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Old 2007-12-07, 14:45   Link #241
Forbin
I'm a sucker for Harem
 
 
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Originally Posted by ironbomb View Post
Mutsumi would be the closest competitor against Naru. Even she didnt last long..I mean she basically gave up on Keitaro from the very beginning..only had feelings for him and hoping to get Naru and Keitaro together. Kanako wasnt really much since Keitaro never had feelings for her...Only girl that made Keitaro think twice was Mutsumi.
Check out the Drama CD, it's not Manga Canon but Mutsumi tries one more time to knock out Naru.
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Old 2007-12-07, 16:57   Link #242
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Interesting, I always just viewed Mutsumi as kind of a red herring diversion whereas Motoko nearly submarined in for the win (even Naru acknowledged Motoko probably deserved to win more than she). Out of all the characters, Motoko and Keitaro actually seemed to *evolve* the most into interesting directions.
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Old 2007-12-07, 19:56   Link #243
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Originally Posted by Forbin View Post
Check out the Drama CD, it's not Manga Canon but Mutsumi tries one more time to knock out Naru.
I might take a look at it..First I gotta watch the anime...Maybe...


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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Interesting, I always just viewed Mutsumi as kind of a red herring diversion whereas Motoko nearly submarined in for the win (even Naru acknowledged Motoko probably deserved to win more than she). Out of all the characters, Motoko and Keitaro actually seemed to *evolve* the most into interesting directions.
Well, Mutsumi was definitely more of a rival to Naru than Motoko. At first Motoko didnt even understand the feelings she had and failed/never portrayed them..not until her sister showed up the 2nd time. Naru would didnt wanna put more insecruity to herself with more names. Mutsumi have *promised* to help them which was the reason she didnt acknowledge her as a rival at the end(I think? or was it shinobu and motoko...I know she acknowledge two people.. forgot who were the 2 =/)
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Old 2007-12-08, 10:49   Link #244
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Originally Posted by ironbomb View Post
Actually I havent read any of the authors previous works before or after Love Hina so I dont know of his/her(not sure on gender of the mangaka) progress.
Ken Akamatsu is definetly a "him". In fact. he looks a lot like Keitaro and he also failed the entrance exams for Todai...

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I have read a few other romance manga that I felt are all better.
Oh, no doubt. I've read better romance manga, too. The manga Midori no Hibe (Midori Days) for example is at least as funny as Love Hina, and with a much better romance story.
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Old 2007-12-08, 13:31   Link #245
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Ken Akamatsu is definetly a "him". In fact. he looks a lot like Keitaro and he also failed the entrance exams for Todai...
interesting...so it was base on his personal life.. a bit...but mostly fiction...truly interesting lol...lol I gonna dig up a picture of him.. gotta see how he looks... if he looks identical to Keitaro.....

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Oh, no doubt. I've read better romance manga, too. The manga Midori no Hibe (Midori Days) for example is at least as funny as Love Hina, and with a much better romance story.
Midori days...not sure if I seen the anime..is it about the girl that is sick who is stuck in the guys hand...?
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Old 2007-12-08, 13:43   Link #246
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As others have said, Love Hina comes off better if you remember *when* it was published and that it was the author's second major effort. Otherwise, its like dissing a film from the 1940s because it was made in black'n'white and the pacing and editing has 1940s sensibilities. There's a lot about the series I'm not-so-fond-of but I do reread Motoko's series of arcs on occasion and a couple of the other segments for a bit of nostalgia.

The story is hardly biographical ... a lot of people try to get into Todai and fail. Ken did not have an inn full of girls, though he did end up marrying a cute little cosplaying Shinobu-type. He's basically a "geek done good". His storytelling skills are still rambling and almost broken but he and his team do character design and storyline premises that prove very popular.
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Old 2007-12-08, 13:49   Link #247
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
As others have said, Love Hina comes off better if you remember *when* it was published and that it was the author's second major effort. Otherwise, its like dissing a film from the 1940s because it was made in black'n'white and the pacing and editing has 1940s sensibilities. There's a lot about the series I'm not-so-fond-of but I do reread Motoko's series of arcs on occasion and a couple of the other segments for a bit of nostalgia.
That is true. Forgetting about the artwork, I would say the storyline is weak though. Shouldnt matter how you look at it, If the storyline of a manga is strong it will attract more attention compared to this.

Time to start reading parallel & pastel now ^^...lets see how those two are hehe.
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Old 2007-12-08, 13:56   Link #248
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I read part of Pastel .... I think my problem was I had just come off being hyper-annoyed with Ichigo 100% and I"s. Pastel starts off nicely but as soon as the 'harem' mode set in, my interest just fell apart. Perhaps you'll have better luck

I do agree with you that Love Hina could use a rewrite and a lot of tightening up (like many manga trying to stretch what would have been a nice tight 8 or 10 volume story).
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Old 2007-12-08, 16:10   Link #249
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
The story is hardly biographical ... a lot of people try to get into Todai and fail. Ken did not have an inn full of girls, though he did end up marrying a cute little cosplaying Shinobu-type. He's basically a "geek done good". His storytelling skills are still rambling and almost broken but he and his team do character design and storyline premises that prove very popular.
Didnt see this part of your post before =X. "Geek gone Lucky" is my way of seeing it atm. Im wouldnt be surprised that the success rate of getting into a good U is low, but to do that and end up staying in an all-female inn/dorm for so long...come on, thats a bit blah with really really low plot development. I have stated that his character designs are mediocre but I would have to change my opinion. I gotta say, they are fairly well drawn compared to alot of other manga. But gaining propularity just because of your artwork while lacking a story is blehz.

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I read part of Pastel .... I think my problem was I had just come off being hyper-annoyed with Ichigo 100% and I"s. Pastel starts off nicely but as soon as the 'harem' mode set in, my interest just fell apart. Perhaps you'll have better luck

I do agree with you that Love Hina could use a rewrite and a lot of tightening up (like many manga trying to stretch what would have been a nice tight 8 or 10 volume story).
Well, I havent started yet, was hoping to read Parallel first since it was that authors first piece of work before jumping to Pastel. Hmm, I read Ichigo100% and then jumped on Suzuka then I's and finally Love hina all within the same month(Ichigo100% would be a reread though...but still had a post-stingy feelings).
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Old 2007-12-10, 15:27   Link #250
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Ken Akamatsu is good,but I think Love Hina was kind of a failure.We can anticipate the story without difficulties,the drawings are not that good,and the primary characters are soooo boring,especially Keitaro and Naru...But I got to admit I spent some good time reading it.
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Old 2007-12-10, 15:42   Link #251
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It remains one of the most popular series on the manga racks even after 10 years so "failure" is relative (though Naruto and Bleach are also popular on the racks so meh).

I'll just keep repeating its one of his earlier works and it was released in 1998-2001 so you have to frame it against other 'harem' manga not based on any erogame of the time. Its certainly a rambling mess and *at the time* it wasn't really clear that Naru would be the girl he finished out with. Nowadays with all the staple clues that most harem anime romances provide - its more rare not to guess the winning girl on the first episode.

Informational wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Hina

Last edited by Vexx; 2007-12-10 at 15:53.
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Old 2007-12-10, 16:04   Link #252
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Maybe thats why I was more fond of Ichigo100% and even I's. I dont see how those two stories are consider less popular than Love Hina. Almost everyone that I have discussed/chatted with stated that Love Hina is consider average at best. I dont know understand why its such a popular manga.
I wouldnt necessary call it a failure since it does have some good comedy scenes and moments. The character designs are consider good at the time as well. All it lacked like I have stated a few times, a storyline that flowed. Everything after he got accepted to Toudai and Mutsumi revealing that she wasnt and Naru was the "promised girl" was just pretty much fillers, didnt develop the plot at all...until the final volume and for most of that was pretty bad until like the last 5-6 chapters.
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Old 2007-12-10, 17:13   Link #253
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My hypothesis is that Love Hina just isn't the type of material that you look back on and think fondly of it. It's really only somewhat entertaining when you're actually reading the manga. Honestly, I've read through the manga twice and I hardly remember more than a vague idea of the story in between the beginning and the end.

Love Hina is more popular than Ichigo 100% and I"s because it's more groundbreaking. Akamatsu Ken did somewhat develop the harem genre further (sounds like an oxymoron I know) and increase it's popularity. I mean Tenchi Muyo wouldn't be considered "good" by any standards we use today, but way back when, it was pretty popular.
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Old 2007-12-10, 17:22   Link #254
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If you'll notice in Negima, it doesn't appear that Ken A. has learned a great deal (or perhaps he has in terms of commercially driven storylines). The Negima story is taking wide rambling detours and its almost as if the initial plot has been forgotten in the details of all the focus derail. The sheer number of girls is taking a bit of a toll on the story line and proper attention to the characters themselves and their individual evolution.

But..... only looking at Negima in comparison to its ancestor Love Hina ... don't want to derail into a Negima thread

I"s seemed to work somewhat well though I had some trouble taking the "antagonists" seriously. OTOH, Ichigo 100% just kind of blew up and died partway through for me. Very interesting premise and character design -- but the author didn't seem to have any idea how to converge on a solution which is interestingly, somewhat like your complaint about Love Hina

If I were editing Love Hina as a whole.... there's probably about 4 books of material segments I would have totally dropkicked and a few critical scenes I would have added (and that was if I'd stuck to the existing ending) just to make the story flow better and converge more smoothly.

Tripperazn is quite right -- that the time of release is pretty important. Heck, Spencer's Faerie Queen, Beowulf, Canterbury Tales... heck, Dickens and Mark Twain stories are all absolutely brilliant classics --- but can be quite a hard go and often paced so slowly as to be mind-numbing to the modern reader.

Last edited by Vexx; 2007-12-10 at 17:35.
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Old 2007-12-10, 19:26   Link #255
ironbomb
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Originally Posted by tripperazn View Post
My hypothesis is that Love Hina just isn't the type of material that you look back on and think fondly of it. It's really only somewhat entertaining when you're actually reading the manga. Honestly, I've read through the manga twice and I hardly remember more than a vague idea of the story in between the beginning and the end.

Love Hina is more popular than Ichigo 100% and I"s because it's more groundbreaking. Akamatsu Ken did somewhat develop the harem genre further (sounds like an oxymoron I know) and increase it's popularity. I mean Tenchi Muyo wouldn't be considered "good" by any standards we use today, but way back when, it was pretty popular.
It definitely isnt something I would go and reread unless there was a SERIOUS debate on it...a whole new full discussion which by no means is gonna occurr. Sadly, I didnt even find it that amusing when reading it through, more of forcing myself to finish it so I can start on something new. lol Sadly here as well that I have to agree. I finished the manga LESS than 5days ago and im already forgotten most of the details of the manga. I look for the character developments alot in the manga and I felt that NONE of the main leads really changed much from beginning to end. The female characters, other than Naru all changed a bit which I am surprised to see since the story didnt revolve around them while the main leads had no change at all.

What do you mean that Love Hina is "groundbreaking"? I believe I's was out before it and Ichigo100% finished around the same time Love Hina finished(dont remember exactly...). Ichigo100% is definitely alot more composed and I didnt feel much drag, not even with the indecisiveness of Manaka. The closure for Ichigo100% might not have satisfied majority of the readers(not even me the first few times I read it..) but It definitely left us a feeling to want to continue and wonder what happens...Didnt even get a glimpse of that feeling anywhere near love hina.
There was nothing new introduced in Love Hina that would consider "new" that I did not notice in Ichigo100% and I's combine. Love Hina was just more of s hysterical laugh at best. If he put it under the comedy genre WITHOUT romance, then I would have looked at the manga in a different perspective and would have rate it so much better. The manga would have been so much better if it was a straight up comedy without all the false romantic moments.


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Originally Posted by vexx View Post
If you'll notice in Negima, it doesn't appear that Ken A. has learned a great deal (or perhaps he has in terms of commercially driven storylines). The Negima story is taking wide rambling detours and its almost as if the initial plot has been forgotten in the details of all the focus derail. The sheer number of girls is taking a bit of a toll on the story line and proper attention to the characters themselves and their individual evolution.

But..... only looking at Negima in comparison to its ancestor Love Hina ... don't want to derail into a Negima thread

I"s seemed to work somewhat well though I had some trouble taking the "antagonists" seriously. OTOH, Ichigo 100% just kind of blew up and died partway through for me. Very interesting premise and character design -- but the author didn't seem to have any idea how to converge on a solution which is interestingly, somewhat like your complaint about Love Hina

If I were editing Love Hina as a whole.... there's probably about 4 books of material segments I would have totally dropkicked and a few critical scenes I would have added (and that was if I'd stuck to the existing ending) just to make the story flow better and converge more smoothly.

Tripperazn is quite right -- that the time of release is pretty important. Heck, Spencer's Faerie Queen, Beowulf, Canterbury Tales... heck, Dickens and Mark Twain stories are all absolutely brilliant classics --- but can be quite a hard go and often paced so slowly as to be mind-numbing to the modern reader.
That is probably one of the reasons why I WONT pick up Negima. I would probably die from how draggy it would feel rather than enjoy and laugh my way through it.

I's - Antagonist as in the stalker or the film industry(dont know what to call them..)? I felt that it was a realistic request that Isai made....will leave it at that since I would end up talking about the whole storyline if I kept going.
Ichigo100% - Totally different than Love Hina. I didnt get that draggy feeling at all(even though alot of people would love to beg to differ). Reason might be that I read it in ONE sitting on contrary to waiting chapter by chapter to come out(I read Love Hina in one sitting as well). The flow of the manga didnt seize for me and the characters all develop slowly but surely over the course of the manga. Comparing how they where in the beginning to how they where in the end of the manga, they are like a new person...Love Hina's characters didnt really change much over the course of the whole manga which disappointed me as well.

I actually agreed with another buddy I met in another forums while discussing Love Hina. Everything after volume 7(dont remember exactly the chapter/volume), when they found out they got accepted to Toudai and Keitaro/Naru learned that they ARE the "promised pairing", would have been a great end with a few things added towards that. Instead of going off to introduced the other characters background information and absurd reasons for wanting Keitaro.....

I agree that the period in time the manga is release makes a difference but Love Hina was release around the same time as I's/Ichigo100%.....if it was release 10 years BEFORE it, then I would might appreciate this work a bit more...
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Old 2007-12-10, 22:16   Link #256
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Love Hina was released in 1998 and ran through 2001.

I"s Pure ran in 2005-2006 (wait that was the anime) ... (I suppose you mean the original I"s manga back from 1997-1999).

Ichigo 100% ran from 2002-2005.

I'm going to guess you mean the original I"s manga which is the only one that did precede Love Hina. Honestly, I don't know WHY Love Hina is groundbreaking but it happened to "catch the wave" and coasted to a level of insane popularity. I remember it was a *huge* deal when the anime production was announced. It also really spurred the idea of voice actresses as idols in themselves with the live tour and whatnot.
So synchronicity, timing, and just lucky seem to be as important as any content merit. As far as American fans.... the manga was one of Tokyopop's early releases and people tend to remember more fondly the first harem manga/anime they've seen (even if its derivative).

Heh, I'm not trying to defend Love Hina as quality --- just that it was in the right place and time for it to rocket. Personally, outside of a couple of the girl's arcs (Motoko, Shinobu) I'm pretty neutral about the rest of the product.
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Old 2007-12-10, 22:45   Link #257
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Love Hina was released in 1998 and ran through 2001.

I"s Pure ran in 2005-2006 (wait that was the anime) ... (I suppose you mean the original I"s manga back from 1997-1999).

Ichigo 100% ran from 2002-2005.

I'm going to guess you mean the original I"s manga which is the only one that did precede Love Hina. Honestly, I don't know WHY Love Hina is groundbreaking but it happened to "catch the wave" and coasted to a level of insane popularity. I remember it was a *huge* deal when the anime production was announced. It also really spurred the idea of voice actresses as idols in themselves with the live tour and whatnot.
So synchronicity, timing, and just lucky seem to be as important as any content merit. As far as American fans.... the manga was one of Tokyopop's early releases and people tend to remember more fondly the first harem manga/anime they've seen (even if its derivative).

Heh, I'm not trying to defend Love Hina as quality --- just that it was in the right place and time for it to rocket. Personally, outside of a couple of the girl's arcs (Motoko, Shinobu) I'm pretty neutral about the rest of the product.
Yes, I was referring to the manga and not the anime since I havent seen any of the animes for I's or Love Hina but I rather not have seen the anime for Ichigo100%(but I wouldnt of picked up Ichigo100% if it wasnt for the anime...).
Thanks for doing the year checks for me.. was going to do it later myself xD. Sadly, I didnt even realize that Ichigo100% ended just over 2years ago...seem alot older than that wow. Does it have something to do with the nudity...yea..it probably did catch the audience more that way blahz. Im just disappointed by how much "HYPE" I was given before I even started the manga. I heard sooo many good reviews about it and just been knocked down HARD. Its just shocking to me why it would arouse so many peoples attention when its at best, considered "AVERAGE".

Do you recommend watching the anime? I heard they portray Shinobu in a better way...more of an actualy competitor in the anime. I highly doubt it would be the first harem/romance anime the audience have ever seen...especially in Japan. I know genres similar to romance are usually frown upon when made into anime since its not as exciting to watch as Fights/Sports....even more as an american myself.

I like Shinobu too and after thinking about the manga some more, I like the way Motoko changed from the beginning of the manga towards the end. The way Motoko was at the end of the manga was quite attractive too..but nothing like Shinobu ^^.
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Old 2007-12-10, 23:53   Link #258
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The anime Love Hina varied greatly from episode to episode ... some were very satisfying, others were "why did I just waste 30 minutes?". The series and OVAs do really come to a satisfactory conclusion and the anime series "climax" is pretty much anime-only and required some leaps of character behavior. The animated character design and animation is not stellar.... but the very first Motoko-focus ep is nice homage to the old Samurai films of the 1930s.

If you've got a few hours to kill, the LH Perfect Collection can be interesting with appropriate fast-forward and such. Its got an un-aired Motoko-focus episode I'm a bit fond of. Of course, I'm biased --- I'll just watch the Motoko/Shinobu segments and zzzzzz through the rest
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Old 2007-12-10, 23:56   Link #259
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blahz thats bad lol... no flow in the anime as well =/...I need a consistant plot going instead of things jumping from one to another with no revelance to each other =/...
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Old 2007-12-11, 00:31   Link #260
Vexx
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I'd come a lot closer to recommending a few series that aren't "harem" as such... like Lovely*Complex, REC, Lamune (based on harem material but collapsed to one path), and such in terms of constantly evolving plot.
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