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View Poll Results: Clannad ~After Story~ - Episode 18 Rating
Perfect 10 333 89.52%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 26 6.99%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 7 1.88%
7 out of 10 : Good 2 0.54%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 4 1.08%
Voters: 372. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-02-15, 04:34   Link #221
Master Chibi
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Well realistically speaking, the show does shit to really portray the realtionship between Tomoya and his father as anything outside of Tomoya hating his ass for screwing up his shoulder and being a drunkard at this point in his life.

Throwing that all away in a 4 minute conversation atop a cliff with a scenic view is, well Clannad being Clannad. It's like getting mad at Nagisa wanting to give birth to Ushio. Sure it's COMPLETE bullshit that they couldn't get to the hospital (among a billion other factors to consider about the situation) but the woman had to be shoved into the UGLIEST conditions possible because, well, that's Clannad being Clannad. There is no viable explanation otherwise.

Oh, you want to make up with your daughter Tomoya? Well, instead of doing it at home, normally, we're going to have you do it in this gigantic, gorgeous field of flowers during the most beautiful sunset you'll ever see in your damn life.

That's Clannad being Clannad.

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Old 2009-02-15, 04:44   Link #222
Snooker
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0/10???Blasphemy!!!Clannad ~After Story~ may be not masterpiece but you are going to insult it."Clannad" is in the same grade with movie of "Uwe Boll"!!!Oh,I cann't stand!!!
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Old 2009-02-15, 04:49   Link #223
Ottocycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Chibi View Post
Well realistically speaking, the show does shit to really portray the realtionship between Tomoya and his father as anything outside of Tomoya hating his ass for screwing up his shoulder and being a drunkard at this point in his life.

Throwing that all away in a 4 minute conversation atop a cliff with a scenic view is, well Clannad being Clannad. It's like getting mad at Nagisa wanting to give birth to Ushio. Sure it's COMPLETE bullshit that they couldn't get to the hospital (among a billion other factors to consider about the situation) but the woman had to be shoved into the UGLIEST conditions possible because, well, that's Clannad being Clannad. There is no viable explanation otherwise.

Oh, you want to make up with your daughter Tomoya? Well, instead of doing it at home, normally, we're going to have you do it in this gigantic, gorgeous field of flowers during the most beautiful sunset you'll ever see in your damn life.

That's Clannad being Clannad.

Indeed a post for the realists, I can't agree more. But damn I still love the ep.

There will always be people who'll never suspend their disbelief who'll keep asking why this or that happened, though I don't mind that at all. For me, if it makes for entertaining viewing, why not?
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Old 2009-02-15, 05:16   Link #224
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But sometimes, Lady Luck is just against you.


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Old 2009-02-15, 05:32   Link #225
TenkenXD
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Originally Posted by Beo View Post
Interesting.

Spoiler for It could be thought of as a spoiler:
Lol, yeah i totally spotted that too. Good eye!

Anyways, after ep 16 i really thought I couldn't cry as hard as I did, if not harder than that. Boy was I horribly and sadly mistaken. I might've even cried a little bit harder cuz i love the ushio arc. Life is so good right now. Lol. It ended a good Valentine's day.
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Old 2009-02-15, 06:03   Link #226
OmegaPhlare
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Originally Posted by achirist View Post
I can't believe how ridiculous, stupid, and insane the scene with Tomoya and his grandmother was. Beyond the conventional morality ignorantly displayed, it is clear to me that Tomoya made the right decision; his father did not. His father was terrible, was an abusive, neglectful, depressive alcoholic, and there really is no excuse for that since he also insisted on taking his child along that road with him and ruining Tomoya's life. This episode tells you that you are supposed to ignore endless years of abuse and hatred in favor of a single moment when the parents were nice. If someone isn't fit to raise a child, then they shouldn't, and shouldn't have to either; but Tomoya has been completely denied an emotional life, first by his father and grandmother, and then by Nagisa's cruel, ignorant decision to insist on having a child when there was a high chance she would not survive with it. Perhaps she could have remembered that Tomoya's mother died when he was very young, and thus that her dying like that could have a huge impact on him, and held back. Perhaps she could have also tried to understand more fully that his father was abusive and stop with the petty moralizing. But no, instead of young people living free lives and experiencing their emotions, we have a shrine to abusive families; and the delusion that because they bought you candy and 'worked hard' (but not at building social change and better working conditions) everything they did to you as a child was excusable.

Tomoya should have fallen in love with another of the girls after Nagisa died, and gone far, far away.
No man, this is a terribly harsh view. You're extremely hateful of people who make mistakes. Tomoya giving Ushio to Sanae and Akio was a good idea because Tomoya was a complete wreck after Nagisa passing away, but Naoyuki keeping Tomoya after his wife died was ALSO a good idea because he understood what it meant to be Tomoya's father.... Well, I mean, that was the whole point of this episode! With your own eyes, watching Tomoya's memories of Naoyuki, you're supposed to see this as true. I'm confounded as to how you are now calling this whole episode bullshit.

Because Tomoya was young, Naoyuki had to stay strong, and he DID stay strong until that year where Tomoya became old enough to choose his own path (able to make sound decisions?). In that same year he had lost many other things, he became aggressive with Tomoya and injured him, then after that regretted this mistake and begun to treat Tomoya like a stranger, ENDING the physical abuse and replacing it with an emotional misunderstanding, which I would not call Naoyuki treating Tomoya as a stranger to be emotional abuse.

The Grandmother says that after Naoyuki lost his wife "still Naoyuki had not fallen into despair". The question now is when did he fall into despair then? I have linked his despair with him becoming alcoholic. Maybe you don't see them as a link and that Naoyuki was alcoholic early after his wife died. I cannot believe that Naoyuki was an abusive alcoholic until after the time that he had lost the other things dear to him. Why in the hell would his mother want to be proud of him if it were the case that Naoyuki was always an abusive, drunk, asshole? We don't know if Naoyuki necessarily broke Tomoya's shoulder around the same time that he lost everything and became alcoholic, it could be that he was an abusive alcoholic for years before the actual incident happened.

I chose to believe that the incident was shortly after the losses where Naoyuki's pain was at a climax (time heals painful memories (my experience), but given very little time, not much has healed yet). But you choose to believe it as the drinking started years before the incident, thus giving Tomoya many years of abuse, where it would have just been better for Naoyuki to forfeit Tomoya to someone else.

Since we don't have the full details we're open to believe whatever we want out of it. If you honestly believe the worst case scenario of Naoyuki abusing Tomoya for many years, then damn it: I have nothing to say about that. I don't like unfit parents as much as the next guy, but I would never believe that the man who took his child home with a smile was an unfit parent.

---

Nagisa was cruel and ignorant to insist on having the child?! Because her death could have had a huge impact on Tomoya?!?

COWARD!!! With %100 of my emotion, at the top of my lungs I yell cowardice! How can you even say that! That Tomoya should never have children because that opened the possibility that it might hurt him any worst than it hurts another person?! It was not a high chance at all, you confuse the certainty of it happening in a drama series with the small chance of it happening in a more realistic scenario. The characters contained in this drama make decisions based on a realistic scenario to them. Now I live my life every day to its fullest as most people here would also say about themselves; we don't know when something bad will happen but that will never stop us from leaving our safe place in order to make ourselves and the people we love happy. Don't live in a bubble just because you're afraid something bad will happen... I don't need to tell you this shit, since you know it already, but there I said it anyways.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm making an emotional argument here instead of a logical one, but there are things that I just am not good enough to string into a logical argument yet. If Nagisa held back her desire to have the child or aborted the child very early, I would have lost all respect for her, and she would be no different from that day at the bottom of the hill. I don't care how cute she is or how loving she is had been up to that point, she would have been nothing but a coward at life.
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Old 2009-02-15, 06:27   Link #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaPhlare View Post
Nagisa was cruel and ignorant to insist on having the child?! Because her death could have had a huge impact on Tomoya?!?

COWARD!!! With %100 of my emotion, at the top of my lungs I yell cowardice! How can you even say that! That Tomoya should never have children because that opened the possibility that it might hurt him any worst than it hurts another person?! It was not a high chance at all, you confuse the certainty of it happening in a drama series with the small chance of it happening in a more realistic scenario. The characters contained in this drama make decisions based on a realistic scenario to them. Now I live my life every day to its fullest as most people here would also say about themselves; we don't know when something bad will happen but that will never stop us from leaving our safe place in order to make ourselves and the people we love happy. Don't live in a bubble just because you're afraid something bad will happen... I don't need to tell you this shit, since you know it already, but there I said it anyways.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm making an emotional argument here instead of a logical one, but there are things that I just am not good enough to string into a logical argument yet. If Nagisa held back her desire to have the child or aborted the child very early, I would have lost all respect for her, and she would be no different from that day at the bottom of the hill. I don't care how cute she is or how loving she is had been up to that point, she would have been nothing but a coward at life.
OmegaPhlare, no offense, but for some strange perverse reason I find your post hilarious.

On the other hand, I agree with the above statement completely. To quote the beautiful song "The Rose": "And the soul afraid of dying: that never learns to live." In other words, if you are perpetually afraid of failing, you fail at life.

A cookie for you.
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Old 2009-02-15, 06:30   Link #228
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Originally Posted by Master Chibi View Post
Well realistically speaking, the show does shit to really portray the realtionship between Tomoya and his father as anything outside of Tomoya hating his ass for screwing up his shoulder and being a drunkard at this point in his life.

Throwing that all away in a 4 minute conversation atop a cliff with a scenic view is, well Clannad being Clannad. It's like getting mad at Nagisa wanting to give birth to Ushio. Sure it's COMPLETE bullshit that they couldn't get to the hospital (among a billion other factors to consider about the situation) but the woman had to be shoved into the UGLIEST conditions possible because, well, that's Clannad being Clannad. There is no viable explanation otherwise.

Oh, you want to make up with your daughter Tomoya? Well, instead of doing it at home, normally, we're going to have you do it in this gigantic, gorgeous field of flowers during the most beautiful sunset you'll ever see in your damn life.

That's Clannad being Clannad.

Can't you just sit back and enjoy what's on screen, instead of picking at absolutly everything in this show?
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Old 2009-02-15, 06:36   Link #229
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Can't you just sit back and enjoy what's on screen, instead of picking at absolutly everything in this show?
If you didn't check the poll votes, Master Chibi gave this episode a 10/10. Master Chibi's just poking fun at the show they like for the heck of it. It's a good quality to be able to make fun of yourself or your favorite shows. (and that's something I'm not able to do, by the way)
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Old 2009-02-15, 06:36   Link #230
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Can't you just sit back and enjoy what's on screen, instead of picking at absolutly everything in this show?
But that's Chibi being Chibi.
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Old 2009-02-15, 07:47   Link #231
Ithekro
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Can someone with an answer to why the widescreen translations of the episodes have stopped at episode 11 please go to the Episode 11 thread and answer the question?

Those that don't want to be spoiled and yet want a widescreen version won't come up here to post the question, so I post in their stead...I just don't have an answer.
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Old 2009-02-15, 09:34   Link #232
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Ah, this episode was so sad. Tomoya has a different perspective of his father now.
9/10
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Old 2009-02-15, 10:45   Link #233
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Old 2009-02-15, 11:12   Link #234
Vegard Aune
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Yeah, that look is pretty common in KyoAni's shows, isn't it? Misuzu was dressed like that in Air episode 7, too.
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Old 2009-02-15, 12:39   Link #235
Dop
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GodDAMMIT KyoAni - stop making tears roll down my face!

Seriously, when Ushio said the toy was special because it was the first thing her daddy had bought her, I started weeping, then again in the train scene...
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Old 2009-02-15, 12:49   Link #236
kk2extreme
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there are 2 of the 1/10, this makes me mad, gr... , sorry a bit too sad to be mad

wonder why didnt shio-chan call sanae and akio grandpa and grandma
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Old 2009-02-15, 14:05   Link #237
SaintessHeart
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there are 2 of the 1/10, this makes me mad, gr... , sorry a bit too sad to be mad

wonder why didnt shio-chan call sanae and akio grandpa and grandma
Akio would just up and die. Seriously this episode is pretty sweet. And it seems that Key never fails to deliver Clannad with a less than 8/10 for me (the previous season's OVA is a different issue).
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Old 2009-02-15, 16:06   Link #238
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You know, I really gotta come back and say just how great Sanae is. Not telling her granddaughter anything about her own daughter; not letting her cry unless it was in the bathroom or in Tomoya's arms. That's why Tomoya thought she was being unexpectedly strict. Because it was. Such a thing is totally out of character for her; I'm sure it really hurt her deep down. But she did it all for Tomoya's sake. In her mind: "Only papa can talk about mama. Only in his arm's is it OK to cry." Even though she loved and cherished Ushio, Sanae refused to try and fill the void where Tomoya--the father--was supposed to be...because she believed he would return. God, I love this MILF.
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Old 2009-02-15, 16:11   Link #239
Proto
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She's not a MILF anymore though
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Old 2009-02-15, 16:24   Link #240
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GodDAMMIT KyoAni - stop making tears roll down my face!

Seriously, when Ushio said the toy was special because it was the first thing her daddy had bought her, I started weeping, then again in the train scene...
KyoAni is the only studio right now that got me teary eye.
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