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View Poll Results: Toradora! - Episode 20 Rating
Perfect 10 33 24.63%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 51 38.06%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 29 21.64%
7 out of 10 : Good 12 8.96%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 2.24%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 2.24%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.75%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.49%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-02-21, 17:43   Link #241
Ryuou
進む道は武士道のみ
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Yeah it seems like some of you guys are under the impression that a story has to be written with a male lead that’s too shallow to notice the personality flaws behind the main girl’s pretty face.
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Old 2009-02-21, 17:46   Link #242
miroku2192
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man, now i feel REALLY REALLY bad for ami .

as for the episode, man taiga has made some BIIGGGG improvements, and i thought it was so cute when minorin was like "damn that taiga, damn that taiga damn that taiga" haha.
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Old 2009-02-21, 18:32   Link #243
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuou View Post
Yeah it seems like some of you guys are under the impression that a story has to be written with a male lead that’s too shallow to notice the personality flaws behind the main girl’s pretty face.
Did I say that?

I will say, however, that a lot of stories of this kind only work if the male lead is like that. Which School Days attempted to point out.
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Old 2009-02-21, 19:29   Link #244
DragoZERO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Did I say that?

I will say, however, that a lot of stories of this kind only work if the male lead is like that. Which School Days attempted to point out.
Well, while the protagonist being like that is required what sets most series apart is how quick, if at all, the protagonist wises up. And I hated School Days.
Spoiler for School Days:
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Old 2009-02-21, 21:00   Link #245
Ryuou
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Yeah I thought School Days was horrible also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Did I say that?

I will say, however, that a lot of stories of this kind only work if the male lead is like that. Which School Days attempted to point out.
No you didn't. It was mainly some other members. But I couldn't help but feel that you might have been hinting at that line of thought. My apologizes if you weren’t. I don't think it's the only way to get them to work, but the easiest. The creators are just being lazy with the story telling. The more indecisive and retarded the lead is, the easier it is to tell a story with many options for that lead. But are you trying to say that Toradora! is a harem anime?
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Old 2009-02-21, 21:14   Link #246
Vexx
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Actually, a number of us (including Kaisos) have been working pretty hard to try and get it across that this *isn't* a harem story (which is why the Honey&Clover comparison was brought up, Lov*Com has also been mentioned). Its an ensemble cast story around a core romance based on a novel series. Yet people keep trying to map into the "usual harem simple story line".
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Old 2009-02-21, 21:17   Link #247
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuou View Post
The creators are just being lazy with the story telling. The more indecisive and retarded the lead is, the easier it is to tell a story with many options for that lead. But are you trying to say that Toradora! is a harem anime?
Technically, it's not so much the writers being lazy as they are following tradition.

And Toradora, while not a harem anime per se, is LIKE a harem anime. As in, it has much of the trappings of one.

However, it is written very differently, rather more like a shoujo anime than anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Actually, a number of us (including Kaisos) have been working pretty hard to try and get it across that this *isn't* a harem story (which is why the Honey&Clover comparison was brought up, Lov*Com has also been mentioned). Its an ensemble cast story around a core romance based on a novel series. Yet people keep trying to map into the "usual harem simple story line".
Well, that is because it does have 3 girls all in love with one guy.

But yeah, it's shoujo with a male protagonist.
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Old 2009-02-21, 21:31   Link #248
Ryuou
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I've noticed Lov*Com come up a couple times, but I don't see how it's similiar. I'd say that H&C is a lot closer.

Quote:
Technically, it's not so much the writers being lazy as they are following tradition.

And Toradora, while not a harem anime per se, is LIKE a harem anime. As in, it has much of the trappings of one.

However, it is written very differently, rather more like a shoujo anime than anything else.
Following tradition? That's an interesting way to put it. I still think it's a tradition built on laziness and (unfortunately) success.

I also think it's similar but not at all a harem anime. It's just whenever you have more than 2 characters liking the same character, it's bound to shoot off harem vibes. What trappings are you referring to by the way? Although I'd say it's similar to a harem anime in its appearance and feel at times, the way it's run is quite different.
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Old 2009-02-21, 21:40   Link #249
FeDeR
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Lol ppl, first of all, srry for spoiler. I promise this never gonna happen again.

I was thinking a lot about ToraDora plot, and little features. I came to conclusion that actually authors have now 2 ways: first is to use Minorin character and Ami character to push Ryuji to Taiga, and ensure that Taiga will not run away, second way is really lame IMHO because it is ending with open story leaving all stuff for 2nd season. I can only hope 2nd is not gonna happen. It will just make this anime too long and uninteresting. Look on Death Note - It is as cool as Jennifer Lopes' butt xD and this is all thanks to endng on 32 episode and i might say cool ending.
Also i wanna say why i only recognize taiga x ryuuji ending. Actually i will like this ending most but there are some reasons to think this gonna happen.
First is Taiga now knows her own feelings so she will try to use any chance if she will be given.
Second Minori feelings to Takasu are not as strong as Taiga's, she like him but he didn't play such a HUGE part of her life, so she will also try to push him to Taiga.
Third Ami will push Ryuuji to reveal his feelings and wrk on them. And the last one is that Ryuuji says while talking to Taiga that "It may be a waste effort" which shows us enough clearly that he really wants to get Taiga back to normal life...
So we have 2 characters (Minori, Ami) who will work to make Ryuuji to realise his feelings, one character who firstly gonna push Ryuuji to Minori ( taiga) but something sould happen between Taiga and ami or minori. Some kind of serious talk. So Taiga will also be pushed towards to Ryuuji. And her trying best by herself will remind her of ryuuji more and more so soon she will gonna get herself hurt or go after him. =) Waiting next episodes by the way r they gonna launch it on 25th?
And is it real that they gonna finish it all on 25th of may? if yes it is soooo loooong='( I just fell in love with this romantic comedy. I can't wait!!!
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Old 2009-02-21, 21:49   Link #250
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuou View Post
I've noticed Lov*Com come up a couple times, but I don't see how it's similiar. I'd say that H&C is a lot closer.
Lov*Com's premise is pretty much identical to Toradora's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuou View Post
Although I'd say it's similar to a harem anime in its appearance and feel at times, the way it's run is quite different.
That's what I mean by "trappings".
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Old 2009-02-21, 22:05   Link #251
Ryuou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Lov*Com's premise is pretty much identical to Toradora's.
In what way? In that two people who initially didn’t, grow to eventually fall in love with each other? In that respect sure, but I'd say how it's done and how it feels is very different.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
That's what I mean by "trappings".
I see. I thought you had some specific things on mind. For instance, how Ryuji acts.
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Old 2009-02-21, 22:26   Link #252
4get
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Spoiler for Minori & Fail Whale Mug:
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Old 2009-02-21, 22:33   Link #253
Ryuou
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Haha, I guess I have to say good job for noticing that.
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Old 2009-02-21, 23:18   Link #254
Janifuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voitan View Post
I'm going to assume you're making that statement towards posters in general who haven't gotten a clue from the title of the show yet, and not me.

Otherwise, it'd be a very patronising statement and one not related to my post which I'm assuming Master Chibi got off on for reasons for his own.
If it were directed towards you, I would have quoted you. It was obviously a general statement, so relax.

I don't want to get too in depth as far as my perception of epi 20, other than that to me personally, it felt incredibly awkward and very much un-satisfying. Of anything that I've gained from this episode however, would be much more respect towards Taiga than what I've already had. Shes come such a long way and has grown immensely. It actually makes me a little sad to see her go through such lengths for the sake of Ryuuji and Minori, because honestly, it just does not feel right to me. It doesn't feel right for me personally to witness Ryuuji and Minori together in any way romantically, especially with the way that its being brought about. Without Taiga's constant helping hand and assistance in the match making, Ryuuji has done virtually nothing on his own accord to make things happen between him and Minori, and vise versa with Minori (though with Minori I can partially understand why.) I'm pretty certain he would have no problems taking any initiative to hook up with Minori if it were more than a mere crush, which I personally really think that's all that it amounts to, is a crush. Only problem is for him to realize that himself.

I'm not sure if anyone else has picked up on this as well, and I'm not entirely sure if perhaps the translation might have been off, though during the episode 21 preview you hear Ryuuji say "I have to confess again, even if it's for the sake of Taiga who's supporting me." So wait. Hes pursuing Minori "for" Taiga? Perhaps that's an indication that Ryuuji deep down doesn't want this? I'm wondering what the rest of you might perceive this as.
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Old 2009-02-21, 23:26   Link #255
Ryuou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janifuu View Post
I'm not sure if anyone else has picked up on this as well, and I'm not entirely sure if perhaps the translation might have been off, though during the episode 21 preview you hear Ryuuji say "I have to confess again, even if it's for the sake of Taiga who's supporting me." So wait. Hes pursuing Minori "for" Taiga? Perhaps that's an indication that Ryuuji deep down doesn't want this? I'm wondering what the rest of you might perceive this as.
The translation is a bit off. He's saying that he has to redo his confession for Taiga's sake as well, since she's been helping him so much. As of now, I just see it as him not wanting to waste Taiga's effort to help him and Minori. But it could eventually turn into a slightly twisted thing where he only continues to pursue Minori because of a feeling of indebtedness to Taiga for all her help.
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Old 2009-02-21, 23:37   Link #256
physics223
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I was also thinking he wanted to do it again because Taiga supported him a lot. I doubt he realizes that he's doing it for Taiga, because ... he does like Minori.
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Old 2009-02-21, 23:56   Link #257
Guardian Enzo
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I'm struck watching this episode just how complicated this story is, from a relationship standpoint. Really, it's a bunch of people torn between their own desires and their desire to do the right thing. Despite all good intentions, it's hard not to see this ending badly.

On another note... No anime character this season makes more of an impression with less screen time than Ami. She's a marvel.
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Old 2009-02-22, 05:31   Link #258
-Sho-
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Just watch this episode :

It was unexpected it'll turn like this with Minorin , now she's like before , more happy ?
In any case , Minorin x Ryuji relationship move forward ! In the street it was good ^^
Well , Ryuji "I never thought you'd go that far for Kushieda and me" , so him for Taiga and Kitamura its very very far also . The most episode was Taiga x Kitamura .

Poor Ami , she's a jealous . We definitaly can't go for Ami x Ryuji even though (i think) she'll confess to Ryuji in the field trip as its the last chance .

In the end if Ryuji do his best we can hope a Minorin x Ryuji ending !
But , if Taiga didn't want like in the christmas lost Ryuji , so Taiga x Ryuji ... (i think Taiga will miss him so much since she do herself his cook etc .... )
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Old 2009-02-22, 07:10   Link #259
Jin Kizuite
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Ami Channnnnn~ *sniffles*

She needs more love in this anime. T_T
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Old 2009-02-22, 08:32   Link #260
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She got the universal love (i.e. everyone except Ryuuji), that's more than enough. Awesome episode, I found all the characters to be acting naturally again (with a few side-effects from the lolwtf christmas eve), and I wanna learn who burned down the Okinawa hotel!
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