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Old 2010-10-05, 21:35   Link #141
GDB
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Originally Posted by Moczo View Post
Though again... she's certainly going to be plot critical, but I kind of want all the girls to shine, so I'm not sure where I'm going.
If you don't mind the suggestion, perhaps incorporate a way for Ilya to contract with Saber, producing Saber Lily? The only real backstory for Saber Lily is she has Avalon (easily done with Shirou around) and Caliburn instead of Excalibur. Not sure how to go about doing it, but since Shirou doesn't make her Lily, it might as well be Ilya to do it!
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Old 2010-10-05, 22:39   Link #142
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If you don't mind the suggestion, perhaps incorporate a way for Ilya to contract with Saber, producing Saber Lily? The only real backstory for Saber Lily is she has Avalon (easily done with Shirou around) and Caliburn instead of Excalibur. Not sure how to go about doing it, but since Shirou doesn't make her Lily, it might as well be Ilya to do it!
To be honest, I never really understood the major differences between Saber and Saber Lily... aren't they really the same, just with different powers and appearances? Or am I wrong?
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Old 2010-10-05, 23:06   Link #143
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Okay, Chapter Two is up on FF.net. For those who prefer to click a link before reading.
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Old 2010-10-06, 00:03   Link #144
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I know I said I'd wait a few days.

I got impatient.

Spoiler for Chaos Theory, Chapter 2:


Spoiler for Author's Note:


Chapter One and the prologue can be found here. Or just, y'know... scroll up the page. They're right there.
Usually I considered patience as a virtue, but hey! More Chaos Theory!

With her not gunning for Shirou (for now), I wonder what Ilya's role will be? Rin's replacement?

It also amused me on how Saber goes "You have done well, Milord" over Shirou's silence. Wonder what her reaction about Ilya would be...

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Though again... she's certainly going to be plot critical, but I kind of want all the girls to shine, so I'm not sure where I'm going.
All girls? So would Rider evade her usual "first to die" streak? It's not that implausible, actually...
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Old 2010-10-06, 06:23   Link #145
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Oh, you know... all H-game protagonists have a lolicon streak. I personally find it very telling that during the 'imprisonment' scene in Fate, when most normal people would have been thinking "Oh God, she's going to kill me and make a mask of my flesh", Shirou was thinking about how 'warm and alive' she felt. I mean, she was originally the fourth romance option for a reason.
It just seems weird to me, and she fits in much better as a sister. And, it's notable that Nasu cut that route, presumably because he couldn't find a way to make it work properly.

Quote:
That said, I'm not sure what I'm doing with the romance aspect of the story, or if I'll just... gloss over it.
Well, you can probably guess which pairing I'm going to want....

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And if I want to make a happy ending (and I'm a sucker for a happy ending), it's basically required that Ilya gets a new body or it's not really happy.
Yeah, definitely. Well, not truly happy, anyway, because it would mean that Ilya dies a year later. It'd still be happier than most of the FSN endings (even for her), but I would agree that Ilya does deserve a proper happy ending and a proper life, because her life has sucked up to now (well, except for the first eight years...).

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She's a pretty popular character who dies in every route but one, where she will shortly... die. Not surprising her fans want me to give her a storyline all her own.
Well, I don't object to the idea of giving her her own story, but I would say that it works better if she has a platonic relationship with Shirou, like in HF. A romantic relationship just doesn't seem to fit, and it requires a lot more development than a platonic relationship would.

Though again... she's certainly going to be plot critical, but I kind of want all the girls to shine, so I'm not sure where I'm going.

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To be honest, I never really understood the major differences between Saber and Saber Lily... aren't they really the same, just with different powers and appearances? Or am I wrong?
Saber Lily is, IIRC, a version of Saber from a universe where she was openly female in her life. But, honestly, she's just an alternate costume for Saber in the fighting games, so her backstory isn't really well-developed....

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All girls? So would Rider evade her usual "first to die" streak? It's not that implausible, actually...
Well, she evades it in HF, for one thing, and her evading it is necessary for Sakura to be involved too (and, since Saber is automatically involved and involving Sakura also involves Rin, she's the most difficult of the three main heroines to get into the story), so I would imagine that Rider won't die first here.
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Old 2010-10-06, 11:28   Link #146
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All girls? So would Rider evade her usual "first to die" streak? It's not that implausible, actually...
To put it simply: yes. I'm going to be trying to give all the Servants fair screentime. I like the Servants, and so I wish to avoid screwing any of them over. It will be hard (most notably with False Assassin), but I like to think all of them get at least a good scene or two.

And as CL said, Sakura's going to be an important character so it's hard not to use Rider too.

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It just seems weird to me, and she fits in much better as a sister. And, it's notable that Nasu cut that route, presumably because he couldn't find a way to make it work properly.
I always heard he cut it because of a combination of time constraints and not wanting to risk legal troubles over increasingly strict lolicon laws. Big companies don't have as much freedom as little ones, and by the time of FSN Type-Moon wasn't able to get away with the kind of things they did in the Tsukihime/Kagetsu Tohya era. Having more to lose makes you less likely to take risks, and all.

Still, your point stands: It is really awkward to write. It's easy as pie to attach Ilya romantically to Shirou, but not so simple to make the feeling mutual since while he shows occasional signs of attraction in game he's the kind of guy who would rather cut his foot off than admit it even about a more socially acceptable girl. That's the main reason I haven't completely decided yet.


Quote:
Well, you can probably guess which pairing I'm going to want....
Heh, heh... why, you mean that you prefer one girl over the others as a romantic pairing for Shirou? I'd never have guessed

Is it Ayako? I bet it's Ayako.

Last edited by Moczo; 2010-10-06 at 17:40.
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Old 2010-10-06, 22:07   Link #147
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To put it simply: yes. I'm going to be trying to give all the Servants fair screentime. I like the Servants, and so I wish to avoid screwing any of them over. It will be hard (most notably with False Assassin), but I like to think all of them get at least a good scene or two.

And as CL said, Sakura's going to be an important character so it's hard not to use Rider too.
All servants? That would be interesting. Hmm? Does that extends to True Assassin too? Because designing on how he would show up alone might be hard; IIRC he appeared in HF as some kind of replacement for the false one, no?

Ever since Assassin's Creed, I've sometimes imagined True Assassin in Altair's get up

Quote:
Still, your point stands: It is really awkward to write. It's easy as pie to attach Ilya romantically to Shirou, but not so simple to make the feeling mutual since while he shows occasional signs of attraction in game he's the kind of guy who would rather cut his foot off than admit it even about a more socially acceptable girl. That's the main reason I haven't completely decided yet.
Well sibling (non-romantic) love can work too. Especially since this is the words you used to describe their first meeting:
Quote:
… Family.

The moonlight reflected of the odd white hair of the girl as she walked past him, creating a soft, otherworldly glow around her.
Especially since his first impression of her was a little girl . Just an opinion of course; if you think you can write a good romance for them, I'll be interested anyway

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Is it Ayako? I bet it's Ayako.
It's not Taiga, isn't it?
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Old 2010-10-06, 22:27   Link #148
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All servants? That would be interesting. Hmm? Does that extends to True Assassin too? Because designing on how he would show up alone might be hard; IIRC he appeared in HF as some kind of replacement for the false one, no?

Ever since Assassin's Creed, I've sometimes imagined True Assassin in Altair's get up
Zouken is a villain, so True Assassin is kind of a given. And I shall try my hardest to be respectful to him, even though he is, frankly, the only Servant I just completely dislike. His character design is kinda creepy, and that's pretty much the only good thing I have to say about him...

Quote:
Well sibling (non-romantic) love can work too. Especially since this is the words you used to describe their first meeting:


Especially since his first impression of her was a little girl . Just an opinion of course; if you think you can write a good romance for them, I'll be interested anyway
Anyone's first impression of her would be that she's a little girl. He hasn't actually interacted with her yet, really... she was so flustered during their first meeting she hardly spoke.

Oh, I don't even know what I'm doing with them anymore. It originally was not going to be romantic, but now I've had the idea put into my head and I don't know what the Hell I want to do anymore. At least this is going to be a pretty long story, so I have plenty of time to develop the relationship in whatever direction I choose. For now, I'll keep their interactions ambiguous. She has started warming up to him, and that's the first step in however I choose to develop it.


Quote:
It's not Taiga, isn't it?
Perhaps one of those three girls who only appeared in the prologue?
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Old 2010-10-07, 08:09   Link #149
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Zouken is a villain, so True Assassin is kind of a given. And I shall try my hardest to be respectful to him, even though he is, frankly, the only Servant I just completely dislike. His character design is kinda creepy, and that's pretty much the only good thing I have to say about him...
Well, that means getting rid of Caster's Assassin, though, so unless you intend to give him a moment or two of badassery before Zouken uses him to summon TA, you will end up screwing him over.

And, more generally, I find it very hard to see how you can make the war work without screwing over someone. There isn't much of a war unless servants actually die.

Anyone's first impression of her would be that she's a little girl. He hasn't actually interacted with her yet, really... she was so flustered during their first meeting she hardly spoke.

Quote:
Oh, I don't even know what I'm doing with them anymore. It originally was not going to be romantic, but now I've had the idea put into my head and I don't know what the Hell I want to do anymore. At least this is going to be a pretty long story, so I have plenty of time to develop the relationship in whatever direction I choose. For now, I'll keep their interactions ambiguous. She has started warming up to him, and that's the first step in however I choose to develop it.
Well, like I said, I personally don't like the idea at all. It just seems weird to me. I know she is technically 18, but she both looks and acts like a child, and he clearly sees her as a sister. Plus, she's perfectly happy with that role (in HF, anyway), and the way that he's treated her here would likely re-inforce that impression (since he's been very brotherly to her, and hasn't acted like a creepy paedophile...).
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Old 2010-10-07, 09:08   Link #150
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Well, that means getting rid of Caster's Assassin, though, so unless you intend to give him a moment or two of badassery before Zouken uses him to summon TA, you will end up screwing him over.

And, more generally, I find it very hard to see how you can make the war work without screwing over someone. There isn't much of a war unless servants actually die.
Oh, I know and of course Servants will die; the majority of them, by necessity. But I can at least make sure that none of them, say, die five minutes after entering the plot or anything like that. If nothing else I can try to make sure that everyone has at least one good moment and goes out with some dignity.

As for Assassin... I have a plan for him, and I won't be saying what it is because I'm 99% sure nobody is going to see it coming and I want to keep it a surprise.

Quote:
Well, like I said, I personally don't like the idea at all. It just seems weird to me. I know she is technically 18, but she both looks and acts like a child, and he clearly sees her as a sister. Plus, she's perfectly happy with that role (in HF, anyway), and the way that he's treated her here would likely re-inforce that impression (since he's been very brotherly to her, and hasn't acted like a creepy paedophile...).
*Shrug* Like I said, it will sort of depend on how things develop. I'll write and see how their interactions flow; for now, they're firmly platonic, but they've also barely spoken to each other. If she starts actively pursuing him, things could change... or he could laugh it off as just one of those cute things that kids do, or he could go into complete and total denial, or he could realize he likes her but not want to hurt another girl's feelings, or any number of reactions.
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Old 2010-10-07, 09:13   Link #151
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Okay, so, two brief things of note:

1. As much as I hate to say this, for now Change is going to have to sit quietly on the side and be a good little FSN fic while I try to develop its more annoying and far more demanding baby sister (yes, Rain, here's looking at you). So, that one's going to be sidelined for a little while as I try to straighten out the brat that demands my attention and development.

2. Got this FF.net PM last night for an old fic I had posted on the Beast's Lair forum, back when I was still active there. Makes me kind of guilty, since I had no plans of updating it.

Spoiler for Dark Triad: On Redemption:
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Old 2010-10-07, 09:32   Link #152
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Okay, so, two brief things of note:

1. As much as I hate to say this, for now Change is going to have to sit quietly on the side and be a good little FSN fic while I try to develop its more annoying and far more demanding baby sister (yes, Rain, here's looking at you). So, that one's going to be sidelined for a little while as I try to straighten out the brat that demands my attention and development.

2. Got this FF.net PM last night for an old fic I had posted on the Beast's Lair forum, back when I was still active there. Makes me kind of guilty, since I had no plans of updating it.

Spoiler for Dark Triad: On Redemption:
1) Well, you know me: I'm basically your fanboy at this point. I'll read whichever you feel like writing in because I'm fascinated to see where both go.

2) The people demand more, I guess. All I ask is that if you decide to update this one you link to the rest of the story so I can know what's going on.
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Old 2010-10-07, 09:36   Link #153
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2) The people demand more, I guess. All I ask is that if you decide to update this one you link to the rest of the story so I can know what's going on.
Well, to be honest, I'm sort of debating if I should pick it back up. It was my first real attempt at an FSN fic, and was largely written when I only had knowledge from the anime and manga. So a lot of what I planned for it might contradict canon.
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Old 2010-10-07, 10:39   Link #154
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Well, to be honest, I'm sort of debating if I should pick it back up. It was my first real attempt at an FSN fic, and was largely written when I only had knowledge from the anime and manga. So a lot of what I planned for it might contradict canon.
Well, if it means that the next chapter of 'Rain' gets out more quickly, I'm willing to let the old canon-challenged story stay buried then.
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Old 2010-10-08, 08:10   Link #155
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Sorry for the double post, but... Chaos Theory has gotten put on the FSN Fanfic Recs page on TV Tropes!

I love that site and I love recognition, so this is very nice to hear. But my main reaction is to wonder... just how starved for good stories is this fandom? Nothing has happened yet!

EDIT: Which I am working on changing as we speak. Next chapter should be up later today.

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Old 2010-10-08, 08:33   Link #156
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Well, about 80% of FSN fanfics are based on the anime, and those tend to be awful, due to the author having a total lack of game knowledge. I guess people like the concept. In particular, I don't think there is very much that has Ilya as a more central character (the same applies to Sakura, really), so I guess that Ilya fans are liking it a lot.
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Old 2010-10-08, 08:36   Link #157
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Nothing has happened yet!
Exactly. Nothing incites your imagination like trailers and sneak peeks, no? Besides, your way of writing has the tendency to ignite curiosity
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Old 2010-10-08, 09:21   Link #158
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Fair enough, and well, I shouldn't complain I suppose. People seem to like the idea, so it makes sense... I'm just the sort of person who looks a gift horse in the mouth because I assume that nobody would willingly give me a horse

EDIT: You can tell this chapter is where things start to happen... even with a few paragraphs left to write, it's still twice as long as any of the previous ones. And yet? Still not as wordy as Nasu.

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Old 2010-10-08, 11:03   Link #159
Tiresias
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Well, about 80% of FSN fanfics are based on the anime, and those tend to be awful, due to the author having a total lack of game knowledge. I guess people like the concept.
This too, I guess. I'm a sucker for details ; same reason for me liking Negima...

PS: Made this post mainly so Moczo won't have to double-post for the upcoming chapter
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Old 2010-10-08, 12:18   Link #160
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All right, here we go.

I'm actually nervous; this is the first chapter where Sakura gets some dialogue and development, and I know that if I didn't get her dead-on correct I will be harshly chastised.

Spoiler for Chaos Theory, Chapter Three:


Spoiler for Author's Note:

Last edited by Moczo; 2010-10-08 at 19:58. Reason: Minor Corrections
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