was way to rushed and did not provide for proper development of either her character of her storyline. Given the time constrains of the OVA, they would have better off omitting her entirely and just concentration on wrapping up the stories of the existing characters.

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2 series? at the most, 3 of 12-13 episodes, but 50 episodes is really too much.
The original first season was 25 episodes and I can't see them doing justice to the segment of the manga covered by that season in much less than 20-22 episodes. I think there is enough material to justify 48-50 episodes without making up any filler, but I would say that three 12-13 episode (36-39 episodes total) seasons would be the absolute minimum to do the manga justice.

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Actually, the anime had too much fillers, the chara design was horrible, and most of the characters development were completely screwed. frankly, your "even the first season had some flaws" really surprised me, because when i watched the anime, i didn't recognize the manga i liked, however strong i tried.
I think the first season is good as a stand alone anime. If you compare it to the manga is when it really suffers, though. I certainly agree that there were a lot of bad decisions on what to leave out and what to add (a problem with all the anime adaptations of Akamatsu's work). In a lot of ways the Love Hina Again OVA was a better adaptation, aside from that fact that it was far too short.
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Old 2007-04-23, 13:03   Link #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdauben View Post
True, and that was the sort of flaws I was referring to. The introduction of Keitaro's sister for example was way to rushed and did not provide for proper development of either her character of her storyline. Given the time constrains of the OVA, they would have better off omitting her entirely and just concentration on wrapping up the stories of the existing characters.
Point taken : LH watchers would have nothing to lose, if the anime has concluded in its own way, without LH again. (basically, they could make a "chase arc", without kanako, but maybe one of the hinata girls, or even Moe)

in fact, i hoped they would involve Mei, so she could force her nee-chan to set her feelings towards kei. (this was the only addiction i agreed, but they didn't take full advantage of it... AKH -__-")

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The original first season was 25 episodes and I can't see them doing justice to the segment of the manga covered by that season in much less than 20-22 episodes. I think there is enough material to justify 48-50 episodes without making up any filler, but I would say that three 12-13 episode (36-39 episodes total) seasons would be the absolute minimum to do the manga justice.
humm, in fact, i was hoping an adaptation of the manga, without any filler for the anime AND manga (the first volumes were kinda stalled, and the great finale too, so erm...)

but come to the think of it, 24-26 might be too short, yeah...
Quote:
I think the first season is good as a stand alone anime. If you compare it to the manga is when it really suffers, though. I certainly agree that there were a lot of bad decisions on what to leave out and what to add (a problem with all the anime adaptations of Akamatsu's work). In a lot of ways the Love Hina Again OVA was a better adaptation, aside from that fact that it was far too short.
i guess i was really biased, since i was a big fan of the manga at that time, since i felt it was a complete trainwreck (no joke, sometimes i wondered why i watched this anime... this doesn't mean i didn't enjoy it sometimes (unlike another adaptation... who said negima first season?)

meh, i should give it another try, now that it is a bit unclear in my mind (still, with/out the manga, the "muscular" legs of the girls and their face proportions still scare the hell of me )
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Old 2007-04-23, 13:34   Link #203
mdauben
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
i guess i was really biased, since i was a big fan of the manga at that time, since i felt it was a complete trainwreck
Yeah, I was lucky enough to see the anime first, and then read the manga much later so I had time to develop a liking for the anime before I realized how poorly it adapted the manga (of course, I sort of liked the first Negima! anime for the same reasons, but after reading the manga my liking for the anime completely evaporated. )
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Old 2007-04-23, 15:12   Link #204
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
...meh, i should give it another try, now that it is a bit unclear in my mind (still, with/out the manga, the "muscular" legs of the girls and their face proportions still scare the hell of me )
I agree with you and others about the general flaws of the anime. I was on my second time reading the manga front to back when I fianlly bought the whole anime as a set, sight unseen. From the first ep, I couldn't understand what manga this was an anime of because it sure wasn't Akamatsu's... After 5 eps, I just dropped and shelved it. I have all the OAV's too and have never even pulled the shrinkwrap off... maybe I should try again, since it's been over two years since my last exposure to the manga...
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Old 2007-04-24, 07:28   Link #205
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Oh Well I checked My LH dvds, chalk one up for senility and an appology to anyone who got thier hopes up about the wedding thing.... sorries.
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Old 2007-04-24, 09:08   Link #206
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Oh Well I checked My LH dvds, chalk one up for senility and an appology to anyone who got thier hopes up about the wedding thing.... sorries.
Yeah I thought you had made a mistake about that. either that or my memory had gone completely twisted. I usually remember things like that^^
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Old 2007-04-24, 14:26   Link #207
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Akumatsu seems to have *terrible* luck getting any of his work properly adapted for the screen (whatever one thinks of his work).

I can find pieces of the Love Hina anime collection I like very much (sometimes I'll pull that up). There's one episode and a number of scenes in Negima (first season) I actually enjoy. I really didn't mind the SHAFT OVAs or the "alternative" set up and premise for Shinbo's take on Negima!? (but it plowed into the ground after a handful of episodes and seemed to lose its way).

The only way the LH manga might ever get a decent treatment I've decided is if KyoAni takes it on because they seem to be one of the few teams to actually respect the original material (even when they change a bit of it).
That is pretty much unlikely, though, and they'd still have to slice out a lot of the secondary sidestories.
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Old 2007-04-24, 20:12   Link #208
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Akumatsu seems to have *terrible* luck getting any of his work properly adapted for the screen (whatever one thinks of his work).
It isn't just him lots of anime that is based on manga just plain sucks. Often the only way for me to really enjoy anime is to have never come near the manga.
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Old 2007-04-25, 07:24   Link #209
mdauben
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It isn't just him lots of anime that is based on manga just plain sucks.
While it's true that anime adaptations of Akumatsu's work are not unique in that respect, they certainly are notorious for the poor job that was done in their adaptations. Love Hina and both versions of Negima are some of the worst examples of how to adapt a popular and good manga to anime I have seen. Remove huge amounts of really good material, and then stick in random chunks of totally new, and totally inferiour filler material.
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Old 2007-04-25, 09:12   Link #210
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Originally Posted by mdauben View Post
While it's true that anime adaptations of Akumatsu's work are not unique in that respect, they certainly are notorious for the poor job that was done in their adaptations. Love Hina and both versions of Negima are some of the worst examples of how to adapt a popular and good manga to anime I have seen. Remove huge amounts of really good material, and then stick in random chunks of totally new, and totally inferiour filler material.
I completely agree, which is why I find the LH anime so unwatchable, and for that matter Negima as well...

Additionally, the animation and stylizations of the characters in both series lack something that Akamatsu's chara have. They aren't svelte like the originals in the manga. There is a quality to Akamatsu's art that makes his chara, especially the girls, smooth and at times almost dreamy. Something about the eye construction and the describing lines that make up their body forms. I've seen other animation that captures something like it, but not for LH or Negima.
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Old 2007-04-25, 09:29   Link #211
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Well, actually, if both series used the same chara design done for Love Hina Again, this would nullify completely the design issue.

as for Negima!?, i actually liked how SHAFT designed the series. the flaws were merely the plot and the complete suppression of characters backstory and development.

the major problem with Akamatsu's works adaptations isn't really the art, but the plot...
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Old 2007-04-25, 09:38   Link #212
mdauben
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
as for Negima!?, i actually liked how SHAFT designed the series. the flaws were merely the plot and the complete suppression of characters backstory and development.
That is exactly how I felt about Negima!? myself. It was totally different in "look" than the original manga, but the look was good taken on it's own. I was so disappointed in the story and especially in the development of (or rather lack thereof) the characters, though, that I eventually just dropped it.

To my mind the strength of Akamatsu's work is not the art (although I will say I do like it) or even the stories but really the characters. This is really evident with the Negima! manga where you have over thirty "main" characters, all with distinct and interesting personalities, and all of whom are a joy to read about.

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the major problem with Akamatsu's works adaptations isn't really the art, but the plot...
Agree here, too. I could easly live with the artwork in the Love Hina, Mahou Sensei Negima! or even the Negima!? anime, if the story and characters stuck to Akamatsu's works instead of making pointless and ill-advised changes that do nothing to improve the anime (or in the case of Negima!? throw the original story out almost entirely and start from scratch).

Last edited by mdauben; 2007-04-25 at 14:23.
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Old 2007-04-25, 14:02   Link #213
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Well, I'm an artist so the art style has HUGE impact on me...
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Old 2007-04-25, 22:32   Link #214
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I have to agree with Mughi The art does matter if you read the LH light novel it doesn't play quite the same as the manga, it doesn't have the feeling in it that Akamatsu's art does. As manga goes his art isn't just good it is exceptional and if you started out with A.I. Love You the progress he has made while staying true to his own style is obvious.
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Old 2007-04-25, 23:55   Link #215
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...As manga goes his art isn't just good it is exceptional and if you started out with A.I. Love You the progress he has made while staying true to his own style is obvious.
This is so true. Each new series he does, the art just gets that much more refined. Akamatsu's fascination with pantsu & upskirts aside, his girls all manage to be sexy and somehow innocent all at the same time. The renditions in the LH anime were clunky and bottomheavy and the chara in Negima were too stick like and lacked finesse.

There's no doubt that the wasteful changes to the script were annoying, but if the eye candy is yummy enough, you won't notice the changes, or care. That's the beauty of animation. Even a shabby story hack can survive if the graphics are beautious enough!
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Old 2007-04-26, 07:50   Link #216
mdauben
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if you started out with A.I. Love You the progress he has made while staying true to his own style is obvious.
Having read A.I. Love You, Love Hina and Negima! I totally agree with you there. You can recognize the style of Negima! even in the first chapters of A.I. Love You, but as each series progresses you can see it becoming more and more refined as time passes.

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if the eye candy is yummy enough, you won't notice the changes, or care. That's the beauty of animation. Even a shabby story hack can survive if the graphics are beautious enough!
I guess this is just personal differences and what is important to you. I admit art is a key element of a good manga or graphic novel and it's hard to overcome actually bad art. To me, however, a good story and good characters can carry average art and still result in a good and enjoyable series, while even the best art can't save a series with charaters I don't care about, or a story that does not hold together.
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Old 2007-04-26, 09:11   Link #217
Mughi
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Originally Posted by mdauben View Post
...I guess this is just personal differences and what is important to you. I admit art is a key element of a good manga or graphic novel and it's hard to overcome actually bad art. To me, however, a good story and good characters can carry average art and still result in a good and enjoyable series, while even the best art can't save a series with charaters I don't care about, or a story that does not hold together.
I think we are disagreeing over a matter of degrees. I'm not referring to just ANY series out there... We're talking about Love Hina and by extension, Negima!. Two stories that already have proven they are engaging. My point is that the poor art AND the story changes screwed up the anime versions enough that they hold no value for me to spend my time on. If rather the art in both anime versions was at least up to par of Akamatsu's style, I'd have (bought and) watched them even WITH the story changes. Without that level of visual continuity, I can't forgive the changes to the script.
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Old 2007-04-26, 12:51   Link #218
mdauben
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I think we are disagreeing over a matter of degrees.
Oh, definetly! I certainly wasn't trying to say my way of looking at manga was the right, or even the better, way to look at them. Just that different people have different expectations and different priorities.

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My point is that the poor art AND the story changes screwed up the anime versions enough that they hold no value for me to spend my time on.
Yes, I can't really disagree. No mater what relative importance you apply to artwork, story, and charactes, both those anime were inferior in all three areas when compared to the manga they were adapted from. Improving in any of those areas could only have improved the amine.
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Old 2007-06-09, 09:47   Link #219
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My most fav character in LH is Sara McDougal. Becaue he's the only girl that did not explicitly fall for Keitaro. (Though according to Kanako's love list she's the lowest scorer at 62. Just friends was 50)


Spoiler for Sara McDougal concepts:


Though I've noticed pretty much like Forty-chan in AI Love You Ken made her shorter as LH progressed.
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Old 2007-06-20, 12:17   Link #220
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Sara's quite hot in the epilogue
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