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Old 2011-09-30, 21:26   Link #121
DragoZERO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Depression is a contagious disease, it tends to spread from one person to another.
I'm sorry... did you just say that a psychological disease, often caused by a chemical imbalance and triggered by a major life evet, is contagious!? Please educate yourself and try again.
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Old 2011-09-30, 21:39   Link #122
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I'm sorry... did you just say that a psychological disease, often caused by a chemical imbalance and triggered by a major life evet, is contagious!? Please educate yourself and try again.
Bad moods are contagious. Depression ... isn't.
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Old 2011-09-30, 22:05   Link #123
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I'm sorry... did you just say that a psychological disease, often caused by a chemical imbalance and triggered by a major life evet, is contagious!? Please educate yourself and try again.
I should have added open and closed inverted commas to the word "disease". I was meaning to say that it can psychologically affect others, not that it will result in a termination of life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
Bad moods are contagious. Depression ... isn't.
I am not sure about that. There is a psychologist I once spoke to who told me about how a woman went into depression after a miscarriage, and the husband followed suit after a year. I am more inclined to think that depression is the long term effect of extreme sadness being ingrained in a person, then eventually resulting in the person being unable to let go of the sadness due to he event.

Personally, I don't really believe that drugs or psychotherapy can aid in depression. Depression drugs helps as much as cough syrup in alcohol, it leads to addiction and probable health problems, and psychotherapy may create a crutch mentality. A change of environment and the people around the sufferer works more wonders, or even better, the sufferer decides to take up arms against his current situation.
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Old 2011-09-30, 22:38   Link #124
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I am not sure about that. There is a psychologist I once spoke to who told me about how a woman went into depression after a miscarriage, and the husband followed suit after a year. I am more inclined to think that depression is the long term effect of extreme sadness being ingrained in a person, then eventually resulting in the person being unable to let go of the sadness due to the event.
I can foresee that as a scenario. But that's more a case of empathy and depression in one person leading to general familial strife, which of course can lead to depression in the other.

But it's not contagion per se. For instance I might be depressed, and hang out with friends, and they won't get depressed because of me. You have to be very closely tied to someone to get depressed with them.

Quote:
Personally, I don't really believe that drugs or psychotherapy can aid in depression. Depression drugs helps as much as cough syrup in alcohol, it leads to addiction and probable health problems, and psychotherapy may create a crutch mentality. A change of environment and the people around the sufferer works more wonders, or even better, the sufferer decides to take up arms against his current situation.
If you can take up arms against you situation you're not really depressed.

One of depression's primary characteristics is a lack of motivation to do anything. Changes of environment/people can help, but only if the causes of the depression are rooted there. Often you can move to another place, and your depression moves with you. In fact, when I was on my university exchange my depression came back, despite that being a change of scene and people. It got worse when I got home though.

As for drugs and psychotherapy, depression does have a physical and mental basis. For one thing it has physical symptoms, during my depression I was perpetually tired, often slept for 10-12 hours a night, or couldn't sleep at all. Furthermore I couldn't concentrate on anything. One of the weird things is that I went through a bowel infection while at the height of a depressive period (that had lasted for a year or two prior), and I came out of it without my depression. Given that I hadn't really gone through any mental or social events, I can only conclude something about the illness physically "fixed" me. A bizarre event. Furthermore, drugs can affect mental processes anyway (how bout some of that LSD?), it's reasonable to assume that drugs could effect something like Depression. I personally avoid anti-depressants, I think they're over prescribed.

As for Psychotherapy, I think it works, primarily as a means to confront your issues, and to also talk to someone. It doesn't really become a crutch at all, because most people don't go to a psychotherapist for more then a month or two at a time.

Depression is often caused by the fact that a person can't talk to the people around them about issues they're worried about, and psychotherapy fixes that by giving you that person. If a person has such a person to talk to already, they probably don't need a therapist. Of course those people probably won't develop depression either. Most of the people who develop depression are socially isolated in one way or another, and the depression only makes it worse, as it destroys your motivation to go out and socialize, and makes it worse by also deepening any anxieties or shyness you might have, filling you with feelings of worthlessness about how people "wouldn't want to talk to someone like you".

Depression is characterized by a number of such reinforcing cycles. Depressed people can not help themselves, as depression destroys your ability to help yourself.

On the flip side, depression usually gives you a certain sense of clarity about the world around you. If you don't descend into paranoia, you can usually perceive things as they really are, not how society perceives them. In fact that's often another cause for depression. You realise life is meaningless and pointless, and that you may as well not be alive. And really when you get right down to it, life is meaningless. Unless you believe in God I guess. But then, the depressed person might ask "Where is god? Why can't I see him? What's wrong with me?"
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Old 2011-09-30, 23:07   Link #125
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
If you can take up arms against you situation you're not really depressed.
You have a point there. Maybe the next time somebody equate my disinterest in interacting with people to depression, I should draw my pen and put it at their throat while asking, "I don't know if I have depression or not. Can I stab you to find out? I promise I won't let blood splatter all over the place like a work of art!" in my usual yan tone when I get pissed.

Quote:
One of depression's primary characteristics is a lack of motivation to do anything. Changes of environment/people can help, but only if the causes of the depression are rooted there. Often you can move to another place, and your depression moves with you. In fact, when I was on my university exchange my depression came back, despite that being a change of scene and people. It got worse when I got home though.

As for drugs and psychotherapy, depression does have a physical and mental basis. For one thing it has physical symptoms, during my depression I was perpetually tired, often slept for 10-12 hours a night, or couldn't sleep at all. Furthermore I couldn't concentrate on anything. One of the weird things is that I went through a bowel infection while at the height of a depressive period (that had lasted for a year or two prior), and I came out of it without my depression. Given that I hadn't really gone through any mental or social events, I can only conclude something about the illness physically "fixed" me. A bizarre event. Furthermore, drugs can affect mental processes anyway (how bout some of that LSD?), it's reasonable to assume that drugs could effect something like Depression. I personally avoid anti-depressants, I think they're over prescribed.
I was diagnosed with mild dyslexia at 20, a very late diagnosis. They tried to prescribe me drugs, but I told the shrink to save it.

Whatever brain problems I have, I don't want to let it get in the way of my life. What I can't do, I won't - I would do something that I can or I have never tried before.

Quote:
As for Psychotherapy, I think it works, primarily as a means to confront your issues, and to also talk to someone. It doesn't really become a crutch at all, because most people don't go to a psychotherapist for more then a month or two at a time.

Depression is often caused by the fact that a person can't talk to the people around them about issues they're worried about, and psychotherapy fixes that by giving you that person. If a person has such a person to talk to already, they probably don't need a therapist. Of course those people probably won't develop depression either. Most of the people who develop depression are socially isolated in one way or another, and the depression only makes it worse, as it destroys your motivation to go out and socialize, and makes it worse by also deepening any anxieties or shyness you might have, filling you with feelings of worthlessness about how people "wouldn't want to talk to someone like you".

Depression is characterized by a number of such reinforcing cycles. Depressed people can not help themselves, as depression destroys your ability to help yourself.

On the flip side, depression usually gives you a certain sense of clarity about the world around you. If you don't descend into paranoia, you can usually perceive things as they really are, not how society perceives them. In fact that's often another cause for depression. You realise life is meaningless and pointless, and that you may as well not be alive. And really when you get right down to it, life is meaningless. Unless you believe in God I guess. But then, the depressed person might ask "Where is god? Why can't I see him? What's wrong with me?"
Actually all forms of mental disorders allow that to happen - the difference in perspective is often the root cause of absolutely normal but weird-behaving people being marginalised. If I am a moe addict (though not a pervert), and have a way below average EQ, and have no interest in social interaction (other than for material gains), it doesn't mean that I have some sort of mental problem - that is just my character and should just be simply considered eccentric.

Sometimes I wonder if the DSM-IV has been abused by private practice to help clear their drug warehouse, a friend's sister, who is quiet and shy, is sent to a shrink after her teacher raised an alarm of her not interacting in school despite being in the third year of secondary school, branding her as antisocial. They gave her all sorts of stuff to take, which her brother recommended against and introduced her to anime and manga.

She has her own circle of friends now and is graduating from polytechnic. Unfortunately, she discovered the dark side of Japanese popular culture - yaoi.

We should never have let her touched Persona 4. Or Gundam Seed. Or Gundam Seed Destiny.
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Old 2011-09-30, 23:44   Link #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
For me, talking about it helps a lot. When I'm depressed it's very easy for me to retreat inwards and see no one, becoming a recluse. In that kind of circumstance, when I speak to nobody for days, maybe even weeks at time, it's very easy to slip into quasi-delusional thinking (it's extremely difficult to explain).

When I talk to someone about my troubles it grounds me in reality again. It allows me to let off steam. The great thing about shrinks is that they don't judge you or anything, doesn't matter how weird you are, or whatever you come out with, they'll sit and listen, and they'll ask you the right questions to try and help you get to the root of your problems.

It also helps relieve the loneliness, just having someone listen really takes a load off.

...
That makes sense. When I was depressed I was probably barely a preteen, so of course I was always surrounded by my family. I never felt any real loneliness, just a lot of helplessness. And I think I understand what you mean with the delusional thinking. That seems to happen when someone has zero communication with others for too long. When I first moved out on my own, I didn't get the internet set up for a few weeks and didn't talk to anyone over the phone or in person, and I eventually started noticing that my thoughts were becoming somewhat extreme and illogical. I can only imagine what would happen if someone did that when they were depressed.

I guess I just wasn't the type of person that needed therapy to begin with. I always had someone I could talk to, and my depression was initially caused by chronic medical problems that nothing and nobody could/knew how to fix.
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Old 2011-10-01, 06:10   Link #127
DonQuigleone
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Originally Posted by AHH View Post
That makes sense. When I was depressed I was probably barely a preteen, so of course I was always surrounded by my family. I never felt any real loneliness, just a lot of helplessness. And I think I understand what you mean with the delusional thinking. That seems to happen when someone has zero communication with others for too long. When I first moved out on my own, I didn't get the internet set up for a few weeks and didn't talk to anyone over the phone or in person, and I eventually started noticing that my thoughts were becoming somewhat extreme and illogical. I can only imagine what would happen if someone did that when they were depressed.
Exactly it. When you're alone for an extended period, heck even if you have a small number of shallow conversations but nothing "deep", it's very easy to slip into bizarre thinking patterns.

The anime "Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei", the Tatami Galaxy and "Welcome to the NHK" all feature those patterns of thought. It feels good to laugh about it, but the sort of stuff in those shows is what a lot of people descend into. It's often at once deep, panicky, pathetic and frivolous all at once. Anime as a medium probably has a better track record then most of depicting depression.

I'd reccomend against "self medicating" with alcohol or drugs. I can only imagine that leads to nothing good. It's one reason I abstain from both, I don't want to get sucked into a cycle of taking them next time I get low.

It's no coincidence that a lot of the worst drug addicts suffer from mental illness. When you're depressed you'll do anything to escape. You'll try and run away from your problems as much as possible.
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Old 2011-10-10, 22:00   Link #128
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The anxiety really changes me all the time when something going wrong to me like my XBOX 360 console is gonna get 3 red lights, got bashed by someone even on public places NOT just internet place, even watching crappy movies @ animes like Gundam & Fullmetal Alchemist series till it gets me on my nerves.
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Old 2011-10-10, 22:03   Link #129
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Your Xbox 360 is getting the red virus of doom possibly Would be best to get it checked it out so you don't encounter the same fate I had when my 360 got it. (I didn't know about the warranty thing and just threw it away when it got infected)
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Old 2012-06-11, 11:34   Link #130
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I am going to share my views on depression not as one who has/has been/had experienced it, but rather, as an outsider. For years, I have seen how depression tears my childhood friend apart. She used to be cheerful and active but her weight shot up when puberty hits and she has bigger hips and all. Her self-confidence is shattered bad, and she couldn't help but to think that people talk behind her back/dislike her/making fun of her. She feels very unwanted. She slowly changes. It's hard to get through her. She is morose most of the time, and I have a hard time myself trying to deal with her. Initially, I thought that it won't be difficult and that it's just a normal phase every teenager goes through. Even I myself has experienced it before, so she shouldn't be any different. Perhaps that is the same assumption that her parents and the rest of her friends have, because they never really talk about it. I have tried a couple of times talking to my friends about it but it shocks me how they are so prejudiced against it. To them, depression denotes disgrace and weakness. I am ashamed to say that I did not try to stand up for my friend then. In the beginning, I was often frustrated at her to the extent that I felt like throttling her. What is there to be depressed about? Why can't she just get out of the damn hole called depression and try to live like a normal person? It is only in the recent years that I realize this is precisely why stigma associated with depression exists. It's because people who have not experienced serious depression will never be able to understand the feeling of those who do-the feeling of hopelessness and abandonment.

It's been 9 years since then and I am still struggling trying to reach out to my friend. Very often, she will be cheerful for a short period of time before she relapses into her depressive self. Not talking to anyone, keeping to herself, always staring and thinking. When this happens, it goes on for days. On certain occasions, I almost gave up(she cut her wrist a few times before) but when she smiles and laughs, it means the world to me. What I am trying to say is, never take it lightly, be patient and try not judge, no matter how difficult it is. They can only recover with the help of their loved ones.
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Old 2012-06-11, 12:21   Link #131
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@MUAHAHAHAHAHA If I undestand correctly the source of your friends depression her extra weight. The solution is obvious (albeit not easy), get her into a gym. She will not see results in a couple of days (and probably not even in a couple of weeks since her metabolism has shifter into slow gear), but if she has the will (and the support from friend/family) she can loose all that weight. Also (just in case), if she think she will gain muscle like on the magazines, that is like saying you will become smart just because you read one book, to get bulging muscles you need years of training (8 hours a day) with special nutrition and (sadly in many cases) consumption of certain chemicals whose intake should be supervised by a doctor.So she can be at ease, she might get stronger while loosing weight, but the only thing people will notice is that she looks nice in swimwear.
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Old 2012-06-11, 12:37   Link #132
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Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
@MUAHAHAHAHAHA If I undestand correctly the source of your friends depression her extra weight. The solution is obvious (albeit not easy), get her into a gym. She will not see results in a couple of days (and probably not even in a couple of weeks since her metabolism has shifter into slow gear), but if she has the will (and the support from friend/family) she can loose all that weight. Also (just in case), if she think she will gain muscle like on the magazines, that is like saying you will become smart just because you read one book, to get bulging muscles you need years of training (8 hours a day) with special nutrition and (sadly in many cases) consumption of certain chemicals whose intake should be supervised by a doctor.So she can be at ease, she might get stronger while loosing weight, but the only thing people will notice is that she looks nice in swimwear.
That's the initial source. She's slim now but she has been experiencing depression for so long that it's no longer about weight problem. It's something that even she couldn't explain.
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Old 2012-06-11, 12:39   Link #133
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I'd say the best advice I can give is that she should see a professional, either a counselor or psychologist.

There's a lot of things she's probably not comfortable saying to close friends/family, and on the flipside, her friends/family (who have likely not experienced depression the way she has) will not understand what depression is like, the way a shrink would.


From my own experience, going to a psychologist didn't cure me of my own deppression related problems, but it helped me start comfronting them in a more constructive manner.

But she also needs to have an underlying willingness to solve her problems, rather then wallow in them. This might sound strange, considering how unpleasant depression is, but some depressed people don't want help solving their problems. Either they think they're too worthless to deserve it, that no one understands them, or that there is no means to lift their melancholy.

There's also a lot of drama that goes on. The more dramatic depressives are not actually the ones at risk, though. It's the subdued ones, who tell you nonchalantly that they're going to commit suicide, they're the ones you really have to worry about. Not to say the dramatic ones aren't at risk, but when push comes to shove, they don't usually carry through, their threats were made primarily to garner pity (which is pathetic, but pretty typical).

EDIT: @mangamuscle: that sort of thing doesn't work. Depression is usually existential in it's origin, not practical. Practical solutions don't achieve anything. The solution to depression lies in the depressed person's head. There is no other real way to solve depression (of course, drugs work too...)
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Old 2012-06-11, 12:42   Link #134
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The worrying thing that bothers me is that whenever someone I know is feeling down and has an issue with something, it's easy to think and give them a logical answer. Yet, whenever I encounter an issue and have a subsequent downer, I just never know my own answer.

Keep in touch with friends, you will find the true ones who really help you with anything.
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Old 2012-06-11, 12:46   Link #135
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When I think about depression, I think of it as a chronic neurological disorder moreso than a psychological one, even though psychological factors are clearly at play. I believe it's probably another manifestation of poor diet in people who are genetically susceptible, and there's plenty of science which hints at this, particularly the strong association with Diabetes.
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Old 2012-06-11, 13:11   Link #136
DonQuigleone
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Originally Posted by Kakashi View Post
When I think about depression, I think of it as a chronic neurological disorder moreso than a psychological one, even though psychological factors are clearly at play. I believe it's probably another manifestation of poor diet in people who are genetically susceptible, and there's plenty of science which hints at this, particularly the strong association with Diabetes.
I don't agree, though there's certainly a physical element to it.

If anyone wants my view on depression, I've typed it up already in my responses in the last two pages of this thread, which were written 9 months back. My opinion on the matter hasn't changed.

One thing that has to be stressed is that depression encompasses many things, everyone's depression is different.

I don't think diet has much to do with it, diet can leads to poor moods and low energy, but not full depression. It might aggravate depression though.


If any of you want to know what depression feels like, I'd recommend watching anime like Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, Welcome to the NHK, and the Tatami Galaxy.

Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei is primarily comical and not particularly realistic, but the thinking of the main character (Itoshiki Nozomu) with it's mixture of melodrama, paranoia and obsession (with seemingly minor things) is quite typical of Depression. Koji Kumeta (the mangaka) must have gone through depression at some point, and channelled it into his writing, because he really nails it. The side characters also show a range of mental illnesses and derangements, though not depression.

Welcome to the NHK is fairly realistic, the main character (whose name escapes me) shows pretty typical depressive behaviour, stemming from his long period of isolation. The ending is a bit iffy though.

The Tatami Galaxy is a milder case, but the main character does show a lot of typical behaviour, he runs away from his problems, he blames everyone (but also himself), and he fixates on an ideal, non-existent world, while failing to appreciate his own, and the people around him.

It's notable that all the above are to a greater or lesser extent comedies, depression is actually a lot funnier then many people with no experience of it realise (at least in hindsight). In fact, I believe the statistics on comedians is that they're much more likely to be depressives or manic depressives then the general population.

There's also anime that don't depict depression directly, but were clearly written by someone who was currently depressed, the most famous of which is neon genesis evangelion, with it's very empty, nihilistic world.
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Old 2012-06-11, 19:44   Link #137
hero147
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I do get depressed quite often, whenever I think about the past (nostalgia) and just life in general. Life is usually pretty hectic day to day and often doesn't give me a chance to reflect on my own life. I guess, one could say it keeps my mind preoccupied from all the sad things that I don't want to think about.

It was a pretty slow day for me today. The house was empty (I'm so lonely!!) and there wasn't much to do. =X. And voila, I've been pretty sad the whole day.
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Old 2012-06-11, 20:17   Link #138
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I rarely get depress.

Anyway, if I get depress, I eat a lot in front of my netbook watching anime...
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Old 2012-06-12, 09:15   Link #139
Miko Miko
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I do get depressed quite often, whenever I think about the past (nostalgia) and just life in general. Life is usually pretty hectic day to day and often doesn't give me a chance to reflect on my own life. I guess, one could say it keeps my mind preoccupied from all the sad things that I don't want to think about.

It was a pretty slow day for me today. The house was empty (I'm so lonely!!) and there wasn't much to do. =X. And voila, I've been pretty sad the whole day.
I feel like this a lot. But I think feeling depressed and sad are two completely different things and people get confused between them. When I feel nostalgic it makes me sad for quite a while. When I have a boring day or I feel ill, it makes me sad. But to me depression is a sadness so deep it won't go away.

One day I can feel totally sad and the next I feel better. That isn't depression, it's sadness. Whereas being depressed is like being trapped in a hole and even if you can't pinpoint what's wrong you just feel down and tired continuously.
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Old 2012-06-12, 11:39   Link #140
kaizerknight01
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To those who are suffering the internal misery that is called depression ( especially to the severe ) , have the will to be positive, never give in to the negativity of life that at throws at you , hang strong.

have on treatment for the x numbers of years, the situation is more manageable but it does arise on occasion ( life stress event )
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